Knicks · Berger: Knicks still weighing pros and cons of matching Lin offer. (page 2)

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Shumpert is on a real rookie deal which is much more favorable for the team that drafted him. They'll have to make a decision on Shump after two more years aka the same summer they'll have to try to move one or two of the massive expiring deals of Melo, Amar'e, Tyson or... (possibly Lin).

My whole thing is that the Knicks will be above the luxury tax threshold with or without signing Lin. Signing Lin gives them a young asset and much more flexibility that summer.

And if Lin turns into a star, something I think is a very real possibility, he will be worth his contract and then some.

The only downside to matching Lin is that in two years this team will have some big decisions to make. Signing him means this team has a two year window to do some damage. With Kidd and Camby on board as key pieces, a two year window is about all they have anyway.

Letting Lin walk means they STILL have no way to add more pieces and they have a core with much less potential.

To me, signing Lin is a no-brainer. And I won't quit the team because I'm in love with Lin. I will be extremely frustrated that the best young player on this team was given away because the whole contract negotiation was poorly handled - actually it wasn't even handled, the Knicks let some other team do the negotiation. You can't do that and then be pissed about the result. Knicks gambled Lin wouldn't get a great offer and he did. They HAVE to match it or this whole "All In" charade is just that and the team has a dramatically lower ceiling.

BUT, you roll out a line up of:

Lin / Felton
Kidd / JR / (Shump)
Melo / Novak
Amar'e / Kurt
Tyson / Camby

and you've got something potentially special that might just be able to make some noise. But have no illusions - Lin is a MAJOR piece of this puzzle. To let him walk for nothing is insane.

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Um you are going overboard i mean its not like lebron's decision

What does Lebron have to do with this? The question was if matching Lin would affect Shumpert's signing and the answer, like it or not, is probably yes. This article even states how NY will have to move a big contract in order to make room for Lin. Shump is one of our most attractive assets left and in order to move a contract like, say, Amare, you will probably have to include him. Not trying to spin this any way, its just likely matching Lin will have repercussions on the other players, just like the article says.

as soemone just said shump isnt a RFA until 2015 i think

So? He was almost traded for Nash this offseason.

C'mon Dolan!!!! Smarten the F**K up and pull the damn trigger!!!!

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Um you are going overboard i mean its not like lebron's decision

What does Lebron have to do with this? The question was if matching Lin would affect Shumpert's signing and the answer, like it or not, is probably yes. This article even states how NY will have to move a big contract in order to make room for Lin. Shump is one of our most attractive assets left and in order to move a contract like, say, Amare, you will probably have to include him. Not trying to spin this any way, its just likely matching Lin will have repercussions on the other players, just like the article says.

as soemone just said shump isnt a RFA until 2015 i think

So? He was almost traded for Nash this offseason.

i dont think the knicks wanted to trade shumpert which is why we never got nash because originally we were gonna tarde fields and then the raptors offered him a deal

If Lin leaves, we're back to hoping we can find a "diamond in the rough" star PG in the second round of the draft and lamenting not drafting Brandon Jennings. Lin is the diamond in the rough. It's a once in a lifetime waiver wire find. He is our John Starks (different position, but similar story). There's a reason John Starks was a fan favorite in the 90s. People love that kind of crazy story where a guy is overlooked by everyone and finds success. He's our success story. It would be wrong for him to wind up anywhere else.

crzymdups wrote:It's an interesting idea that Felton might be an asset to flip. He's on a great contract now and should be totally easy to trade if he plays well. Maybe even package with Amar'e at some point as an instant pick and roll combo to some team.

I like that line of thinking!

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:It's an interesting idea that Felton might be an asset to flip. He's on a great contract now and should be totally easy to trade if he plays well. Maybe even package with Amar'e at some point as an instant pick and roll combo to some team.

I like that line of thinking!

How many times are we gonna sign Felton and trade him after 3 months? LOL!

mrKnickShot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Lin isn't going anywhere. And yes, good to see some actual reporting.

Man, I hope you're right. I will take the train up to MSG and kiss the sidewalk outside of it. I'll dance a little jig like Bruce Willis at the end of The Last Boyscout.

Stacking PG's is always smart since they are big commodities throughout the season. Felton's deal is extremely tradeable.

I still think there is no way that Lin walks - NO WAY!!

Amen to that brotha!

crzymdups wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Shumpert is on a real rookie deal which is much more favorable for the team that drafted him. They'll have to make a decision on Shump after two more years aka the same summer they'll have to try to move one or two of the massive expiring deals of Melo, Amar'e, Tyson or... (possibly Lin).

