Knicks · Just a Thought...Is Harrellson the ideal PF of the Future? (page 2)

yellowboy90 wrote:HE does not need to become a love or Anderson type. He just needs to hit the open 15-18 footer and the occasional three. I will wait until next year though and see if he commits to being more fit. That will say a lot.

just because he can shoot doesn't make him a PF. He has much more work to do than just that....
I would love to keep him, it might be possible, heck, I hope he is doing Kevin Love's diet and work out as we speak so he can play more PF/C.

ChuckBuck wrote:If Jorts gets rid of the tire around his waist, improves his conditioning and stamina, retains his defensive instincts and improves some more, gain some consistency on offense, sure he "can" be the ideal PF of the Future. As of right now this moment, he is pencilled in as the ideal backup PF of the Future.

Yes. Jorts really needs to work on his conditioning this off-season. His jumper isn't quite good enough yet for him to rely on it as his primary weapon and he's alway getting his layups blocked.

BigDaddyG wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Jorts gets rid of the tire around his waist, improves his conditioning and stamina, retains his defensive instincts and improves some more, gain some consistency on offense, sure he "can" be the ideal PF of the Future. As of right now this moment, he is pencilled in as the ideal backup PF of the Future.

Yes. Jorts really needs to work on his conditioning this off-season. His jumper isn't quite good enough yet for him to rely on it as his primary weapon and he's alway getting his layups blocked.

True, true. BUT he has TOUCH at the rim. I can't stress that enough. If he can learn to read the defense better and learn a few post moves too, he could be an effective bench weapon.

Yeah he could do a nice Zbo imitation in a year or two. Reminds me more of Rasheed Wallace though with that range. Kevin Love? I don't know about that one, that's a lot of work to get there.

gunsnewing wrote:Can we trade Amare for David Lee my favorite Knick during the Dismal Years

hah, I still remember getting reamed here for saying we'd be better off keeping Lee (pre amare trade). Guys went at me like I was a total idiot and now look at where we are.

I wish we could get Lee for Amare but, right now Lee's value is higher than Amare's which, is scary.
As bad as Lee was on defense, he could and did rebound and gave us a double/double every night

I think if he had longer arms, better conditioning, better vertical, was black, better handle, had better BB IQ,
was part jewish, some tats, was hungrier, went to tim grovers, got married, got arrested, was not ADD, was Asian, stayed in college longer, was brazilian, read the bible more, put on weight, had smaller feet, worked on his shot, passed the ball, got back on defense, and blocked more shots he'd be great.

Ideal PF of the future? I don't know if he is in the rotation going forward!

Nalod wrote:I think if he had longer arms, better conditioning, better vertical, was black, better handle, had better BB IQ,
was part jewish, some tats, was hungrier, went to tim grovers, got married, got arrested, was not ADD, was Asian, stayed in college longer, was brazilian, read the bible more, put on weight, had smaller feet, worked on his shot, passed the ball, got back on defense, and blocked more shots he'd be great.

Ideal PF of the future? I don't know if he is in the rotation going forward!

that was funny as hell and, the sad thing is, there actually is a bit of truth in some of what you said.

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can we trade Amare for David Lee my favorite Knick during the Dismal Years

hah, I still remember getting reamed here for saying we'd be better off keeping Lee (pre amare trade). Guys went at me like I was a total idiot and now look at where we are.

I wish we could get Lee for Amare but, right now Lee's value is higher than Amare's which, is scary.
As bad as Lee was on defense, he could and did rebound and gave us a double/double every night

I really wanted to keep Lee but I bought into the fact that in order to get Lebron and another star hebwould have to go. Instead we dont get Lebron or a second star until the end of the year. What an unmitigated disaster. Now we are talking about trading amare for gasol, brand and Luis scola damn!

a team like OKC, would really fit well for Jorts to be a center there.'
Well OKC, would make plenty of players much better because of their superb combinations length, speed/quickness, athleticism, penetration, shooting, and young legs.
TC/Jorts have Ibaka and Durant at the forwards to help them out with

Tyson Chandler
Jorts
Novak

for

Harden
Perkins
late 1st rounder

OKC Lineup

Kidd/Reggie Williams/Cook
Westbrook/Sefelosha
Durant/Novak
Ibaka/Collison
Chandler/Jorts

LLE for Kidd for another great opportunity for a ring

KG
or
portion of MLE for a sharp shooter in Ray Allen, Terry, Billups, Danny Green
and
with players like
Boris Diaw, Kenyon Martin, Odom

They lack ball movement, highest TO for team, take too many bad shots *Westbrook*, and they should always be looking to run/push because of their physical skills.
We would obviously be looking to push the ball and play a fast pace on most days and lineups, with plenty of depth to rest our players and play at a fast pace, exerting lots of energy

but

We have the players that mix it up to play half court as well.

