Knicks · Convinced Knicks wont win with Melo (page 1)
Your watching the finals and getting depressed cuz knicks are not there.
Im sure your feeling better knowing that the knicks would not get to finals either with Gallo-Moz-Felton-Shy Willie and that quad would never be traded.
Knicks could come together. Have faith.
Every good player needs help, but when will Melo get some help from his team mates most notably the other max cat?
Just watching this finals alone I see two PF's be very instrumental in their teams success WITHOUT having to score a bunch of points.
Ibaka has a block party out there and Bosh does some very solid board work.
Any chance we get any of that from Amare?
ChuckBuck wrote:If Amare could average a double figure rebounds, play decent D, and hit that midrange J, then yes the Knicks have a chance with Melo.
Most important piece is guards that work with Melo AND Amare. I think about Paul Pierce. Career wise he is around 45%, but had some of his best % years in the last 5 seasons, despite his age. Why? Rajon Rondo. Melo and Pierce have similar games, and what the Knicks need more than most other NBA teams is guard-play that is unselfish, unpredictable, smart, and creative. Lin is only one piece to that puzzle, we need at least one more smart, crafty guard to open up the floor and find the open Melo/Amare/cutting Chandler, etc, but mostly for Melo.
JohnStarksFan wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If Amare could average a double figure rebounds, play decent D, and hit that midrange J, then yes the Knicks have a chance with Melo.Most important piece is guards that work with Melo AND Amare. I think about Paul Pierce. Career wise he is around 45%, but had some of his best % years in the last 5 seasons, despite his age. Why? Rajon Rondo. Melo and Pierce have similar games, and what the Knicks need more than most other NBA teams is guard-play that is unselfish, unpredictable, smart, and creative. Lin is only one piece to that puzzle, we need at least one more smart, crafty guard to open up the floor and find the open Melo/Amare/cutting Chandler, etc, but mostly for Melo.
I think Lin could be the Knicks poor man's Rondo. Rondo was absolutely horrendous his first couple seasons, even when they won a Championship. He deferred alot to the Big 3 and got it to their sweet spots. Eventually he grew into a leader and became the best player on Boston, becoming so great he was able to mask the Big 3's age and deficiencies. If Lin can take a step back from his scoring mentality and get others involved more, then the Knicks can be dangerous. If not, we'll need another crafty veteran PG to do this.
tj23 wrote:I agree this is what I've been saying. Melo needs to relinquish his role and be our 2nd best player. Okc needs to keep Harden and move Westbrook for a guy like Howard and maybe Nelson temporarily.
So who's the first option?
And no way OKC moves Westbrook to have Nelson as their starter, even if they got Howard.
tj23 wrote:I agree this is what I've been saying. Melo needs to relinquish his role and be our 2nd best player. Okc needs to keep Harden and move Westbrook for a guy like Howard and maybe Nelson temporarily.
Is this before or after they potentially win a championship? Why would they do that when everything has worked out well for them? Ibaka and Perkins more than give that team enough presence in the paint on both ends, especially with Ibaka improving his jumper and low-post play. Why do people think OKC need to change anything?
the saddest part is Westbrook >>> Melo
With Westbrook he is an athletic freak that is much more explosive, can handle the ball, penetrate, and play lock down defense for 2 positions.
Westbrook tried to take over in the beginning of the game, with his horrible play, and the Heat just came out too strong, they were down 2-20 or something like that.
Instead of trying to get the ball to Durant in good spots and set him his team, he chooses to force penetration when the help defender is there, and take contested jumpers without offensive rebounding position.
I have never seen once seen Scott Brooks ever put Westbrook in his place and hold him accountable.
He makes poor decisions and poor shot selection, he isn't a true PG that is good in terms of facilitating.
In fact, Westbrook gets rewarded for consistently taking bad shots, by making it some of the times, getting high fives for it, and hears the crowd cheering.
I don't mind him taking a bad shot every now and then, just to keep the defense honest and try to make the defense come out to spread the floor.
But I do not want him consistently taking it, thinking its a shot he could consistently make.
Problem is, he doesn't see what we see, he see's it as a shot he should have made, not a shot that he shouldn't be taking.
This style of play, is something that must be correctly early, he will turn in to a Melo if this continues, and it just isn't efficient.
This is exactly what happened to Melo, for him to become the player he is today.
He is lucky enough to have Durant, Harden, and a nice cast around him with the abilities to score and play D.
I thought being down 2-0 versus the Spurs, was a good rude awakening.
OKC and Westbrook learned the importance of getting their role players involved and moving the basketball like what SA does.
Harden even if he doesn't pass the ball, he utilizes everyone on the court as an option, once in awhile he will pass it out.
