Knicks · Nate and Jamal or similiar talent (page 1)

I think talentwise....this is what the Knicks need to add to the roster....

Nate Robinson is an offensive force off the bench. He can also play point guard better than we ever gave him credit for. The dude has paid his dues and I believe he's matured. He's been on the outside looking in alot since the Knicks traded him. Boston didn't want him, OKC didn't play him, Golden State gave him a shot after having sat in limbo without a contract all summer. He's a free agent again and he's not on anyones radars....he only made the veteran minimum last year. Regardless, he's a great one on one guy, can breakdown the defense, he doesn't get tired, he is fearless, and can shoot the lights out. Backing up Jeremy Lin we couldn't ask for anything more.

Jamal Crawford hands down is one of the best ball handlers in the league. He is a streaky shooter but he can score big time when he is hot. He is also a good passer and gets to the line pretty well. He is clutch everywhere on the court. The Knicks need that talent to replace the fearless bumb they had starting at shooting guard in Landry. Have Shump taking the starting spot eventually and then have Crawford come in in his usual role and the Knicks offensive game all of a sudden has no weaknesses.

Sub in a guy like OJ Mayo for Jamal or a guy that can score from the point spot instead of Nate and its the same. I bring these names up because they been here and never wanted to leave....The know what's at stake, and they would love to do it here in NYC. They understand the history and what it would mean to win here. I think they would be great for us.

I agree about Nate Robinson, he has matured a lot and has developed much since his departure.
He has a great 3point shot, added a mid range game, uses the PnR much better, is in great shape, can penetrate well, and break down defenses.
He can now play a scoring role as well as a facilitating role, can play off the ball, or with it, offensively he would fit in as a PG or SG, and would cheap (anywhere from 1.5 - 3m).

Nate will always be doubted because of his size but he really has improved, worked very hard on his game.
If we didn't have TD and/or Lin, I think it is a no brainer to go for N8te, but since we do, I would prefer a couple players before him.
Because none of these guys have a shot at defending SGs, which is why I would prefer a player that can play both guard spots.

Crawford, has also improved his all around game and facilitating role.
But he cannot break down defenses with his ability to penetrate, and is awful on defense despite his height and length/reach.
Both Nate and Crawford are UFA, so they can go wherever they please.
Crawford just opted out of his 5m year deal with Portland though, I am not sure if we would risk most our MLE on him.
If we were to use most of our MLE, I would prefer Dragic or Felton, since I can see them both coexisting with Lin on the floor together.

Gary Neal and Delonte West are 2 players I feel that can play both guard positions on both ends better than Nate and Crawford.
They both can hit the 3point shot consistently as well, would probably cost much less than Crawford.
Patty Mills is the better pure PG, with a good 3point shot too, but cannot defend SGs with his size.
I think SA will have to let Gary Neal or Patty Mills go, neither wants to stay as a 3rd option.
Danny Green is a great spot up shooter, that needs good looks, space, and needs to get squared up to get in rhythm.
Despite his size, he has poor foot speed/quickness, and wasn't exposed The Spurs played OKC.
He has more skills than Novak and can cost less or about the same.
Novak, also a tweener, is our poor man's stretch 4, while Green can play positions PG, SG, and SF.

In todays league, having 4 legit shooters to space the floor, with 2-3 players that can penetrate, and 2 post up players, all at the same to counter the elite defenses in the league.
Still being a good defensive team with such a line up, breaking down the defenses, and sharing the ball efficiently basically how Dallas was able to win a ring last year.
It is very hard to build such a team like that when Melo and Amare make so max salaries.

There's something about the storyline I like. Nate & Jamal had a lot of ups and downs with this team... insane and inane performances. I think Crawford would be great... could be like riding a bike fitting back in the New York mode, and he's not top banana but can break ankles and get his shot off, sometimes in ridiculous numbers. I like his demeanor. Nate is a spark plug and I have fond memories of the yoot movement... but I also remember screaming at the TV/radio/monitor (can't remember) when he shot that basket at the wrong basket.

Both players were useless on defense...nate due to his lack of size...jamal due to his lack of effort

This is a moot point now cuz jr is coming back...now must find front court depth

I don't want Jamal back at all- it's easy to get nostalgic about him because he seems a nice guy, but I remember most people grew to hate him as a player with his inconsistent offense and non-existent defense. Now he's on the decline, and I really don't see him playing well with Melo.