It is a trade that I think can benefit both teams, while we get the "Star" in Harden, OKC gets a DPOY, and players that get move the ball with less EGOs to worry about.
Having Harden, allows us to not worry about having enough PGs because of his ability to play point/forward/guard.
Would allow players like Iman, JR Smith, Melo, Lin, and even TD to finally have help and concentrate more on what they do best as their strengths, while not worrying about their
weaknesses....

I am looking for ways to preserve our FULL MLE *assuming we win Lin's early bird rights* and LLE by keeping our payroll under 70m trade Fields or let him walk if he cost more than 1m

Target 3 players with our exemptions, maybe dividing MLE for 2 players, refill our depth, using our penetration, and our versatility, as our greatest strengths to attack to get high % shots

Odom or AK47

Camby or Brandon Wright/Mahimi, Ryan Hollins veteran min

DJO with OKC's late first rounder.

Knicks lineups
--------------------

Lin
Harden
Melo
Amare
Perkins

probably the starting lineup
=================================

Lin
Harden
JR Smith
Melo
Amare
--------------------
this kind of lineup will surely boost back Amare's value, while we will be in big decline on defense, but great improvment on offense.

=================================

Harden *plays point forward, much like he does in OKC*
Iman *defending the PG and causing havok when he recovers*
JR Smith
Odom
Camby/Perkins

Defensive lineup
--------------------

DJO *harassing PGs, with Imans role*
Harden *playing point forward/G*
Melo
Odom
Amare

=================================

Lin
JR
Melo
Odom
Camby

--------------------

I think we could have a much balanced team with a combination of young legs, shooting ability, and good combination of penetration, shooting, and defense.
We won't have to watch Fields pump fake and drive anymore. I think this style fits Amare much better, I think he has problems to not be able to coexist with Tyson and Melo.

Lin
Harden
Melo
Amare
Perkins

DJO
JR
Odom LLE
Camby Partial MLE, leaving 1-2m for Patty Mills or just in case there is a steal...
Jordan

Iman *til he returns, in 100%, don't want to rush him*
Patty Mills/ Mike James
Jeffries/ Ryan Hollins
Kapono/Redd/ Fields at 1m or a vet minimum shooter
TD

RonRon wrote:Lin
Harden
Melo
Amare
Perkins

DJO
JR
Odom LLE
Camby Partial MLE, leaving 1-2m for Patty Mills or just in case there is a steal...
Jordan

Iman *til he returns, in 100%, don't want to rush him*
Patty Mills/ Mike James
Jeffries/ Ryan Hollins
Kapono/Redd/ Fields at 1m or a vet minimum shooter
TD

What a lineup that would be. Harden is probably valued much higher though given Chandler's age.

ramtour420 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think you guys are under selling his movement skills on D. Some players just know how to play and I think he is one of them. In an ideal world he would be quicker but Amar'e is quick and is terrible on D. What Joey's needs to do is come back 20-25 lbs lighter and improve his shot.

Agree. His post D is solid, he is not allergic to blocking shots, he has active hands on d - will sometimes just take the ball away down low. On offemse he is, by a wide margin, our 2nd best post player(Melo is #1), and he could get better. The fact that he has a very nice touch is gravy. He is the definition of our ideal PF.

I was really impressed with his play this season. I didn't think he had much of a shot making the team let alone getting minutes and contributing. I am glad the Knicks are going to Vegas this summer. I hope he goes. I think he definitely is a part of the future and I would love to see him continue to work and improve. I thought Woodson took him out quickly when he was playing well. Hopefully he makes the rotation and gets 18-22 minutes a night next year.

RonRon wrote:Lin
Harden
Melo
Amare
Perkins

DJO
JR
Odom LLE
Camby Partial MLE, leaving 1-2m for Patty Mills or just in case there is a steal...
Jordan

Iman *til he returns, in 100%, don't want to rush him*
Patty Mills/ Mike James
Jeffries/ Ryan Hollins
Kapono/Redd/ Fields at 1m or a vet minimum shooter
TD

RonRon, there is a fantasy option on NBA2k12. Put that team together on there to live out your pipe dream. Resigning Woodson proves that you are looking at

Lin
Fields
Melo
Amare
Chandler

There won't be anything else opening night.

then we will be picked apart, that lineup does not work vs good teams, def not vs the elite.

Amare does not mesh with Melo and Tyson.

Neither Amare or Tyson have a post move.

Fields is not a SG.

Tyson has to cover for Amare and Fields right the bat, while no one can cover for him.

Melo cannot post up with that line up, with no spacing.

Fields doesn't mesh with Melo's game.

