Knicks · Lebron And Dwyane Are Just Getting In Sync, Amar'e and Carmelo Will Be Fine (page 4)

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

misterearl wrote:Who cares about average peak of career production?

Somebody forgot to remind countless players like Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett that age matters. Age ain't nothing but a number.

The only thing that matters is that team mates come together at the right time to trust each other. The rest takes care of itslef.

No statistic ever predicted the future.

Are you really comparing Stat and Melo to Duncan, Allen and Garnett?

Really?

Those 3 never took a night off, worked hard to improve their game day after day and hold records in many statistics.

Those 3 are elite, Stat and Melo are not.

raven wrote:

misterearl wrote:Who cares about average peak of career production?

Somebody forgot to remind countless players like Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett that age matters. Age ain't nothing but a number.

The only thing that matters is that team mates come together at the right time to trust each other. The rest takes care of itslef.

No statistic ever predicted the future.

Are you really comparing Stat and Melo to Duncan, Allen and Garnett?

Really?

Those 3 never took a night off, worked hard to improve their game day after day and hold records in many statistics.

Those 3 are elite, Stat and Melo are not.

Good Point. Some people keep comparing Amare/Melo to all tese elite/HOF players who have had major success. Amare and Melo have had great individual success but not playoff success. As a Knick fan i hope they become like those guys but it has to happen soon. These guys arent getting any younger and have already started having bad injuries this year. So the next 3 years could be our best chance with this group espcially since we dont have many drfat picks over the next few years

IrishKnickFan wrote:

raven wrote:

misterearl wrote:Who cares about average peak of career production?

Somebody forgot to remind countless players like Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett that age matters. Age ain't nothing but a number.

The only thing that matters is that team mates come together at the right time to trust each other. The rest takes care of itslef.

No statistic ever predicted the future.

Are you really comparing Stat and Melo to Duncan, Allen and Garnett?

Really?

Those 3 never took a night off, worked hard to improve their game day after day and hold records in many statistics.

Those 3 are elite, Stat and Melo are not.

Good Point. Some people keep comparing Amare/Melo to all tese elite/HOF players who have had major success. Amare and Melo have had great individual success but not playoff success. As a Knick fan i hope they become like those guys but it has to happen soon. These guys arent getting any younger and have already started having bad injuries this year. So the next 3 years could be our best chance with this group espcially since we dont have many drfat picks over the next few years

you guys are a little blind and are reading waaaayyyy to much into a sentence that mentions some obvious HOFs and then saying that means our team has the same.

It's not about that. It's about the fact that the Knicks just don't have a window of a couple of years. That's all. It's not a direct equation of Melo/Amare to HOF level.

martin wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

raven wrote:

misterearl wrote:Who cares about average peak of career production?

Somebody forgot to remind countless players like Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett that age matters. Age ain't nothing but a number.

The only thing that matters is that team mates come together at the right time to trust each other. The rest takes care of itslef.

No statistic ever predicted the future.

Are you really comparing Stat and Melo to Duncan, Allen and Garnett?

Really?

Those 3 never took a night off, worked hard to improve their game day after day and hold records in many statistics.

Those 3 are elite, Stat and Melo are not.

Good Point. Some people keep comparing Amare/Melo to all tese elite/HOF players who have had major success. Amare and Melo have had great individual success but not playoff success. As a Knick fan i hope they become like those guys but it has to happen soon. These guys arent getting any younger and have already started having bad injuries this year. So the next 3 years could be our best chance with this group espcially since we dont have many drfat picks over the next few years

you guys are a little blind and are reading waaaayyyy to much into a sentence that mentions some obvious HOFs and then saying that means our team has the same.

It's not about that. It's about the fact that the Knicks just don't have a window of a couple of years. That's all. It's not a direct equation of Melo/Amare to HOF level.

Honestly i just was talking about the window of oppurtuntiy with this current group since its not a young core like OKC. I still think this will be a playoff team for the forseeable future. Also you reminded me i need to schedule and eye appointment

misterearl wrote:Who cares about average peak of career production?

Somebody forgot to remind countless players like Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett that age matters. Age ain't nothing but a number.

The only thing that matters is that team mates come together at the right time to trust each other. The rest takes care of itslef.

No statistic ever predicted the future.

Plenty of statistics do predict the future - with imperfect but better than chance accuracy. The average is always the most probable scenario. Melo and Amare have several factors working against them that suggest they may actually age worse than the average player does, though, including: a) very many minutes per game, b) evidence already of declining production (especially Amare), c) several recent injuries and surgeries, and d) poor physical conditioning (Melo).

