Knicks · Knicks give up Greek draft pick in Felton trade (page 2)

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Isn't this the same pick people were crying about on draft night, claiming we wasted it and he wouldn't come over for years if at all? Now it's been traded and it's a terrible, tragic loss.

Yep, it's worrying we have no assets, but as Lin and Fields have shown, under this cba it's going to be impossible to keep them anyway once it's time to get paid. Better to get cap space and poach another teams player (which they can't keep due to the new cba). In 3 yrs we can either rebuild or retool.

We're not getting cap space, what are you talking about? For the next three years, the length of Lin's contract, we're in cap hell anyway.

In 3yrs all our contracts expire, we can then use that cap space to reload. Until then, as you said, we're locked in.

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

Has to do with a mindset. On another post I said the Greek would be gone soon, although I did not expect it to be this soon. Shumpert will be next.

One of the nice things about following a team is watching your young players mature and become productive. This is especially true in the NFL and MLB. They all don't work out, but that is how things go.

We've become a team with no youth and we are going to be dependent on whether or not the appropriate set of free agents are all available when the respective contracts of our present crop of players end. Young players, especially those who are part of a good franchise, are given a chance to play minor minutes, learn a system, and eventually emerge as starters. We have obviously decided that this is not a good idea.

Dolan is trying to build a team around 2 second level stars, one of whom may never be the player he was if his back does not heal, the other a guy who has decided that the team's offense has to revolve around him or he is not going to give a 100% effort. We now have 4 players who are 35 years of age, or more, and 3 who are 38 and above.

Can't wait for Herb Williams to suit up again, and Allan Houston to make a comeback.

Im glad you have said that paladin. Ive been saying that for the past 3 years.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

I was not a fan of him during the draft at all either.
But after looking more in to him and giving some more though, I feel we actually did get a real steal with him.

I like the Euro player as PF/C on our roster, A. Parakhouski and Copeland, with a roster spots to develop with a 2year non guaranteed contracts.
Both players would most likely be on our inactive list, but be used for practice and development.
As the year progresses, I can see both players contributing if an injury happens.

Also, with the age of some of our newer acquisitions, I would look to give them days off much like Poppavich does with Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker.
I know Woodson's history suggest he does not play much rookies but without any 2nd round picks in the near future, i think it would be a great move.
Would like to add a solid PF/C that can rebound/block shots like Ivan Johnson that can play with Tyson Chandler/Camby and back them up as well.

Another thing about Felton is, he is a PENETRATE first guard, and we don't have any guards that have such ability outside of Lin whom might not be here whether we match the offer sheet or not.
Randy Foye and Gary Neal are possibly players that we could have traded for without giving up Papa, but they are shooters to spread the floor first, and penetrate 2nd.
Kidd is a 3rd option in penetration playing G/F, that be similar to Foye/Gary Neals role.
The only other penetrate first guard, that we could probably get for less value that I think we can get is Nate Robinson and maybe Terrence Williams.
Although he is much improved and matured much, he will always be doubted because of his size and defensive liabilities.

JR Smith and Iman Shumpert both are not great as secondary penetration players, with health concerns of Iman.
JR is a shoot first player to spread the floor ,when a player can penetrate for him to get good looks, and while he would be ahead of Kidd as a penetration option, he is not a good decision maker and facilitator.

Did we also get back the draft rights from Portland?
Did we give up a 2016 2nd round pick?
And what deals did Jeffries and Raymond Felton get?

CrushAlot wrote:I would love to read a stat showing how many teams regretted trading the 48th pick in the draft. I get being pissed about the Lin deal but this trade was a slam dunk for the Knicks.

He really was a steal, we can't say that, don't forget where Lin was drafted, not to mention Manu, Stephen Jackson, Monta Ellis, Louis Scola, Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson?, and many more in the 2nd round picks.

Sending out Melo to the Nets for Wallace/Humphries and a future 1st round pick back to the Knicks?
I really would embrace it, I am just saying.

With the way way our current team is constructed, they could all share the ball, and we would be a great defensive team, with shooters to space the floor.
With the Olympics, I think we will have his all time high/ in terms of value as a Knick, during the trade deadline this year.
As he will be off to a good start, coming to camp in shape, and repeating history like he did by going to WCF 2 years ago in Denver.
I know there are Melo supporters here and Lin as well, I think there is big tension between these 2 players, as they feel each have earned the right to play 2 complete different styles that compliment their games.

Regardless, I think not matching Lin's deal is a big mistake.
What to do in after we match, to keep him, or trade him, we should worry about later not now.

However,instead of sending Papa out, sending a future 1st round pick, if we could have, and while getting back a 2nd round pick, would probably be better in this situation.
We could use 3m min MLE or part of it, like what Bucks did with Ilyasova, to prevent a future poison pill, with a 3 year guaranteed deal, and get his bull rights with a TEAM that can play off one another.