My whole thing is that the Knicks will be above the luxury tax threshold with or without signing Lin. Signing Lin gives them a young asset and much more flexibility that summer.

And if Lin turns into a star, something I think is a very real possibility, he will be worth his contract and then some.

The only downside to matching Lin is that in two years this team will have some big decisions to make. Signing him means this team has a two year window to do some damage. With Kidd and Camby on board as key pieces, a two year window is about all they have anyway.

Letting Lin walk means they STILL have no way to add more pieces and they have a core with much less potential.

To me, signing Lin is a no-brainer. And I won't quit the team because I'm in love with Lin. I will be extremely frustrated that the best young player on this team was given away because the whole contract negotiation was poorly handled - actually it wasn't even handled, the Knicks let some other team do the negotiation. You can't do that and then be pissed about the result. Knicks gambled Lin wouldn't get a great offer and he did. They HAVE to match it or this whole "All In" charade is just that and the team has a dramatically lower ceiling.

BUT, you roll out a line up of:

Lin / Felton
Kidd / JR / (Shump)
Melo / Novak
Amar'e / Kurt
Tyson / Camby

and you've got something potentially special that might just be able to make some noise. But have no illusions - Lin is a MAJOR piece of this puzzle. To let him walk for nothing is insane.

Good post but no need to preach the choir, as I also hope/expect the Knicks match. But I think with so much hysteria over losing Lin, people are not understanding how tough the Knicks situation will be in that third year.

First, we have to understant it isn't simply paying the Tax, but understanding exactly how limited will the team be because of being SO over the Tax limit. We haven't read a true report yet on the consequences of that, but just the fact that NY is considering not matching and exploring scenarios where they have to make moves to improve their cap situation tells you this isn't just Dolan being petty.

Second, we have to understand that it isn't as simple as saying "don't worry, if the Knicks have to make a move, they'll do it year three." If we hate some of the trades the Knicls do with no pressure, just imagine a desperate NY team trying to trade Amare, Melo, Chandler or even Lin because of this. If Lin becomes a superstar, you keep him. If not, he is untradeable unless you send him as an expiring contract, but again, how limited we will be of making moves in that third year? Real qiestion.

I trully think this is the sotuation we are: NY expected one offer to Lin and made other moves around it. Once it changed, they jumped the gun on the Felton trade in case of emergency. Now they must be studying the new CBA and projecting their situation in year 3. If they see they will benefit from Lin whilw being able to make moves and avoid Tax limitations, they will match.

I don't think it is a personal thing like we have been made to believe by the crap media like ESPN and the crappy NY media.

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:It's an interesting idea that Felton might be an asset to flip. He's on a great contract now and should be totally easy to trade if he plays well. Maybe even package with Amar'e at some point as an instant pick and roll combo to some team.

I like that line of thinking!

How many times are we gonna sign Felton and trade him after 3 months? LOL!

2-3 times a year if it helps us.

AnubisADL wrote:If Lin stays the same media types will blame the Knicks for giving him the contract if he sucks.

Yea but who cares they are in the business of sensationalism and selling their product. It is the fans who take them seriously who are the clueless ones

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Um you are going overboard i mean its not like lebron's decision

What does Lebron have to do with this? The question was if matching Lin would affect Shumpert's signing and the answer, like it or not, is probably yes. This article even states how NY will have to move a big contract in order to make room for Lin. Shump is one of our most attractive assets left and in order to move a contract like, say, Amare, you will probably have to include him. Not trying to spin this any way, its just likely matching Lin will have repercussions on the other players, just like the article says.

as soemone just said shump isnt a RFA until 2015 i think

So? He was almost traded for Nash this offseason.

i dont think the knicks wanted to trade shumpert which is why we never got nash because originally we were gonna tarde fields and then the raptors offered him a deal

One thing is wanting and another is having to. I'm now hoping for Shump to be traded. I love the kid. But he will be one of our best assets in a time when we will have to make a move. Usually those things have a way of mixing themselves together.

When Kahn stacks PGs he's an idiot. When its to keep Lin it makes perfect sense. Lol.

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:It's an interesting idea that Felton might be an asset to flip. He's on a great contract now and should be totally easy to trade if he plays well. Maybe even package with Amar'e at some point as an instant pick and roll combo to some team.

I like that line of thinking!