Only Lin can penetrate off the dribble.

Our players will doubt themselves and each other as the season continues, as the media will pick us apart.

Our players will lose value and faith, over the course of the season.

Then End....

RonRon wrote:then we will be picked apart, that lineup does not work vs good teams, def not vs the elite.

Amare does not mesh with Melo and Tyson.

Neither Amare or Tyson have a post move.

Fields is not a SG.

Tyson has to cover for Amare and Fields right the bat, while no one can cover for him.

Melo cannot post up with that line up, with no spacing.

Fields doesn't mesh with Melo's game.

Only Lin can penetrate off the dribble.

Our players will doubt themselves and each other as the season continues, as the media will pick us apart.

Our players will lose value and faith, over the course of the season.

Then End....

Come on man. Cheer up. Have some faith.

gunsnewing wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can we trade Amare for David Lee my favorite Knick during the Dismal Years

hah, I still remember getting reamed here for saying we'd be better off keeping Lee (pre amare trade). Guys went at me like I was a total idiot and now look at where we are.

I wish we could get Lee for Amare but, right now Lee's value is higher than Amare's which, is scary.
As bad as Lee was on defense, he could and did rebound and gave us a double/double every night

I really wanted to keep Lee but I bought into the fact that in order to get Lebron and another star hebwould have to go. Instead we dont get Lebron or a second star until the end of the year. What an unmitigated disaster. Now we are talking about trading amare for gasol, brand and Luis scola damn!

Amare played at damn near MVP status before the trade last year. I was very impressed and happy with his aquisition at the time.

This year Amare's play was just plain awful at times. I didn't watch much of David Lee this year but I wouldn't doubt he had a better year.

If Amare keeps this poor play into next year, we will really start regretting that trade/signing.

David Lee was and still is the better passer and rebounder. We need those qualities.

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading Amare and starting Jorts next year.

Yeah, I just said that.

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can we trade Amare for David Lee my favorite Knick during the Dismal Years

hah, I still remember getting reamed here for saying we'd be better off keeping Lee (pre amare trade). Guys went at me like I was a total idiot and now look at where we are.

I wish we could get Lee for Amare but, right now Lee's value is higher than Amare's which, is scary.
As bad as Lee was on defense, he could and did rebound and gave us a double/double every night

I really wanted to keep Lee but I bought into the fact that in order to get Lebron and another star hebwould have to go. Instead we dont get Lebron or a second star until the end of the year. What an unmitigated disaster. Now we are talking about trading amare for gasol, brand and Luis scola damn!

Amare played at damn near MVP status before the trade last year. I was very impressed and happy with his aquisition at the time.

This year Amare's play was just plain awful at times. I didn't watch much of David Lee this year but I wouldn't doubt he had a better year.

If Amare keeps this poor play into next year, we will really start regretting that trade/signing.

David Lee was and still is the better passer and rebounder. We need those qualities.

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading Amare and starting Jorts next year.

Yeah, I just said that.

I too would love to trade Stoudemire for a very solid 6th man or multiple good rotation players, and start Jorts as some point. I will want to see how next season goes, but i think by Harrellson's 3rd season he could be ready if he makes good progress as a 20 mpg backup next season.

Knixkik wrote:

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can we trade Amare for David Lee my favorite Knick during the Dismal Years

hah, I still remember getting reamed here for saying we'd be better off keeping Lee (pre amare trade). Guys went at me like I was a total idiot and now look at where we are.

I wish we could get Lee for Amare but, right now Lee's value is higher than Amare's which, is scary.
As bad as Lee was on defense, he could and did rebound and gave us a double/double every night

I really wanted to keep Lee but I bought into the fact that in order to get Lebron and another star hebwould have to go. Instead we dont get Lebron or a second star until the end of the year. What an unmitigated disaster. Now we are talking about trading amare for gasol, brand and Luis scola damn!

Amare played at damn near MVP status before the trade last year. I was very impressed and happy with his aquisition at the time.

This year Amare's play was just plain awful at times. I didn't watch much of David Lee this year but I wouldn't doubt he had a better year.

If Amare keeps this poor play into next year, we will really start regretting that trade/signing.

David Lee was and still is the better passer and rebounder. We need those qualities.

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading Amare and starting Jorts next year.

Yeah, I just said that.

I too would love to trade Stoudemire for a very solid 6th man or multiple good rotation players, and start Jorts as some point. I will want to see how next season goes, but i think by Harrellson's 3rd season he could be ready if he makes good progress as a 20 mpg backup next season.

I would settle for some lottery picks, maybe sprinkle in a euro prospect or two.

Sorry Amare, I know you brought New York back but Dolan changed the plan and told Melo to come home. Now you can go bring another team back.