Knicksfan wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

Has to do with a mindset. On another post I said the Greek would be gone soon, although I did not expect it to be this soon. Shumpert will be next.

One of the nice things about following a team is watching your young players mature and become productive. This is especially true in the NFL and MLB. They all don't work out, but that is how things go.

We've become a team with no youth and we are going to be dependent on whether or not the appropriate set of free agents are all available when the respective contracts of our present crop of players end. Young players, especially those who are part of a good franchise, are given a chance to play minor minutes, learn a system, and eventually emerge as starters. We have obviously decided that this is not a good idea.

Dolan is trying to build a team around 2 second level stars, one of whom may never be the player he was if his back does not heal, the other a guy who has decided that the team's offense has to revolve around him or he is not going to give a 100% effort. We now have 4 players who are 35 years of age, or more, and 3 who are 38 and above.

Can't wait for Herb Williams to suit up again, and Allan Houston to make a comeback.

Good point about Stat - we hope he is ok. And IF he isn't, our other great scorer in Lin is gone.

Draft express btw - had Papa as the #1 rated International prospect. We traded that and more for Felton? The Brooklyn (where I'm born) Nets are looking better and better as an outlet. That would piss Dolan off if the fan base starts to leave.

Have fun rooting for the Nets.

Thanks Bro. Even with our team being run into the ground for years, it's nice you can overlook all that.
But me and others ain't gone yet, but thanks for the wishes.

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

Has to do with a mindset. On another post I said the Greek would be gone soon, although I did not expect it to be this soon. Shumpert will be next.

One of the nice things about following a team is watching your young players mature and become productive. This is especially true in the NFL and MLB. They all don't work out, but that is how things go.

We've become a team with no youth and we are going to be dependent on whether or not the appropriate set of free agents are all available when the respective contracts of our present crop of players end. Young players, especially those who are part of a good franchise, are given a chance to play minor minutes, learn a system, and eventually emerge as starters. We have obviously decided that this is not a good idea.

Dolan is trying to build a team around 2 second level stars, one of whom may never be the player he was if his back does not heal, the other a guy who has decided that the team's offense has to revolve around him or he is not going to give a 100% effort. We now have 4 players who are 35 years of age, or more, and 3 who are 38 and above.

Can't wait for Herb Williams to suit up again, and Allan Houston to make a comeback.

I understand where you are coming from.

I disagree though. Im glad the Knicks are going ALL IN with trying to win now. Most stars arent going to be found with low first rounders and 2nd rounders.

We have to make due with what we have.

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

The problem is that there should not have been any reason to do an of this. Dolan's just looking for reasons to overpay players and give away as many draft picks as possible. He did the same thing (throw away picks) with the Camby S & T. He did the same thing the past 12 years actually.

Do you hear yourself. Knicks are trying to compete for a championship. That means rolling with the vets. They are trying to win as many games as possible to ensure a high draft seed. No time for developing players.

This is as clear as day. Knicks are being very transparent with their intent to compete RIGHT NOW. They are acquiring proven vets.

I couldn't agree more. However, they still need to sign Lin. If you're pushing all your chips to the center of the table make sure you don't let someone steal a chip from your stack just before you push all in.

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

Has to do with a mindset. On another post I said the Greek would be gone soon, although I did not expect it to be this soon. Shumpert will be next.

One of the nice things about following a team is watching your young players mature and become productive. This is especially true in the NFL and MLB. They all don't work out, but that is how things go.

We've become a team with no youth and we are going to be dependent on whether or not the appropriate set of free agents are all available when the respective contracts of our present crop of players end. Young players, especially those who are part of a good franchise, are given a chance to play minor minutes, learn a system, and eventually emerge as starters. We have obviously decided that this is not a good idea.

Dolan is trying to build a team around 2 second level stars, one of whom may never be the player he was if his back does not heal, the other a guy who has decided that the team's offense has to revolve around him or he is not going to give a 100% effort. We now have 4 players who are 35 years of age, or more, and 3 who are 38 and above.

Can't wait for Herb Williams to suit up again, and Allan Houston to make a comeback.

Good point about Stat - we hope he is ok. And IF he isn't, our other great scorer in Lin is gone.

Draft express btw - had Papa as the #1 rated International prospect. We traded that and more for Felton? The Brooklyn (where I'm born) Nets are looking better and better as an outlet. That would piss Dolan off if the fan base starts to leave.

Have fun rooting for the Nets.

Thanks Bro. Even with our team being run into the ground for years, it's nice you can overlook all that.
But me and others ain't gone yet, but thanks for the wishes.

Been here for the long run as you. We finally have a team that could get to where we all have dreamed the Knicks would. Now this Lin debacle is gonna make you go root for the Nets? I want Lin to remain in NY but considering all the circumstances I wont be surprised nor will I chamge teams if it happened. When you love a team, you just love it to the end.

If you can survive the Lin heartbreak, then lets all root for the Knicks to give us a lot to be proud of next season.

