nixluva wrote:Way too many Knick fans are not seeing this is a WIN NOW TEAM!!!! If you can add a player that makes EVERYONE better and has tons of experience then you have to do it. I hate losing Shump but this is not a rebuilding young team! Nash, Lin, Melo, STAT n Tyson is a title ready lineup!!! Then we still have the ability to add more using MLE, LLE... This is a no brainer!!!! 
We must get more out of what we have and that's what Nash does best.
That lineup can't defend. Also, as good as the heat are, they showed this season that it still take quality role players to win.
I understand this deal, but I really think Shump is going to be a very special player in this league. Sigh.
ATrain wrote:nixluva wrote:Way too many Knick fans are not seeing this is a WIN NOW TEAM!!!! If you can add a player that makes EVERYONE better and has tons of experience then you have to do it. I hate losing Shump but this is not a rebuilding young team! Nash, Lin, Melo, STAT n Tyson is a title ready lineup!!! Then we still have the ability to add more using MLE, LLE... This is a no brainer!!!! We must get more out of what we have and that's what Nash does best.
That lineup can't defend. Also, as good as the heat are, they showed this season that it still take quality role players to win.
I think whether Melo ca fit in with the others or even wants to will be the big question. And the defense is really lousy, Shump would be the ideal two guard in that situation.
I guess some forget that Miami played top notch defense in the playoffs.
Nash and Amare are bad defenders plain and simple.
Nash is also one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league. A career 42.8% from 3 pt and a career 90.4 free throw %. He is what we need with Melo so we have an inside/outside threat. Bring back Novak and we have a double outside threat.
ATrain wrote:nixluva wrote:Way too many Knick fans are not seeing this is a WIN NOW TEAM!!!! If you can add a player that makes EVERYONE better and has tons of experience then you have to do it. I hate losing Shump but this is not a rebuilding young team! Nash, Lin, Melo, STAT n Tyson is a title ready lineup!!! Then we still have the ability to add more using MLE, LLE... This is a no brainer!!!! We must get more out of what we have and that's what Nash does best.
That lineup can't defend. Also, as good as the heat are, they showed this season that it still take quality role players to win.
I disagree!!!! Our starters couldn't score last year. It was our bench that did all the real defending, not the starters. As long as you have STAT N MELO in there you will not have great D. BUT... You can have GREAT OFFENSE!!! STAT over 50%, Nash 50% and Tyson over 50%! As long as u have Nash it will maximize the talent you have and that includes your stars as well as role players. Nash almost got the Suns in the playoffs and they had NOTHING!
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--knicks...According to this, we are frontrunners with a package of Shumpert, Douglas and Gadzuric.
What do you guys think about that package? Of course losing Shump would suck, but as a package how do you see the move?
It's a little too much to give up...If we trade Shump for the money Nash is looking for, we have no choice but to let Lin walk as well...We aren't going to pay Nash, Lin and luxury tax...
Shumpert, Douglas, and Gadzuric is not a big deal.
My issue is wasting those assets to pay Nash 10 million per.
Make a deal for Beasley or Mayo.
loweyecue wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You can't get a guy still playing at a Hall-of-Fame level for free. Shump is just an injured role player. This is still a steal.
Our roster will have 4 stars, no depth and no perimeter defense. And our average age will be 29 or 30? Now Nash is an awesome player, good teammmate and a stand up guy. A lot will depend on whether he can make Amare look like amare again and whether Melo is willing to share the spotlight. I would say there is a 60% chance of the first and a 30% chance of the second, combined that's about 18% chance of success. I think shumpert is easily the second best defender on the team and has at least a 50% chance of recovery and would be great for us for years to come. I don't see this as a good trade.
Oh, and I d idn't even factor in how bad our perimeter defense will be.
These percentages are crazy. Nash played at a hall-of-fame level last year. Players rarely deteriorate a lot in one year. I'll give it an 80 to 90% chance that he plays at a high all-star level next year. Amare is crap with Shumpert anyway. So you can't discount Amare only on the Nash side of the equation.
In contrast, right now no matter how much people over-value home-grown talent, shumpert is a liability on offense. At best, I think his net impact as a starter is 0 - well-below average on offense and well above-average on defense. Best case scenario is that he (a) returns and stays healthy and (b) actually improves this season. I'd give 50% chance to the first part and, given the injury, 20% to the second. The point is that just to become a net positive, he needs to do two things that both have to be discounted: stay healthy and improve his game. Nash doesn't need anything to change in order to be a strong net positive.
holfresh wrote:It's a little too much to give up...If we trade Shump for the money Nash is looking for, we have no choice but to let Lin walk as well...We aren't going to pay Nash, Lin and luxury tax...