His handle is much better than Westbrook's and he often plays the PG when the game is on the line in the closing games when they are all in.
He has a connection with Nick Collison, knowing Collison is very under rated and has the ability to score.
However, he loses some of his aggressiveness when Durant and Westbrook are both in.
He know's Durant deserves the ball over him as the leagues leading scorer again....
But with I think he know's he deserves the ball over Westbrook.
While Tony Parker has a phenomenal year and Poppavich gave him a mouthful for one play vs OKC.
In fact he went off on Parker though out his career on many occasions.
He also went off on Stephen Jackson and Ginobili.
It is called "coaching"
These guys are all grown men, that are all stars, they just take it from him, if that was Melo, he would try to get him fired with a whole plan.
Westbrook is a prima donna, he went from being a role player in college, and developed in to an amazing player in 1-2 years in the pros.
He was horrible his first year, considering what he does now. He was picked that high because of his ceiling, his athleticism, reach, strength, and size.
I know he is very competitive and worked very hard to become the player he is today.
But he turned in to an ALL STAR too fast and it really affected him in a negative way.
When he takes his horrible shot selection and makes it, it is fools gold.
I thought after getting his max contract, he would stop playing this way, focusing more on defensive as a lock down defender.
He never had a good/great PG to mentor him, maybe getting a player like Kidd/Nash, would really help his development/understanding of the NBA game.
I know OKC, when playing from behind, their "big 3" doesn't trust their team mates as much, lacking ball movement.
Westbrook has to understand HE IS NOT in the same category as Durant.
In fact, he also IS NOT, in the same category as Harden.
His #1 job is to play lock down defense and getting his team involved by setting them up.
Durant has the ability to take over games, take bad shots, and is the #1 alpha dog.
It is like he is trying to always prove he is an All Star, like OKC is his team, similar to Lebron/Wade on the Heat, his own version of Wade.
However, unlike Miami Heat, OKC has tremondous talent around them.
I hope Westbrook gets cured from his, CASS disease, Carmelo Anthony STATWhore Syndrome.
They can keep trading to keep key players on contract while having others on rookie scale or stashed in Europe.
I mentioned this the other day that you can prolong a run/dynasty this way. You don't win cchampionships every year doing it this way but you don't always win championships anyway.
SAS has done this and build a strong franchise that has been very profitable also.
Small market teams need to stay relevant and it can be done this way.
If a guy wants to play in a bigger market and get paid you can accomodate him and still win.
It beats having them walk for nothing and drag the franchise and its fans into a negative light.
gunsnewing wrote:Lets make it clear that amare is useless without a pg. Melo can at least get his own sbot off. The key is for Lin to get both of them the ball in their sweet spots. With the ball in Lin.s hands there will be better ball movement and open shots from his penetration for amare, melo, chandler & hopefully novak
Yes it's not complicated! Lin and finding another capable PG is what this team needs. Better depth overall actually!! Shump, Jorts, Landry have to also make improvements and hopefully Jordan too!!! As our draft picks its essential that we get great value from them. Imagine if Landry gets his jumper going? If Jorts comes back in better shape and with a more developed offensive game? This is all possible.
STAT, Melo n Tyson are proven performers so really it's about the supporting cast of mostly young players that must improve. The key is a better Lin, Shump, Landry, Jorts, Jordan and even TD!!! Of course a good draft pick and FA.
It is so obvious that ATM does not work well together, while Amare and Melo make too much to acquire additional help.
We got really lucky with the lockout year, draft, amnesty, and waiver wire with Lin/Novak already.
However, we are no where close to competing with the elites.
We are right next to Atlanta, that is HORRIBLE.
Our starting lineup is made up of players that do not mesh well, with players that have holes to their games.
They were outplayed by the 2nd/3rd unit players during Linsanity for a reason.
Either put Amare in as a center, with shooters to spread the floor, with the "stretch 4 that can block shots, play solid defense, and constantly run.
or
Give Tyson Chandler the players to play solid defense and capable of spreading the floor.
Right now, we are right in the middle, not good enough at either thing, to beat good/elite teams in a 7 games series.
RonRon wrote:We are not even close to competing with OKC or The Heat, even with our lineup healthy.
It is so obvious that ATM does not work well together, while Amare and Melo make too much to acquire additional help.
We got really lucky with the lockout year, draft, amnesty, and waiver wire with Lin/Novak already.
However, we are no where close to competing with the elites.
We are right next to Atlanta, that is HORRIBLE.Our starting lineup is made up of players that do not mesh well, with players that have holes to their games.