RonRon wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I would love to read a stat showing how many teams regretted trading the 48th pick in the draft. I get being pissed about the Lin deal but this trade was a slam dunk for the Knicks.

He really was a steal, we can't say that, don't forget where Lin was drafted, not to mention Manu, Stephen Jackson, Monta Ellis, Louis Scola, Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson?, and many more in the 2nd round picks.

You trashed this pick and had a huge list of guys that you said the knicks should draft. G

SupremeCommander wrote:this board is fucking unbelievable sometimes

I agree.

Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin

Felton is an All-Star, Lin is an unproven scrub who slept on his brother's couch and now wants $25 million. F him for being ungrateful to this team.

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I would love to read a stat showing how many teams regretted trading the 48th pick in the draft. I get being pissed about the Lin deal but this trade was a slam dunk for the Knicks.

He really was a steal, we can't say that, don't forget where Lin was drafted, not to mention Manu, Stephen Jackson, Monta Ellis, Louis Scola, Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson?, and many more in the 2nd round picks.

You trashed this pick and had a huge list of guys that you said the knicks should draft. G

I did, I was absolutely wrong. I judged it based on one video that I watched right after the draft, till I started watching more videos on it after the Camby trade.
I knew we were out of assets and watched more videos on him, to see what he would be worth.

I was so happy DJO would be available, I didn't even give him a fair shot, and I saw a bad video off him or/and my anger just blinded me.
It would then I realized it was my anger talking on draft night.
I also did not see adding Camby/Kidd/ and Felton all possibilities.
Didn't see the next moves of White and Copeland and how all could fit in.

I was so angry on draft night because I thought DJO would be a steal.
This summer so far has been another surprise, i thought it was going to be one MLE signing and that would mainly be it, with JR, most likely walking/ with Novak being uncertain...
With one trade for like a Foye/Lee type of player, while not knowing who we would not have resigned.
I didn't see resigning everyone as a realistic opportunity

Vet min players after that....

Looking at the roster right now, I can see us going PRO ANTHONY OR PRO LIN but the body language I think I have been reading off Melo vs Lin are correct.
Even during the playoffs, I found it very odd, how he DID NOT WANT LIN to return, i did not see concern about his health, he was concerned about how hard he had to fight to win the team back.
I knew there was jealousy but I am pretty sure there are things that we don't see, hear, and happened between Melo/Lin, for Lin to have a sudden change of heart like this.

Maybe all these reports about Melo kicking Dantoni were true and he might have done the same with Lin.
Even recently, about Melo saying "I want Lin to play with TEAM USA" it was not genuine, he wanted to stomp on Lin, saying he has no spot on the roster, unlike himself.

Now he just says Lin's contract is ridiculous????
Seriously, I want him to come back but, it is not my call, but his contract is ridiculous?
Everything he says contradicts itself, with the body language I have been reading all season.

His contract is = Lin's 3rd year salary, Felton, and Kidd's combined.

Except, it is for is a multi year deal, it is okay for him to get max money, and have NY trade half the team for him when they could have signed him in the off season?
But here he is, crapping on Lin's one year contract?

If he really wants to stay, he can make that money up, by opting out of his contract, and taking less money in the likes of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, KG, Pierce, Rhondo and etc FOR THE BETTER OF THE TEAM

Let's see will he opt out of his contract, in the final year of his deal, and demand a max extension in the likes of Joe Johnson.
By him opting out and doing that it limits much flexibility to see what we could do in the next off season where there are many UFA's pairings.
But lets see, is Melo a TEAM player or ME player...

Don't forget Lin tried to cover for Melo on many occasions for during Linsanity,

"Melo suggested to Dantoni, that I should get PT"

"having a player like Melo would only open up our abilities"

There are a lot of behind the scenes things that must have changed his perception of what he has learned about territory that Lin has learned about Melo and the NBA....

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We gave up a rookie Euro who would have collected splinters all year? I dont see the problem.

The problem is that there should not have been any reason to do an of this. Dolan's just looking for reasons to overpay players and give away as many draft picks as possible. He did the same thing (throw away picks) with the Camby S & T. He did the same thing the past 12 years actually.

First the kicks are supposed to find an impact player for next year with the 48th pick and are trashed for going euro stash. Then when they move the Pick for guys that will play and have an impact they messed up?

JamesKPolk wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this board is fucking unbelievable sometimes

I agree.

Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin

Felton is an All-Star, Lin is an unproven scrub who slept on his brother's couch and now wants $25 million. F him for being ungrateful to this team.

IrishKnickFan wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this board is fucking unbelievable sometimes

I agree.

Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin

Felton is an All-Star, Lin is an unproven scrub who slept on his brother's couch and now wants $25 million. F him for being ungrateful to this team.

I must have missed it which year was Felton an all-star?

I think (hope) that he's being sarcastic.

Yet he can't go out and get how much money he possibly can? Ridiculous. He deserves the money that he gets.