I Wouldnt trade for Harden in this deal
he isnt going to be much better than shown.
A fine player but limited to go to his right
he has lots of moments but he isnt this superb lock-down defender.
He'll give up on play on D once in awhile and shows most energy when
he has the ball offensively.
better offense than D
Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
Harden's the new Ginobili. Great in that system with those players, but definitely not a $20mill a year guy.
y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
were all knix fans here and we want to improve the team...i know we all like to dream but im very big on reality...from now on im going to be the bubblebuster - especially regarding these trade considerations!
not only will this trade not happen but even if we did, we couldnt afford them...
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT...LOL...none of this is happening
instead lets use our creative energy to see what options this team could REALISTICALLY make
Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Ding ding. Thank God it's not just me reading this James Harden = max and going WTF. 
There have been moments where, after looking at what Harden can do on the court, I can imagine that he will eventually be the kind of player who can lead a team.
He defers to Westbrook and Durant at this stage of his career.
If I had to choose between keeping Westbrook or Harden, I would choose Harden at this point. Better upside as a player, IMO, and you can't beat the beard.
martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Basically that's just another way of saying he doesn't attempt enough shots. If he goes to a team where he is the focal, point he's going to average 20 to 25 PPG and everyone will be shocked.
Solace wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Ding ding. Thank God it's not just me reading this James Harden = max and going WTF.
No, I think everyone who looks at total PPG and gives that the sole focus rather than looking at sabermetrics would be going WTF - in other words over 99% of fans would. Basically, the way to get paid in this league is to take a lot of shots - even if you hit at only 40% you're still better off taking a lot of shots if you want a big contract.
Bonn1997 wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Basically that's just another way of saying he doesn't attempt enough shots. If he goes to a team where he is the focal, point he's going to average 20 to 25 PPG and everyone will be shocked.
the shot thing is your comment, not mine. focal point is not same thing, nor is carrying team for stretches.
Bonn1997 wrote:Solace wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Ding ding. Thank God it's not just me reading this James Harden = max and going WTF.
No, I think everyone who looks at total PPG and gives that the sole focus rather than looking at sabermetrics would be going WTF - in other words over 99% of fans would. Basically, the way to get paid in this league is to take a lot of shots - even if you hit at only 40% you're still better off taking a lot of shots if you want a big contract.
It's one thing to pick your spots and be efficient with the ball as the 3rd scorer when the primary or secondary scorer takes a breather. It's another thing when the opposing coach and defense sole focus is to stop or slow you down as the main guy.
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Solace wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Ding ding. Thank God it's not just me reading this James Harden = max and going WTF.
No, I think everyone who looks at total PPG and gives that the sole focus rather than looking at sabermetrics would be going WTF - in other words over 99% of fans would. Basically, the way to get paid in this league is to take a lot of shots - even if you hit at only 40% you're still better off taking a lot of shots if you want a big contract.
It's one thing to pick your spots and be efficient with the ball as the 3rd scorer when the primary or secondary scorer takes a breather. It's another thing when the opposing coach and defense sole focus is to stop or slow you down as the main guy.
I believe there is a "sample size" argument to be made here.
martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Basically that's just another way of saying he doesn't attempt enough shots. If he goes to a team where he is the focal, point he's going to average 20 to 25 PPG and everyone will be shocked.
the shot thing is your comment, not mine. focal point is not same thing, nor is carrying team for stretches.
It is the same. Most fans just don't realize it. If Harden decides to take 5 more shots a game, he'll be called a "focal point" of the offense and get more recognition. In several studies, the biggest predictor of a player's salary is not how much he helps his team but how many shots he attempts.
Whoever, does not think Harden is a max player, obviously does not what OKC play.
He is a top 3 SG in the entire league.
He the #1 SG in the entire league, because of his age and potential.
He can be a great building block for a franchise with many years left in him, his career is just beginning.
At his position, he leads the league in many categories, and he is the youngest, highest potential, and versatile player, able to play LEGIT PG, SG, SF
Harden >>> Melo
Bonn1997 wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:Harden's not even close to a max contract player. He's a fantastic sixth man, and that's important, but not worth the max.
What do max contract players do that he does not?
be the focal point of their team and carry them through long stretches of the season.
Basically that's just another way of saying he doesn't attempt enough shots. If he goes to a team where he is the focal, point he's going to average 20 to 25 PPG and everyone will be shocked.
the shot thing is your comment, not mine. focal point is not same thing, nor is carrying team for stretches.
It is the same. Most fans just don't realize it. If Harden decides to take 5 more shots a game, he'll be called a "focal point" of the offense and get more recognition. In several studies, the biggest predictor of a player's salary is not how much he helps his team but how many shots he attempts.
you can speculate about that for almost any player in the league. Point doesn't hold.
You could but you'd be wrong. Studies have found that players play at the same efficiency regardless of how many shots they take.
Bonn1997 wrote:You could but you'd be wrong. Studies have found that players play at the same efficiency regardless of how many shots they take.
Please show us the study.
Also show us how it relates to being the focal point of team.
And then show us how it relates to more than 1-side of the ballgame.
IMHO Those are the things that make a max player. There are of course stupid owners who will give Joe Johnson the max, don't make him a "max" - focal point, carry team - player.
martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You could but you'd be wrong. Studies have found that players play at the same efficiency regardless of how many shots they take.
Please show us the study. Also show us how it relates to being the focal point of team.
And then show us how it relates to more than 1-side of the ballgame.
IMHO Those are the things that make a max player. There are of course stupid owners who will give Joe Johnson the max, don't make him a "max" - focal point, carry team - player.
You can find a discussion of those studies in Berri's books and the full citations too them. But you don't really want to see the work. I've pointed you to it many times but you still clearly haven't read it.
Bonn1997 wrote:martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You could but you'd be wrong. Studies have found that players play at the same efficiency regardless of how many shots they take.
Please show us the study. Also show us how it relates to being the focal point of team.
And then show us how it relates to more than 1-side of the ballgame.
IMHO Those are the things that make a max player. There are of course stupid owners who will give Joe Johnson the max, don't make him a "max" - focal point, carry team - player.
You can find a discussion of those studies in Berri's books and the full citations too them. But you don't really want to see the work. I've pointed you to it many times but you still clearly have read it.
I think I need to go read Berri's book so that I can understand why Harden is fukking this up for OKC and losing them the series. How can a top three SG do this? Never mind, let me do some reading.
Guess we can end the James Harden top player/max player talk...guy's pure trash tonight so far.