So yeah, if the choice was between Nate and Jamal, I'd sign nate simply because he's cheaper- haven't seen Nate play in a few years so I don't know if he still has maturity issues.

smackeddog wrote:I don't want Jamal back at all- it's easy to get nostalgic about him because he seems a nice guy, but I remember most people grew to hate him as a player with his inconsistent offense and non-existent defense. Now he's on the decline, and I really don't see him playing well with Melo.

So yeah, if the choice was between Nate and Jamal, I'd sign nate simply because he's cheaper- haven't seen Nate play in a few years so I don't know if he still has maturity issues.

this is my issue with most peoples analysis of Jamal's time as a Knick. He was never supposed to be the 1st or 2nd offensive option for this team. Alan Houston was supposed to be that guy with Jamal backing him up. When Houston became a no show, Jamal was thrust into a role to big for him. Is that his fault or, is it on the team and coach. I put that on the latter, not Jamal.

On this team as presently composed, he would not be expected to do nearly as much and, defense is also a team responsibility. Done right, it could, if not mask his flaws, limit them.

where has Nate matured? Seems to me he can't stick.

The little freak can make a good buck overseas.

More talent per inch than any player in the league but his brain is smaller than his height.

Jamal im fine with in a back up role but I don't think we can afford him unless he wants years. He did very well with WOodson in ATL.

Id rather him over JR Smith.

Nalod wrote:where has Nate matured? Seems to me he can't stick.

The little freak can make a good buck overseas.

More talent per inch than any player in the league but his brain is smaller than his height.

Jamal im fine with in a back up role but I don't think we can afford him unless he wants years. He did very well with WOodson in ATL.

Id rather him over JR Smith.

I would rather have Crawford over Smith for the simple reason that Jamal has no problem scoring on Wade, matter of fact Crawford makes Wade look silly trying to guard him.

it looks like we are getting that guy back... JR Smith

Nalod wrote:where has Nate matured? Seems to me he can't stick.

The little freak can make a good buck overseas.

More talent per inch than any player in the league but his brain is smaller than his height.

Jamal im fine with in a back up role but I don't think we can afford him unless he wants years. He did very well with WOodson in ATL.

Id rather him over JR Smith.

Would u rather pay twice the amount for him because thats what it will cost.

Jmpasq wrote:

Nalod wrote:where has Nate matured? Seems to me he can't stick.

The little freak can make a good buck overseas.

More talent per inch than any player in the league but his brain is smaller than his height.

Jamal im fine with in a back up role but I don't think we can afford him unless he wants years. He did very well with WOodson in ATL.

Id rather him over JR Smith.

Would u rather pay twice the amount for him because thats what it will cost.

The question was which one.

My choice......Neither.

You are right, the money won't be there.

Crawford is a lot better than smith

VDesai wrote:Crawford is a lot better than smith

and he was a much better Knick than people give him credit for. I always though of him as eh little guard that could. Not an all star level talent but, a good piece for any team (if used correctly).

VDesai wrote:Crawford is a lot better than smith

Smith is a much better defender

Nalod wrote:where has Nate matured? Seems to me he can't stick.

The little freak can make a good buck overseas.

More talent per inch than any player in the league but his brain is smaller than his height.

Jamal im fine with in a back up role but I don't think we can afford him unless he wants years. He did very well with WOodson in ATL.

Id rather him over JR Smith.

I watched him play in Golden State, he is much improved from his days in New York.
From running the PnR, with the pass, mid range game, and he is a good 3point shooter.
He will always be doubted because of his size and he does use that as motivation to improve.
He can set up the offense, much better than anyone we have after Lin, and with the ability to penetrate/break down the defense.
Those were the things, along with consistenticy, he lacked when he was in New York.

Nate Robinson's game log

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3947...

Brandon Rush's game log

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4475...

Brandon Rush is a perfect player that could play defense, good rebounder, runs the floor well, good length/reach, spread the floor with good 3point %, and good FG %, doesn't take bad shots.
He is good compliment player to Iman/Tyson Chandler, capable of playing both SG/SF, and do things Fields couldn't in his role.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nate come back. The Knicks need to make a backcourt signing like they did with Jeffries. A vet minimum for a vet that can play.

