Knicks · You think Melo is willing to sacrafice his game for the team or Melo is for Melo & if he don't get the ball he will shut dow (page 1)
Melo must understand it takes a team to win a championship. No matter how many points he score if the rest of the guys are not on board they ain't winning. Melo must decide what he wants most. A scoring title or a champoinship and these next 3 years will be important in the rest of his career. He could be labeled a great team leader or poison to a team. I hope that he wakes up and be a team player. You know that when Lin comes back he won't be feeding the rock to Melo all the time and that might make Melo shut down. It's like this the better Lin's game become the more Melo must share the stage with Lin. I don't think that Melo is ready to do that yet. His ego won't let him. He might rather loose a game then share the stage with Lin and really I don't know if Lin is the real deal or if his body can hold up to the punishmint he can expect to get from other players. Only time will tell.
IMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
Can't really say it was a bad trade, when you give up a few talented guys for the best scroer/closer in the league, how bad can it be..
Getting a veteren pg in the deal was key..the problem i have was the aquisition of TYSON..
This is starting to look like a IT move, aquiring talented players that don't complement each other..
If we replace Melo with KD, you still have the same issues with amare..
Amare was having his best season as a pro playing Center and was pretty adament about not wanting to play the postion permently..I never understood that, in a league where hibbert is an allstar, your pouting about going up against big non skill full stiffs playing Center all across the NBA..
IMO in order for MELO to be successful in bringing a championship to NY, he needs to play PF much more, Amare needs to play Center more then he plays PF, and the Knicks need a pg, who won't throw the ball to melo 80% of the time.
knicks1248 wrote:Disagree completely. without Tyson this team goes nowhere he doesnt score but he was the Ddefensive player of the year and withgout him we might not have made the playoffs.IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
Can't really say it was a bad trade, when you give up a few talented guys for the best scroer/closer in the league, how bad can it be..
Getting a veteren pg in the deal was key..the problem i have was the aquisition of TYSON..
This is starting to look like a IT move, aquiring talented players that don't complement each other..If we replace Melo with KD, you still have the same issues with amare..
Amare was having his best season as a pro playing Center and was pretty adament about not wanting to play the postion permently..I never understood that, in a league where hibbert is an allstar, your pouting about going up against big non skill full stiffs playing Center all across the NBA..
IMO in order for MELO to be successful in bringing a championship to NY, he needs to play PF much more, Amare needs to play Center more then he plays PF, and the Knicks need a pg, who won't throw the ball to Amare 80% of the time.
IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Disagree completely. without Tyson this team goes nowhere he doesnt score but he was the Ddefensive player of the year and withgout him we might not have made the playoffs.IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
Can't really say it was a bad trade, when you give up a few talented guys for the best scroer/closer in the league, how bad can it be..
Getting a veteren pg in the deal was key..the problem i have was the aquisition of TYSON..
This is starting to look like a IT move, aquiring talented players that don't complement each other..If we replace Melo with KD, you still have the same issues with amare..
Amare was having his best season as a pro playing Center and was pretty adament about not wanting to play the postion permently..I never understood that, in a league where hibbert is an allstar, your pouting about going up against big non skill full stiffs playing Center all across the NBA..
IMO in order for MELO to be successful in bringing a championship to NY, he needs to play PF much more, Amare needs to play Center more then he plays PF, and the Knicks need a pg, who won't throw the ball to Amare 80% of the time.
Without Tyson, we're a .400 team
Knicksfan wrote:We need Tyson and we need Melo. Our biggest questions are if Lin is who we need at PG and if we need Stat at all.Well definetly Tyson we need. I mean when he got sick in the payoffs it showed much it affected our team
Knicksfan wrote:We need Tyson and we need Melo. Our biggest questions are if Lin is who we need at PG and if we need Stat at all.
Lin is a scoring PG and still able to setup his teammates!!! I find it odd that there are still so many NY fans that are doubtful of Lin, just because he had a bad game or 2 and TO prone in what was basically his 1st real starting role. The kid has the BALLZ and the talent to be a starting PG. He showed it over an extended stretch and it seems to me that part of his problem was he was probably worn down and had been playing with an injury.