How many times are we gonna sign Felton and trade him after 3 months? LOL!

lol poor guy

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Um you are going overboard i mean its not like lebron's decision

What does Lebron have to do with this? The question was if matching Lin would affect Shumpert's signing and the answer, like it or not, is probably yes. This article even states how NY will have to move a big contract in order to make room for Lin. Shump is one of our most attractive assets left and in order to move a contract like, say, Amare, you will probably have to include him. Not trying to spin this any way, its just likely matching Lin will have repercussions on the other players, just like the article says.

as soemone just said shump isnt a RFA until 2015 i think

So? He was almost traded for Nash this offseason.

i dont think the knicks wanted to trade shumpert which is why we never got nash because originally we were gonna tarde fields and then the raptors offered him a deal

One thing is wanting and another is having to. I'm now hoping for Shump to be traded. I love the kid. But he will be one of our best assets in a time when we will have to make a move. Usually those things have a way of mixing themselves together.

That would be dumb, The kid is already a shutdown defender and he was only a rookie. if his offensive gam improves then the celing is really high for him

AnubisADL wrote:When Kahn stacks PGs he's an idiot. When its to keep Lin it makes perfect sense. Lol.

Drafting flyn and rubio is a whole other story. Knicks have 3 very capable pgs now

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Um you are going overboard i mean its not like lebron's decision

What does Lebron have to do with this? The question was if matching Lin would affect Shumpert's signing and the answer, like it or not, is probably yes. This article even states how NY will have to move a big contract in order to make room for Lin. Shump is one of our most attractive assets left and in order to move a contract like, say, Amare, you will probably have to include him. Not trying to spin this any way, its just likely matching Lin will have repercussions on the other players, just like the article says.

as soemone just said shump isnt a RFA until 2015 i think

So? He was almost traded for Nash this offseason.

i dont think the knicks wanted to trade shumpert which is why we never got nash because originally we were gonna tarde fields and then the raptors offered him a deal

One thing is wanting and another is having to. I'm now hoping for Shump to be traded. I love the kid. But he will be one of our best assets in a time when we will have to make a move. Usually those things have a way of mixing themselves together.

That would be dumb, The kid is already a shutdown defender and he was only a rookie. if his offensive gam improves then the celing is really high for him

And here we go to the beginning of the post: question was if matching Lin could affect Shumps contract. While not exactly his contract, the Knicks may be forced to.include him in a trade along with a big contract in order to make room for Lins poison pill. Not writing it in stone and seriously hope we never have to, but the point of this article, I think, was to show that this situation isn't the black or white, slam dunk most believe, but a serious one that needs to be well planned before excecuting because much is at risk.

Knicksfan wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Shumpert is on a real rookie deal which is much more favorable for the team that drafted him. They'll have to make a decision on Shump after two more years aka the same summer they'll have to try to move one or two of the massive expiring deals of Melo, Amar'e, Tyson or... (possibly Lin).

My whole thing is that the Knicks will be above the luxury tax threshold with or without signing Lin. Signing Lin gives them a young asset and much more flexibility that summer.

And if Lin turns into a star, something I think is a very real possibility, he will be worth his contract and then some.

The only downside to matching Lin is that in two years this team will have some big decisions to make. Signing him means this team has a two year window to do some damage. With Kidd and Camby on board as key pieces, a two year window is about all they have anyway.

Letting Lin walk means they STILL have no way to add more pieces and they have a core with much less potential.

To me, signing Lin is a no-brainer. And I won't quit the team because I'm in love with Lin. I will be extremely frustrated that the best young player on this team was given away because the whole contract negotiation was poorly handled - actually it wasn't even handled, the Knicks let some other team do the negotiation. You can't do that and then be pissed about the result. Knicks gambled Lin wouldn't get a great offer and he did. They HAVE to match it or this whole "All In" charade is just that and the team has a dramatically lower ceiling.

BUT, you roll out a line up of:

Lin / Felton
Kidd / JR / (Shump)
Melo / Novak
Amar'e / Kurt
Tyson / Camby

and you've got something potentially special that might just be able to make some noise. But have no illusions - Lin is a MAJOR piece of this puzzle. To let him walk for nothing is insane.

Good post but no need to preach the choir, as I also hope/expect the Knicks match. But I think with so much hysteria over losing Lin, people are not understanding how tough the Knicks situation will be in that third year.

First, we have to understant it isn't simply paying the Tax, but understanding exactly how limited will the team be because of being SO over the Tax limit. We haven't read a true report yet on the consequences of that, but just the fact that NY is considering not matching and exploring scenarios where they have to make moves to improve their cap situation tells you this isn't just Dolan being petty.

Second, we have to understand that it isn't as simple as saying "don't worry, if the Knicks have to make a move, they'll do it year three." If we hate some of the trades the Knicls do with no pressure, just imagine a desperate NY team trying to trade Amare, Melo, Chandler or even Lin because of this. If Lin becomes a superstar, you keep him. If not, he is untradeable unless you send him as an expiring contract, but again, how limited we will be of making moves in that third year? Real qiestion.