We are not letting Lin walk and Dolan WILL pay the luxury tax.
I say this deal is dead if we need to include TD
nixluva wrote:ATrain wrote:nixluva wrote:Way too many Knick fans are not seeing this is a WIN NOW TEAM!!!! If you can add a player that makes EVERYONE better and has tons of experience then you have to do it. I hate losing Shump but this is not a rebuilding young team! Nash, Lin, Melo, STAT n Tyson is a title ready lineup!!! Then we still have the ability to add more using MLE, LLE... This is a no brainer!!!! We must get more out of what we have and that's what Nash does best.
That lineup can't defend. Also, as good as the heat are, they showed this season that it still take quality role players to win.
I disagree!!!! Our starters couldn't score last year. It was our bench that did all the real defending, not the starters. As long as you have STAT N MELO in there you will not have great D. BUT... You can have GREAT OFFENSE!!! STAT over 50%, Nash 50% and Tyson over 50%! As long as u have Nash it will maximize the talent you have and that includes your stars as well as role players. Nash almost got the Suns in the playoffs and they had NOTHING!
You do realize that with the exception of JR and One Trick Pony Novak all of our "bench defenders" will be going to Phx for Nash. What you are saying is all good and great for the regular season, but does not help us in the playoffs. Nobody is questioning Nash's ability to make this team better but in order for this squad to be championship contenders, we need ALL the pieces. And that includes Shumpert.
Eastern Conference:
Bulls - Derrick Rose
Boston - Rondo
Miami - Dwade
Nets - Deron
All these guys are top players who Shumpert did a great job defending against. We can't beat any of these teams in a playoff series with having these guys shut down.
AnubisADL wrote:I guess some forget that Miami played top notch defense in the playoffs.Nash and Amare are bad defenders plain and simple.
what was our record against the heat with shump in the line up, i recall 0-4.
Knicksfan wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--knicks...According to this, we are frontrunners with a package of Shumpert, Douglas and Gadzuric.
What do you guys think about that package? Of course losing Shump would suck, but as a package how do you see the move?
I do this right now! Close the deal!
Shump is injured; may not play at all next year, and can't shoot from outside. Altho I love his D and tenacity. Toney Doug played very poorly last year (23% from 3 pt and 2 assists/game) and has also been injured. Gadzuric is old and played in only 2 games for us for a total of 13 minutes with 0 pts.
We get rid of $5 mil in salary and take on some more with Nash. Getting Nash is a no brainer for this package.
knicks1248 wrote:AnubisADL wrote:I guess some forget that Miami played top notch defense in the playoffs.Nash and Amare are bad defenders plain and simple.
what was our record against the heat with shump in the line up, i recall 0-4.
pretty much and we had no real pg which was the main reason why miami beat us
IrishKnickFan wrote:gunsnewing wrote:We are talking about a trading a 21yr old for a 40yr old pg
well to be fair he is 37 and is a 2 time mvp. Shump who i love is a great defender but doesnt have an offensive game and he suffered a very serious injury that who knows how long it may take him to get back to normal
shouldn't we be really really really fair and just say Nash is 38?
martin wrote:IrishKnickFan wrote:gunsnewing wrote:We are talking about a trading a 21yr old for a 40yr old pg
well to be fair he is 37 and is a 2 time mvp. Shump who i love is a great defender but doesnt have an offensive game and he suffered a very serious injury that who knows how long it may take him to get back to normal
shouldn't we be really really really fair and just say Nash is 38?
You are right he is 38 my bad
I personally think that JR is a better player than shump for the knicks - to play along side Nash
You know, Melo takes a lot of shit for not coming in free agency and "making us lose all of our talented young players" but Nash is innocent? If he wants NY why won't he just come out and say it so that we can hold on to our leverage...not giving up our potential all star?
Another angle: since there is no chance that Lin is leaving, is there a better option out there than Steve Nash to mentor the kid?
mrKnickShot wrote:I personally think that JR is a better player than shump for the knicks - to play along side Nash
Good point i mean i really like shump but people are overrating him bigtime
