Knicks · Do we really need a SG? (page 2)
loweyecue wrote:Sign JR and trade him and TD to Detroit for Rip.
and then Joe can have a big laugh.
Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
Redd is back from his injuries and getting better all the time. He would be an ideal player at SG coming off the bench. I never said it was about Novak or Redd. I would like to have both on the team. The more shooters the better. Knee injuries take time to comeback from and Redd is getting his form back this is what the Knicks will have to go through with Shump. Its a process and Redd is finally coming around to his original form.
Vmart wrote:VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
Redd is back from his injuries and getting better all the time. He would be an ideal player at SG coming off the bench. I never said it was about Novak or Redd. I would like to have both on the team. The more shooters the better. Knee injuries take time to comeback from and Redd is getting his form back this is what the Knicks will have to go through with Shump. Its a process and Redd is finally coming around to his original form.
I agree, you can never use enough shooters.
A reason why I feel Novak is not worth keeping with so many veteran min players that can shoot just as good, younger players with more skill set, and players that play much better D if they do not shoot as well. Again, it could be the difference between having the 5m MLE and maybe even a BAE at 1.9m.
So each contract makes a difference, as well as opening roster spots to fill. I would say sorry, if he wants 3m for sure.
I think his shooting can be replaced by players like Danny Green as a better option and younger, while moving Melo to PF at times.
RonRon wrote:Vmart wrote:VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
Redd is back from his injuries and getting better all the time. He would be an ideal player at SG coming off the bench. I never said it was about Novak or Redd. I would like to have both on the team. The more shooters the better. Knee injuries take time to comeback from and Redd is getting his form back this is what the Knicks will have to go through with Shump. Its a process and Redd is finally coming around to his original form.
I agree, you can never use enough shooters.
A reason why I feel Novak is not worth keeping with so many veteran min players that can shoot just as good, younger players with more skill set, and players that play much better D if they do not shoot as well. Again, it could be the difference between having the 5m MLE and maybe even a BAE at 1.9m.
So each contract makes a difference, as well as opening roster spots to fill. I would say sorry, if he wants 3m for sure.
I think his shooting can be replaced by players like Danny Green as a better option and younger, while moving Melo to PF at times.
I agree Novak just isn't a threat off the dribble and that played right into the Heat plan. They knew if you crowd Novak he won't get his shot off and he doesn't have the ability to go by anyone. His defense is suspect. I think there are better options out there, Shawne Williams is just one name that would be an upgrade.
but we have to sacrifice because of the contracts of Amare and Melo.
I think 2m is the right number, but I know he will leave for that, 2.2 starting salary 3 year deal?
But with Veteran Min players, Undrafted players, and younger shooters with more skill sets that will be in the same price range that he wants, I just don't think he is worth it.
It call comes down to if we unload TD's contract, if JR Smith Resigns, if we can do S&T for Kidd, and the final numbers of getting the 5m MLE and BAE or not.
There are many shooters out there, as FA's and undrafted players, how much more is Novak really worth over those guys?
So a portion of the MLE can go to Camby, we can still add shooters, and 2 way players that fit this "clumsy" team much better.
I am just saying, if we can sign and trade for Kidd, have a 5m MLE, and a BAE, Novak is replaceable with a veterans minimum player.
So we have much more roster if we unload TD, Jordan, Fields *goner*, Novak, and 2 open roster spots to begin with *not counting Chris Smith but I think he will be a Knick to keep JR happy*
PG Lin/Kidd
SG Lee/JR/(Shump ..take your time)
SF Melo/Novak
PF Stat/JJ
C Tyson/Camby
upgrades:
Baron-->Kidd
Fields-->Lee
Harrelson-->Camby
Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
what? Redd was never a breakdown player.
And he shot 40% from the field last year. And definitely does not defend.
Again, what does he bring to the Knicks that Novak role doesn't fill or that JR or a young SG can't bring?
I am thinking that the Knicks prob bring over that PG from Spain to fill the 3rd PG/sometimes SG role.
martin wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
what? Redd was never a breakdown player.
And he shot 40% from the field last year. And definitely does not defend.
Again, what does he bring to the Knicks that Novak role doesn't fill or that JR or a young SG can't bring?
I am thinking that the Knicks prob bring over that PG from Spain to fill the 3rd PG/sometimes SG role.
Redd brings a lot to the table. Redd has the ability to put the ball on the floor. Yes he had a poor shooting year. But he came back in middle of the season and still recovering from his knee injury. Towards the end of the season mostly the last month Redds numbers got significantly better. If Knicks sign Smith than I don't see why the Knicks shouldn't sign Redd to back up Smith.