Next year it's important to have a solid set of backups behind Lin. I saw all I needed to see from him and I don't hold that one Heat game against him. If you watch it he was clearly spent and didn't have it in that game. Sometimes it's not just the physical fatigue but also the mental fatigue. People forget just how draining that entire Linsanity stretch was. He had so many off court commitments and he was carrying so much of the load. He should be able to deal with that much better next year.
nixluva wrote:Agreed. he is still a young player and last year was the frst time he got any significant playing time after getting nothing his rookie year. i think he will be even better next year maybne not an all-star but we dont need him to be an all-star. He started to limit his Turnovers before he got hurt so i expect taht to continue.Knicksfan wrote:We need Tyson and we need Melo. Our biggest questions are if Lin is who we need at PG and if we need Stat at all.Lin is a scoring PG and still able to setup his teammates!!! I find it odd that there are still so many NY fans that are doubtful of Lin, just because he had a bad game or 2 and TO prone in what was basically his 1st real starting role. The kid has the BALLZ and the talent to be a starting PG. He showed it over an extended stretch and it seems to me that part of his problem was he was probably worn down and had been playing with an injury.
Next year it's important to have a solid set of backups behind Lin. I saw all I needed to see from him and I don't hold that one Heat game against him. If you watch it he was clearly spent and didn't have it in that game. Sometimes it's not just the physical fatigue but also the mental fatigue. People forget just how draining that entire Linsanity stretch was. He had so many off court commitments and he was carrying so much of the load. He should be able to deal with that much better next year.
nixluva wrote:Knicksfan wrote:We need Tyson and we need Melo. Our biggest questions are if Lin is who we need at PG and if we need Stat at all.Lin is a scoring PG and still able to setup his teammates!!! I find it odd that there are still so many NY fans that are doubtful of Lin, just because he had a bad game or 2 and TO prone in what was basically his 1st real starting role. The kid has the BALLZ and the talent to be a starting PG. He showed it over an extended stretch and it seems to me that part of his problem was he was probably worn down and had been playing with an injury.
Next year it's important to have a solid set of backups behind Lin. I saw all I needed to see from him and I don't hold that one Heat game against him. If you watch it he was clearly spent and didn't have it in that game. Sometimes it's not just the physical fatigue but also the mental fatigue. People forget just how draining that entire Linsanity stretch was. He had so many off court commitments and he was carrying so much of the load. He should be able to deal with that much better next year.
9 games is not an extended stretch and in many of those game he was having horrible shooting nights but pulled it out in the end...I'm not trying to bash Lin at all...What I saw when the intensity was turned up, he was having problems...Playoff basketball is all intensity...He needs time to grow and so many as so willing to toss him into the fire, I don't get... it...
knicks1248 wrote:IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
Can't really say it was a bad trade, when you give up a few talented guys for the best scroer/closer in the league, how bad can it be..
Getting a veteren pg in the deal was key..the problem i have was the aquisition of TYSON..
This is starting to look like a IT move, aquiring talented players that don't complement each other..If we replace Melo with KD, you still have the same issues with amare..
Amare was having his best season as a pro playing Center and was pretty adament about not wanting to play the postion permently..I never understood that, in a league where hibbert is an allstar, your pouting about going up against big non skill full stiffs playing Center all across the NBA..
IMO in order for MELO to be successful in bringing a championship to NY, he needs to play PF much more, Amare needs to play Center more then he plays PF, and the Knicks need a pg, who won't throw the ball to melo 80% of the time.
Chandler changed the whole makeup of our defense which is the reason he won Defensive player of the year...The kid is the real deal...You saw how we played defensively when he was out...
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysMelo must understand it takes a team to win a championship. No matter how many points he score if the rest of the guys are not on board they ain't winning. Melo must decide what he wants most. A scoring title or a champoinship and these next 3 years will be important in the rest of his career. He could be labeled a great team leader or poison to a team. I hope that he wakes up and be a team player. You know that when Lin comes back he won't be feeding the rock to Melo all the time and that might make Melo shut down. It's like this the better Lin's game become the more Melo must share the stage with Lin. I don't think that Melo is ready to do that yet. His ego won't let him. He might rather loose a game then share the stage with Lin and really I don't know if Lin is the real deal or if his body can hold up to the punishmint he can expect to get from other players. Only time will tell.