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

I'm sorry, but the claim was that Nash is elite because he's taken his team to the Finals good talent around him, which is simply not true. In fact, that's not really true of Kobe either, so I guess he isn't elite either.

VCoug wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

I'm sorry, but the claim was that Nash is elite because he's taken his team to the Finals good talent around him, which is simply not true. In fact, that's not really true of Kobe either, so I guess he isn't elite either.

Nash makes guys better around him and is a multiple time MVP. I mean malone and stockton were elite even before they went to the finals

IrishKnickFan wrote:

VCoug wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

I'm sorry, but the claim was that Nash is elite because he's taken his team to the Finals good talent around him, which is simply not true. In fact, that's not really true of Kobe either, so I guess he isn't elite either.

Nash makes guys better around him and is a multiple time MVP. I mean malone and stockton were elite even before they went to the finals

+1

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

CrushAlot wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

sure nash didnt got to the finals but he still wan an elite player

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

sure nash didnt got to the finals but he still wan an elite player

I don't think that was being disputed. But if someone responds that Nash didn't go to the finals he shouldn't be told that he is being ridiculous.

CrushAlot wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

sure nash didnt got to the finals but he still wan an elite player

I don't think that was being disputed. But if someone responds that Nash didn't go to the finals he shouldn't be told that he is being ridiculous.

I dont think its that big of deal it wasnt an insult and im sure the poster can take care of himself

Nash would be a great addition and I think given what he's been saddled with in terms of teammates the last year, playing with Melo, STAT, Tyson etc would be an upgrade and give him the kind of help that would make his job easier. With good depth Nash wouldn't have to "carry" this team and that is something older players all need help with. Older players like KG, Dirk etc need to have good talent around them so that they can get a break from the work load a younger star is able to handle ie Lebron and Wade.

Like the Mavs the Knicks will need superior depth to overcome the talent of Lebron and Wade and get out of the East. I do believe it's very possible, but i'm not expecting STAT and Melo to rise to the level of a Lebron and Wade cuz they simply aren't the same type of players. STAT and Melo are 2 finishers rather than 2 creators that can also finish at a high level. That's why it's imperative that we add more PASSERS to the roster. You can't have a roster full of guys that are there to finish a play and aren't as good at creating for others. That's why having Lin worked cuz he basically played the role of Nash and if we should ever add guys like Nash and Odom, then you are increasing the teams ability to move the ball effectively and allow STAT, Melo, Novak and Tyson to be the HIGH EFFICIENCY scorers they're meant to be. Lebron and Wade are two high level ball distributors and it makes a real difference since they handle the ball a LOT.

Grunwald knows that players like that have value. That's why they kept trying to add vets like Kidd and Hill. Ball movement is a huge factor and especially if you have a star like Melo that is a ball stopper and the rest of your stars are also guys that are used to catching and scoring. Heck, someone has to pass the ball!!!

The bird rights hearing is gonna be big. If it rules in our favor then we can possibly think about nash and if he would take the mid level. However if they rule against the union it will be a big blow

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

sure nash didnt got to the finals but he still wan an elite player

I don't think that was being disputed. But if someone responds that Nash didn't go to the finals he shouldn't be told that he is being ridiculous.

I dont think its that big of deal it wasnt an insult and im sure the poster can take care of himself

I think there is a huge difference between getting eliminated in the conference finals and going to the finals. Melo led a team to the conference finals and my guess is by the time he is Nash's age he will have been there at least twice. I think you made a mistake in regards to Nash and VCoug was right to bring up Nash's not going to the finals. I don't think it was ridiculous. Look at Melo's denver team when they went to the conference finals and I wouldn't make the claim that he made guys better but I do think that team over achieved.

I am not a big Melo guy. I hated the trade and I think the Knicks are probably stalled in their development as a second round exit team now that he is the guy. However, I think it is important to be accurate if you criticize him or his record as a pro. He is a very good player.

CrushAlot wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

He wasn't being ridiculous. He was responding to this statement.