If the Knicks don't sign Redd other players I would consider is Meeks, Willie Green, Pietrus for the SG spot.
Think Grunweld needs help, should invite these guys to their summer league.
He is too busy with many trying to help the team via trade and with FAs.
But we have roster spots to fill, think there are still plenty of guys that went undrafted that can contribute.
He has to be more proactive about it, with such a deep draft, there will be players that fall off.
I see these guys with the potential of Laundry Field's rookie year, with a better shot, and more killed.
Vmart wrote:VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
Redd is back from his injuries and getting better all the time. He would be an ideal player at SG coming off the bench. I never said it was about Novak or Redd. I would like to have both on the team. The more shooters the better. Knee injuries take time to comeback from and Redd is getting his form back this is what the Knicks will have to go through with Shump. Its a process and Redd is finally coming around to his original form.
I need more evidence than him playing 15mpg in 51 games last season before I'm willing to say he's back from his injuries. Also, he really only had one good month in April. The rest of the season, January through March, he was bad.
VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:VCoug wrote:Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Don't pass up on Redd. For the money the Knicks have to spend he would be a damn good pick.I dont get this... what's Redd giving you that Novak won't?
An ability to create a shot.
Maybe, if he was actually on the court. The dude can't play anymore, period. He has an extremely long injury history and he'll be 33 when the season begins.
Redd is back from his injuries and getting better all the time. He would be an ideal player at SG coming off the bench. I never said it was about Novak or Redd. I would like to have both on the team. The more shooters the better. Knee injuries take time to comeback from and Redd is getting his form back this is what the Knicks will have to go through with Shump. Its a process and Redd is finally coming around to his original form.
I need more evidence than him playing 15mpg in 51 games last season before I'm willing to say he's back from his injuries. Also, he really only had one good month in April. The rest of the season, January through March, he was bad.
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.
Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.
RonRon wrote:
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.
Sure, Redd might be cheaper but I trust Novak to actually stay healthy. And if we match Lin's deal, sign Kidd and Camby, and resign JR there's pretty much no way we'll still have the full MLE or the BAE.
VCoug wrote:RonRon wrote:
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.Sure, Redd might be cheaper but I trust Novak to actually stay healthy. And if we match Lin's deal, sign Kidd and Camby, and resign JR there's pretty much no way we'll still have the full MLE or the BAE.
Yeah, but there are a lot of if's in between.
If JR stays for under his market value...
IF we can manage to trade for Kidd or Camby.
IF another team does not try to screw us up again...
If Novak is willing to take slightly less to stay, considering this is probably his one and last chance to make his best contract.
That was why I didn't want to target Nash to begin with, I didn't think Lin and his agent would like appreciate that.
But if you told him to take less money so we can get the 5m MLE to use on another position, while retaining Novak, and the core players that would compliment Lin, there would be a better chance, giving Lin a player option to benefit the team and him staying in NY.
How would you feel if you were Lin? Would you take less $ to a player that could steal your job and make you a possible trade asset, the way we have been willing to break up players from our track record?
VCoug wrote:RonRon wrote:
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.Sure, Redd might be cheaper but I trust Novak to actually stay healthy. And if we match Lin's deal, sign Kidd and Camby, and resign JR there's pretty much no way we'll still have the full MLE or the BAE.
Yeah, but there are a lot of if's in between.
If JR stays for under his market value...
IF we can manage to trade for Kidd or Camby.
IF another team does not try to screw us up again...
If Novak is willing to take slightly less to stay, considering this is probably his one and last chance to make his best contract.
That was why I didn't want to target Nash to begin with, I didn't think Lin and his agent would like appreciate that.
But if you told him to take less money so we can get the 5m MLE to use on another position, while retaining Novak, and the core players that would compliment Lin, there would be a better chance, giving Lin a player option to benefit the team and him staying in NY.
How would you feel if you were Lin? Would you take less $ to a player that could steal your job and make you a possible trade asset, the way we have been willing to break up players from our track record?
RonRon wrote:I don't think Lin was taking less to help the Knicks and it wasn't about his loyalty to the team. Lin switched agents before negotiating his current contract. I think he understood his position perfectly and while I am sure he wants the opportunity to play for the Knicks, help them win and fulfill his contract, he also has to take care of himself. The Knicks said they would resign Lin and they also said they would let the market determine his contract. I don't see anything wrong with that. I keep reading these wild scenarios where you have the Knicks getting the 5 mil mle and I am not sure why they keep coming up. I think it is ridiculous to expect Lin to take less money when he was waived by two teams last year. He may only have one big contract. It is not a reflection on his character and I doubt that he was offended that the Knicks went after the best player available at the point. The Knicks are not going to have the 5 mil mle and they didn't lose it because they pursued Nash.VCoug wrote:RonRon wrote:
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.Sure, Redd might be cheaper but I trust Novak to actually stay healthy. And if we match Lin's deal, sign Kidd and Camby, and resign JR there's pretty much no way we'll still have the full MLE or the BAE.