My take is that Melo wants to win or he wouldn't come to NY...He wants the grand stage not only to score, but to win...He was scoring in Denver...I too thinks Melo wants to be a star, but one with a ring...He has already tasted what winning the big one means in NY, he won at Cuse...I think Melo's big problem is trust...It's a major problem...He doesn't trust his teammates...He feels he has to do it all alone..On the face of it over the last year, who has been battling consistently all year outside of Chandler, and he isn't really an offensive threat...Oddly enough, I think he trust JR Smith...He doesn't trust Amare, who wasn't there for the playoffs last year and this year really..He doesn't trust Lin, who is essentially a rook and looking to get his...He trust Shump some, but again, a rook...
But all that said, he has to involve his teammates and play within a team concept even if it means losing some games...His teammates has to have the confidence to play in big games... I think our biggest need is a vet PG who understand the value of Amare...I truly believe Amare is the key to the Knicks competing...We need a PG who can get Amare the ball enough to regain his confidence...The Melo/Amare issue is that they both need lots of touches to be effective...They are both rhythm players...Unfortunately, so is Lin...All three guys can't have the ball all the time...That's why I'm a proponent of bringing Lin off the bench because he is a shoot first PG and can run the second unit and blend with the first unit while getting more shots for himself and learn...Amare has to get 15/18 shots per and Melo can work off that the way Bron does with Wade at times...I could be wrong though, I'm a Melo lover...
holfresh wrote:Good post. fair and objective not siding with any players. I think ther is a lot of truth in what you say. Sure guys need to step up but melo also has to learn to trust him team and put them in postions where they will be effective.Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysMelo must understand it takes a team to win a championship. No matter how many points he score if the rest of the guys are not on board they ain't winning. Melo must decide what he wants most. A scoring title or a champoinship and these next 3 years will be important in the rest of his career. He could be labeled a great team leader or poison to a team. I hope that he wakes up and be a team player. You know that when Lin comes back he won't be feeding the rock to Melo all the time and that might make Melo shut down. It's like this the better Lin's game become the more Melo must share the stage with Lin. I don't think that Melo is ready to do that yet. His ego won't let him. He might rather loose a game then share the stage with Lin and really I don't know if Lin is the real deal or if his body can hold up to the punishmint he can expect to get from other players. Only time will tell.
My take is that Melo wants to win or he wouldn't come to NY...He wants the grand stage not only to score, but to win...He was scoring in Denver...I too thinks Melo wants to be a star, but one with a ring...He has already tasted what winning the big one means in NY, he won at Cuse...I think Melo's big problem is trust...It's a major problem...He doesn't trust his teammates...He feels he has to do it all alone..On the face of it over the last year, who has been battling consistently all year outside of Chandler, and he isn't really an offensive threat...Oddly enough, I think he trust JR Smith...He doesn't trust Amare, who wasn't there for the playoffs last year and this year really..He doesn't trust Lin, who is essentially a rook and looking to get his...He trust Shump some, but again, a rook...
But all that said, he has to involve his teammates and play within a team concept even if it means losing some games...His teammates has to have the confidence to play in big games... I think our biggest need is a vet PG who understand the value of Amare...I truly believe Amare is the key to the Knicks competing...We need a PG who can get Amare the ball enough to regain his confidence...The Melo/Amare issue is that they both need lots of touches to be effective...They are both rhythm players...Unfortunately, so is Lin...All three guys can't have the ball all the time...That's why I'm a proponent of bringing Lin off the bench because he is a shoot first PG and can run the second unit and blend with the first unit while getting more shots for himself and learn...Amare has to get 15/18 shots per and Melo can work off that the way Bron does with Wade at times...I could be wrong though, I'm a Melo lover...
holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:IrishKnickFan wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Ironically I was just about to start a thread "IS MELO A FRANCHISE PLAYER"Thats why it was a bad trade because unless you are getting back a franchise player like lebron or durant you cant give up that much talent and picksIMO he is not, he's a scorer that makes no one really better except for the occassional pass here and there..He's not fundamental, he's a iso guy that needs clear outs to be successfull.
He had a chance to prove he was a franchise player when MDA was coaching him, and he sulk and put no real effort into becoming a more team player..