Elite is a guy that can that can play consistently great and get his team far in the playoffs. Now i agree melo when he is on is unstoppable but melo is not always like that. Now guys like lebron kobe nash and even dwight are elite guys because all of them have led their team to the finals even when they dotn have that much talent around them. Even though im a diehard knicks fan and dislike thgose vguys i mentioned i have to be fair

I think that implies the finals not the conference finals.

sure nash didnt got to the finals but he still wan an elite player

I don't think that was being disputed. But if someone responds that Nash didn't go to the finals he shouldn't be told that he is being ridiculous.

I dont think its that big of deal it wasnt an insult and im sure the poster can take care of himself

I think there is a huge difference between getting eliminated in the conference finals and going to the finals. Melo led a team to the conference finals and my guess is by the time he is Nash's age he will have been there at least twice. I think you made a mistake in regards to Nash and VCoug was right to bring up Nash's not going to the finals. I don't think it was ridiculous. Look at Melo's denver team when they went to the conference finals and I wouldn't make the claim that he made guys better but I do think that team over achieved.

I am not a big Melo guy. I hated the trade and I think the Knicks are probably stalled in their development as a second round exit team now that he is the guy. However, I think it is important to be accurate if you criticize him or his record as a pro. He is a very good player.

Well first of all i never called VCoug ridiculous that was somebody else. And I know Nahs never went to the finals i was just putting him with guys who i feel are also elite

All Elite players need some really good players around them to succeed. They call it a TEAM sport for a reason. There's no sense in bashing guys who are clearly great talents unless you have a circumstance where that player was on a loaded team and he failed to put them over the top. IMO that rarely happens. Usually the better TEAM and not the best singular talent wins.

So the question is how do we put together a TEAM that includes Melo, that has the best chance to win. I like the start with STAT, Melo, Tyson and Lin. Hopefully a healthy Shump thrown in. That's a great start and IMO a starting five that should be able to compete head to head with any team in the league. The problem for the Knicks has been the next guys off the bench. We have to have better quality. For one thing a CLEAR sixth man would be nice. A player good enough to be a starter that can come in and give the team a focal point and boost off the bench. Better quality depth overall is the next issue. I think these are highly achievable goals, if the team gets a little luck. Winning the arbitration would be a start. Getting a good player in the draft that fills a need ie. a backup PG. A good couple of FA signings. IMO the hardest part was done and now they need to put it all together. Despite the bad ending to the season, this is not a doom and gloom situation.

nixluva wrote:All Elite players need some really good players around them to succeed. They call it a TEAM sport for a reason. There's no sense in bashing guys who are clearly great talents unless you have a circumstance where that player was on a loaded team and he failed to put them over the top. IMO that rarely happens. Usually the better TEAM and not the best singular talent wins.

So the question is how do we put together a TEAM that includes Melo, that has the best chance to win. I like the start with STAT, Melo, Tyson and Lin. Hopefully a healthy Shump thrown in. That's a great start and IMO a starting five that should be able to compete head to head with any team in the league. The problem for the Knicks has been the next guys off the bench. We have to have better quality. For one thing a CLEAR sixth man would be nice. A player good enough to be a starter that can come in and give the team a focal point and boost off the bench. Better quality depth overall is the next issue. I think these are highly achievable goals, if the team gets a little luck. Winning the arbitration would be a start. Getting a good player in the draft that fills a need ie. a backup PG. A good couple of FA signings. IMO the hardest part was done and now they need to put it all together. Despite the bad ending to the season, this is not a doom and gloom situation.

+1

The only thing I have a problem with that starting five (our current starting 5 when Shump is healthy) is a lack of athleticism at 3/4/5. They are great in situations, but when we need to hurry back on D, we get run out, long rebounds kill us because the only guys back in time on fast teams are the guards and Jeffries and Novak, neither of which are that helpful unless they get a charge call. If I was the trainer, I would have Melo, STAT, and Chandler running half court sprints backwards, sideways, and forwards and switching it up until their feet and eyes and hands all work together in sync and quickly. Only way we'll have a chance against teams like Miami or OKC that can run super fast in transition, even off a made basket.

raven wrote:

VCoug wrote:Nash has never been to the Finals.

Nash is a 2 time MVP and one of the best PG in league history.
He went to the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Please, don't be ridiculous to prove a point.

Offensively you have a point. Defensively not even average.

Westbrook and Durant

Amar'e and Carmelo would be wise to enroll in advanced "Pick And Roll" classes at Basketball University.

Carmelo has demonstrated he can be a willing passer. He will move without the ball if Mike Woodson tells him to.

Amar'e needs to learn the joy of the assist. His dribble with his head down must be corrected.

Piece of cake.