Yeah, but there are a lot of if's in between.
If JR stays for under his market value...
IF we can manage to trade for Kidd or Camby.IF another team does not try to screw us up again...
If Novak is willing to take slightly less to stay, considering this is probably his one and last chance to make his best contract.
That was why I didn't want to target Nash to begin with, I didn't think Lin and his agent would like appreciate that.
But if you told him to take less money so we can get the 5m MLE to use on another position, while retaining Novak, and the core players that would compliment Lin, there would be a better chance, giving Lin a player option to benefit the team and him staying in NY.
How would you feel if you were Lin? Would you take less $ to a player that could steal your job and make you a possible trade asset, the way we have been willing to break up players from our track record?
CrushAlot wrote:RonRon wrote:I don't think Lin was taking less to help the Knicks and it wasn't about his loyalty to the team. Lin switched agents before negotiating his current contract. I think he understood his position perfectly and while I am sure he wants the opportunity to play for the Knicks, help them win and fulfill his contract, he also has to take care of himself. The Knicks said they would resign Lin and they also said they would let the market determine his contract. I don't see anything wrong with that. I keep reading these wild scenarios where you have the Knicks getting the 5 mil mle and I am not sure why they keep coming up. I think it is ridiculous to expect Lin to take less money when he was waived by two teams last year. He may only have one big contract. It is not a reflection on his character and I doubt that he was offended that the Knicks went after the best player available at the point. The Knicks are not going to have the 5 mil mle and they didn't lose it because they pursued Nash.VCoug wrote:RonRon wrote:
Its a vet minimum vs 2-3m that Novak is looking for.
When they both can't create their own shot.
Redd is probably worse on DEF though.
Rather have Anthony Tolliver, at a cheaper price than Novak, with Redd playing part of Novak's limited role.Especially if it is difference between having the 5m MLE or not, with possible BAE.
Players like Danny Green, Gary Neal, Dunleavy, Delfino all have just as good as a stroke, with other skills.
They could all cost less or the same as Novak.Sure, Redd might be cheaper but I trust Novak to actually stay healthy. And if we match Lin's deal, sign Kidd and Camby, and resign JR there's pretty much no way we'll still have the full MLE or the BAE.
Yeah, but there are a lot of if's in between.
If JR stays for under his market value...
IF we can manage to trade for Kidd or Camby.IF another team does not try to screw us up again...
If Novak is willing to take slightly less to stay, considering this is probably his one and last chance to make his best contract.
That was why I didn't want to target Nash to begin with, I didn't think Lin and his agent would like appreciate that.
But if you told him to take less money so we can get the 5m MLE to use on another position, while retaining Novak, and the core players that would compliment Lin, there would be a better chance, giving Lin a player option to benefit the team and him staying in NY.
How would you feel if you were Lin? Would you take less $ to a player that could steal your job and make you a possible trade asset, the way we have been willing to break up players from our track record?
What I am saying is, lets say we targeted Beasley with our MLE, and asked Lin to take slightly less, with Novak, as well.
Or Splitting the MLE with 2 players, that wouldn't threaten Lin's ability to start.
Lets say 2 out of the 3, Gary Neal/Mahimi/Terrence Williams if we split the MLE.
Then pick up Scott Machado or Delonte West as PGs if a PG is not used in the MLE.
Lin 4.5m, Novak, 2.2m, with player options for the next 2 years, so we can have full Bird rights, then reward him.
It really isn't that much of a difference, if Lin is the real deal.
It allows us to get much better this season though.
But by going for Nash, its a slap to Lin's face.
If Lin signs for cheaper, he instantly becomes a possible trading asset/pawn.
But if we don't have a player to threaten his position, it is MUCH MORE LIKELY to happen.
TLover wrote:I think unrestricted free agent Marco Belinelli would be a nice addition bc he can shoot. He & a healthy Shump would be a nice 2 guard combo.
I think he is a bum, rather have undrafted rookie
We don't need a poor version of Novak, he cannot even defend SGs or PGs as well.
Rather have veteran minimum players like Delonte West, Kapono, Anthony Tolliver, D leaguers, and Euro players.
Alex Young and Hollis Thompson
I am pretty sure Metta WOrld Peace will get amnestied, he should clear waivers, he would be a slow/strong undersized PF or slow SF.