I feel Miami exposed the knicks ability to score....the knicks only had melo....jr smith priced he can't create or make good decisions but he diss play with effort. He's not a 3rd option.....knicks need a 3rd option or at least more guts that can play with skill and effort. Singe guys that can drop at last 15 points on any given night to help out. The knicks don't have enough of that.

I feel with jorts, and Jordan the knicks have good depth up front. Lamar Odom would be nice, but right now all the knicks have is jr smith.....Landry should not be back and Shump is basically out until the all star break. Knicks need back court skill. Scoring, ball handling and fearlessness.

EnySpree wrote:I feel Miami exposed the knicks ability to score....the knicks only had melo....jr smith priced he can't create or make good decisions but he diss play with effort. He's not a 3rd option.....knicks need a 3rd option or at least more guts that can play with skill and effort. Singe guys that can drop at last 15 points on any given night to help out. The knicks don't have enough of that.

I feel with jorts, and Jordan the knicks have good depth up front. Lamar Odom would be nice, but right now all the knicks have is jr smith.....Landry should not be back and Shump is basically out until the all star break. Knicks need back court skill. Scoring, ball handling and fearlessness.

that's why I like the Jamal-pipe dream. He can create his own shot against nearly anyone and, as a plus, has a habit of showing up big against Miami. Wade himself, said that when trying to get him so sign in Miami when he was a fa

EnySpree wrote:I feel Miami exposed the knicks ability to score....the knicks only had melo....jr smith priced he can't create or make good decisions but he diss play with effort. He's not a 3rd option.....knicks need a 3rd option or at least more guts that can play with skill and effort. Singe guys that can drop at last 15 points on any given night to help out. The knicks don't have enough of that.

I feel with jorts, and Jordan the knicks have good depth up front. Lamar Odom would be nice, but right now all the knicks have is jr smith.....Landry should not be back and Shump is basically out until the all star break. Knicks need back court skill. Scoring, ball handling and fearlessness.

Totally agree, the way to beat that type of defense, is sharing the ball, making plays with options, and attacking their defenses.
Breaking down the defense, having post options, players that can penetrate, spread the floor with shooters, as they can recover quickly, move you need movement off the ball, and to share it effectively.
Definitely, not with Iso heavy and 1v1 ball, because they can predict how you will score, when we will take a shot as they will be ready to be in rebounding position and RUN BACK on us with Lebron/Wade impossible to stop on the fast break without a set DEFENSE. A team style offense like The Suns/Spurs/Dallas last year, is what we must become, and be a good defensive team as the same time. A player like Dragic gives us 2 legit PG/SGs, would give us 2 players that can break down the defense, and create for the team. I think he will get much more but I am I think he would be a great player if he has any interest in coming to the Knicks. Unlike Nash, he can coexist with Lin together, and be the backup PG. Felton would probably be the next best thing after Dragic. Terrence Williams could be the cheapest option of the bench, could help PG a bit, with G/F size.

For our PF, he must be a solid defender that can spread the floor, and be a post option. He would be the glue to Melo, with 2 penetration guards, and would be tough to guard if he can score inside and out. His ability to spread the floor, would allow Melo to post up, something he cannot do with Amare and Tyson together because of their inability to spread the floor. Like a Dirk Nowistki or a Ilyasova, type of player would be perfect. That type of player just does not come cheap though. AK47 and Odom are probably the best available options.
Melo would also have to learn to play OFF the ball, move off the ball *not necessarily for an assist but to the open man so someone will be open*, fighting for position for a post presence and rebounds, and how he can draw defenders to get others good looks.

I would target Ilyasova first and find cheaper options elsewhere with the FULL MLE, like Gary Neal.
Beasley could be available if Twolves do not pick up his final year qualifying offer of about 8.2m.
Kevin Garnet and Dragic, would be my other options. Sessions has the ability to penetrate that was ineffective when the Lakers got back Kobe Bryant to be their Iso player.
He was a totally different player and was unable to fit in with shots when Kobe returned with shots to feed Bynum and Gasol to feed as well.

The other cheaper options for a stretch forward, would be Nic Batum as a RFA, and Chase Budlinger, waiting for Twolves to pick up his option.