I trully think this is the sotuation we are: NY expected one offer to Lin and made other moves around it. Once it changed, they jumped the gun on the Felton trade in case of emergency. Now they must be studying the new CBA and projecting their situation in year 3. If they see they will benefit from Lin whilw being able to make moves and avoid Tax limitations, they will match.

I don't think it is a personal thing like we have been made to believe by the crap media like ESPN and the crappy NY media.

it seems odd the knicks would not be prepared for a team making a tough offer. if it isnt official, they should know better than to believe it or worse, act on that.

sidsanders wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Gymkata wrote:Would matching Lin affect Shumpert's signing down the road? Could we get poison-pilled again?

Yes. We may even have to trade him in order to trade a big contract to make room for Lin's poison pill. But who cares? The future of New York's humanity rests on the Knicks matching Lin.

Shumpert is on a real rookie deal which is much more favorable for the team that drafted him. They'll have to make a decision on Shump after two more years aka the same summer they'll have to try to move one or two of the massive expiring deals of Melo, Amar'e, Tyson or... (possibly Lin).

My whole thing is that the Knicks will be above the luxury tax threshold with or without signing Lin. Signing Lin gives them a young asset and much more flexibility that summer.

And if Lin turns into a star, something I think is a very real possibility, he will be worth his contract and then some.

The only downside to matching Lin is that in two years this team will have some big decisions to make. Signing him means this team has a two year window to do some damage. With Kidd and Camby on board as key pieces, a two year window is about all they have anyway.

Letting Lin walk means they STILL have no way to add more pieces and they have a core with much less potential.

To me, signing Lin is a no-brainer. And I won't quit the team because I'm in love with Lin. I will be extremely frustrated that the best young player on this team was given away because the whole contract negotiation was poorly handled - actually it wasn't even handled, the Knicks let some other team do the negotiation. You can't do that and then be pissed about the result. Knicks gambled Lin wouldn't get a great offer and he did. They HAVE to match it or this whole "All In" charade is just that and the team has a dramatically lower ceiling.

BUT, you roll out a line up of:

Lin / Felton
Kidd / JR / (Shump)
Melo / Novak
Amar'e / Kurt
Tyson / Camby

and you've got something potentially special that might just be able to make some noise. But have no illusions - Lin is a MAJOR piece of this puzzle. To let him walk for nothing is insane.

Good post but no need to preach the choir, as I also hope/expect the Knicks match. But I think with so much hysteria over losing Lin, people are not understanding how tough the Knicks situation will be in that third year.

First, we have to understant it isn't simply paying the Tax, but understanding exactly how limited will the team be because of being SO over the Tax limit. We haven't read a true report yet on the consequences of that, but just the fact that NY is considering not matching and exploring scenarios where they have to make moves to improve their cap situation tells you this isn't just Dolan being petty.

Second, we have to understand that it isn't as simple as saying "don't worry, if the Knicks have to make a move, they'll do it year three." If we hate some of the trades the Knicls do with no pressure, just imagine a desperate NY team trying to trade Amare, Melo, Chandler or even Lin because of this. If Lin becomes a superstar, you keep him. If not, he is untradeable unless you send him as an expiring contract, but again, how limited we will be of making moves in that third year? Real qiestion.

I trully think this is the sotuation we are: NY expected one offer to Lin and made other moves around it. Once it changed, they jumped the gun on the Felton trade in case of emergency. Now they must be studying the new CBA and projecting their situation in year 3. If they see they will benefit from Lin whilw being able to make moves and avoid Tax limitations, they will match.

I don't think it is a personal thing like we have been made to believe by the crap media like ESPN and the crappy NY media.

it seems odd the knicks would not be prepared for a team making a tough offer. if it isnt official, they should know better than to believe it or worse, act on that.

Lin has verbally agreed to one offer. Knicks then made moves with that in mind. Then the offer changed.

crzymdups wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Lin isn't going anywhere. And yes, good to see some actual reporting.

Man, I hope you're right. I will take the train up to MSG and kiss the sidewalk outside of it. I'll dance a little jig like Bruce Willis at the end of The Last Boyscout.

I'll destro 750 ml of single malt all by myself between midnight and 3 AM - Then go to work at 8.

great article crzy - leave it to berger to write an informative, unbiased and articulate article.

i think we can all agree - no matter where you stand on lin, is there are definitely pros and cons to the knicks matching or letting him walk.