They were outplayed by the 2nd/3rd unit players during Linsanity for a reason.Either put Amare in as a center, with shooters to spread the floor, with the "stretch 4 that can block shots, play solid defense, and constantly run.
or
Give Tyson Chandler the players to play solid defense and capable of spreading the floor.
Right now, we are right in the middle, not good enough at either thing, to beat good/elite teams in a 7 games series.
The problem I have with your assertion is that we really don't have a good enough sample size of Lin, Melo, STAT & Tyson playing together at the same time and with an actual offense that is designed to exploit what they do best. We basically only saw them together and healthy for a few games. From my recollection they probably played about 15 games together in a brief stretch. That's not even close to enough time to really evaluate if this group can play well together!!!
They need a REAL amount of time together and with a game plan that is designed to work for all of them as a group. That kind of plan was never really figured out. Given that Lin came in late and guys were out injured during that time. There was too much change.
RonRon wrote:Exactly why I am trying to come up with trades and acquire more skilled players.the saddest part is Westbrook >>> Melo
With Westbrook he is an athletic freak that is much more explosive, can handle the ball, penetrate, and play lock down defense for 2 positions.
Westbrook tried to take over in the beginning of the game, with his horrible play, and the Heat just came out too strong, they were down 2-20 or something like that.
Instead of trying to get the ball to Durant in good spots and set him his team, he chooses to force penetration when the help defender is there, and take contested jumpers without offensive rebounding position.I have never seen once seen Scott Brooks ever put Westbrook in his place and hold him accountable.
He makes poor decisions and poor shot selection, he isn't a true PG that is good in terms of facilitating.
In fact, Westbrook gets rewarded for consistently taking bad shots, by making it some of the times, getting high fives for it, and hears the crowd cheering.
I don't mind him taking a bad shot every now and then, just to keep the defense honest and try to make the defense come out to spread the floor.
But I do not want him consistently taking it, thinking its a shot he could consistently make.Problem is, he doesn't see what we see, he see's it as a shot he should have made, not a shot that he shouldn't be taking.
This style of play, is something that must be correctly early, he will turn in to a Melo if this continues, and it just isn't efficient.
This is exactly what happened to Melo, for him to become the player he is today.
He is lucky enough to have Durant, Harden, and a nice cast around him with the abilities to score and play D.
I thought being down 2-0 versus the Spurs, was a good rude awakening.
OKC and Westbrook learned the importance of getting their role players involved and moving the basketball like what SA does.
Harden even if he doesn't pass the ball, he utilizes everyone on the court as an option, once in awhile he will pass it out.
His handle is much better than Westbrook's and he often plays the PG when the game is on the line in the closing games when they are all in.
He has a connection with Nick Collison, knowing Collison is very under rated and has the ability to score.
However, he loses some of his aggressiveness when Durant and Westbrook are both in.
He know's Durant deserves the ball over him as the leagues leading scorer again....
But with I think he know's he deserves the ball over Westbrook.While Tony Parker has a phenomenal year and Poppavich gave him a mouthful for one play vs OKC.
In fact he went off on Parker though out his career on many occasions.
He also went off on Stephen Jackson and Ginobili.
It is called "coaching"
These guys are all grown men, that are all stars, they just take it from him, if that was Melo, he would try to get him fired with a whole plan.Westbrook is a prima donna, he went from being a role player in college, and developed in to an amazing player in 1-2 years in the pros.
He was horrible his first year, considering what he does now. He was picked that high because of his ceiling, his athleticism, reach, strength, and size.
I know he is very competitive and worked very hard to become the player he is today.
But he turned in to an ALL STAR too fast and it really affected him in a negative way.When he takes his horrible shot selection and makes it, it is fools gold.
I thought after getting his max contract, he would stop playing this way, focusing more on defensive as a lock down defender.
He never had a good/great PG to mentor him, maybe getting a player like Kidd/Nash, would really help his development/understanding of the NBA game.
I know OKC, when playing from behind, their "big 3" doesn't trust their team mates as much, lacking ball movement.Westbrook has to understand HE IS NOT in the same category as Durant.
In fact, he also IS NOT, in the same category as Harden.
His #1 job is to play lock down defense and getting his team involved by setting them up.
Durant has the ability to take over games, take bad shots, and is the #1 alpha dog.
It is like he is trying to always prove he is an All Star, like OKC is his team, similar to Lebron/Wade on the Heat, his own version of Wade.
However, unlike Miami Heat, OKC has tremondous talent around them.
I hope Westbrook gets cured from his, CASS disease, Carmelo Anthony STATWhore Syndrome.
RONRON! I think 95% of us don't read your posts because they are TOO DAMN LONG! It's gotten to the point where I know it's you, I know it says something about OKC, and I skip it. But you have so much insight. Brevity bro. Brevity. It's your knew best friend.