The question I have for you guys, IF KD, LBJ, and MELO were the 1st 3 players in the draft, and you were starting a franchise, who would you pick
KD makes no one better, but doesn't take bad shots, shoots just as oftern as melo, but he seems more content with sharing the spot light with westbrook
LBJ, makes everyone better, a big time team player, hardly ever takes bad shots, but never seems like he wants the ball in the clutch
Melo makes no one better, doesn't seem to want to share the spot light to often, but he is (and one may argue) the best scorer in the league, and one of the most clutch players in the history of the league..
Who would you go with?
Can't really say it was a bad trade, when you give up a few talented guys for the best scroer/closer in the league, how bad can it be..
Getting a veteren pg in the deal was key..the problem i have was the aquisition of TYSON..
This is starting to look like a IT move, aquiring talented players that don't complement each other..If we replace Melo with KD, you still have the same issues with amare..
Amare was having his best season as a pro playing Center and was pretty adament about not wanting to play the postion permently..I never understood that, in a league where hibbert is an allstar, your pouting about going up against big non skill full stiffs playing Center all across the NBA..
IMO in order for MELO to be successful in bringing a championship to NY, he needs to play PF much more, Amare needs to play Center more then he plays PF, and the Knicks need a pg, who won't throw the ball to melo 80% of the time.
Chandler changed the whole makeup of our defense which is the reason he won Defensive player of the year...The kid is the real deal...You saw how we played defensively when he was out...
I appriciate what tyson has done for our defense, but you can't say that if we had a healthy billups from day one, would we ever had been 6 games under .500.
We may have been a mediocre defensive team, but with jr, melo and billups, guys who had played together for some years, and billups and setting Amare up, there's no question we would have been just as good..
My biggest concern after the trade was who is going to control Melo's touches, surely not douglas, and Davis was a pipe dream..
Again, were talikng about a MDA system, not woody..we were a mediocre defensive team after the trade for melo, we were a decent defensive team during MDA's part of the season with tyson..
I believe we would have finish the season with the same record with mda and billups, as we did with tyson and woody..
We would have still been able to aquire lin becuase davis wasn't a lock to have any impact, and douglas sucked and grunwald and MDA had always wanted LIN.
No I do not think Melo intends to be as he is...he just thinks he is the best option. I do not believe Melo will win a championship. PJax might could have got them their running the triangle. Would love to be proved wrong. It's a safe bet though.
Maybe they improve a lot over the course of the next year...but come the finals I expect we will be sitting on the sidelines again.
Lin showed a hell of a lot looking Melo off at times when he came back. Don't expect it to sit well next year. There will be issues. Melo expects to be top dawg and call the shots. If not he will dog it. He has the bankroll now. Which is what he wanted or CP3 would be in NY and not LA.
In the days after the Knicks were eliminated, Anthony was asked about coming into next year in better shape, and he basically dismissed the entire concept of him not being in the best shape he could have been in at the start of this season.
That tells me he is not going to change his off-season training, and therefore he is not going to take the extra steps needed to be the superstar some people on UK mistakenly believe he is.
When you look at him in college, you see a much more trim player, with some definition in his arms. He was no Charles Oakley, but he had some cuts and a body that you would have expected to fill out with some muscle as he matured and took advantage of a team's training facilities. Instead you have a guy, supposedly in his prime, in one of the most demanding physical sports there is, who seems to have a double chin, and is clearly not in the kind of shape that guys like Bryant, James, and Wade are in.
Yeah, I understand that just being in great shape with a low body-fat % does not make you a great player, but if you look at dominant players, especially those who are not 6'10" and above, very few, if any, of them are carrying extra weight.
Anthony has as much natural talent as anyone in the league but natural talent can only get you so far at this level. In order for him to gain an edge, he has to put in the effort in the off-season.
The Knicks seem to be hamstrung as far as the nature of the moves they can make in this off-season to add significant new bodies to next year's roster, but there is nothing stopping Anthony, but himself, from coming into the next season with a transformed physique, and, in essence, give the Knicks a "new" body. This, as much as anything, will give me hope that he is ready to lead the Knicks to the next level.
Unfortunately, I don't thing Anthony has the drive in him to do this. I would love to be proven wrong... but I don't think the Knicks will ever win a title with Anthony as the star the team is built around.