Knicks · Jeremy: Linsanity Consumed Me (page 2)

mrKnickShot wrote:Houston will un-consume him pretty fast

ROFL~

Caseloads wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Houston will un-consume him pretty fast

ROFL~

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Turn overs turn overs turn overs

He gets about two steals for every three turnovers. If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly.

Thats a big IF. If Melo would average 1 more assist, his numbers would look like you know who ...

It's not really a big if. My "if" is not actually imposing any net improvement to his game; it's just one improvement (one less turnover) and one comparable deterioration (one less steal). Yours is imposing a net improvement to Melo's game. I may have made my view clearer when I edited my previous message, which appears to have been after your quoted it.

Did you mean "one fewer turnover" and "one fewer steal"? You lost me at the semicolon

Isn't that what I said, only I used the word "less" rather than "fewer"? I think technically fewer is grammatically correct.

Just messin with the grammar stuff

Still have no idea what you were talking about (seriously). Can you be a bit "less" verbose?

how to you measure deterioration vs improvement with a similar deviation?

My point was basically that he's very good at getting steals and I think that compensates for his high turnovers. Does that make sense? Sometimes I make things more complicated than they need to be.

Well sort of. Its easier to understand what you are saying but now, I don't get the point.

"If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly"

I am not sure what the value of a steal is vs. the negative value of a turnover.

Nevermind - it doesn't matter. I am getting dizzy :-)

They're opposite sides of the same coin. A steal gains you a possession and a turnover costs you one. In fact, a steal is always a forced turnover. A steal is as good as a turnover is bad.

So they are equal right? -1 + -1 would not change much? Just pretty vs ugly?

Exactly

insightful, thanks

Why do I feel dumber now?

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Doesn't change the fact that he's still getting the $$$$. He's going to need to bring his A game every night dealing with the likes of Nash, Parker, Westbrook, CP3, Curry and Evans. None of those guys care if he asked for the money or not.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Turn overs turn overs turn overs

He gets about two steals for every three turnovers. If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly.

Thats a big IF. If Melo would average 1 more assist, his numbers would look like you know who ...

It's not really a big if. My "if" is not actually imposing any net improvement to his game; it's just one improvement (one less turnover) and one comparable deterioration (one less steal). Yours is imposing a net improvement to Melo's game. I may have made my view clearer when I edited my previous message, which appears to have been after your quoted it.

Did you mean "one fewer turnover" and "one fewer steal"? You lost me at the semicolon

Isn't that what I said, only I used the word "less" rather than "fewer"? I think technically fewer is grammatically correct.

Just messin with the grammar stuff

Still have no idea what you were talking about (seriously). Can you be a bit "less" verbose?

how to you measure deterioration vs improvement with a similar deviation?

My point was basically that he's very good at getting steals and I think that compensates for his high turnovers. Does that make sense? Sometimes I make things more complicated than they need to be.

Wouldn't it depend on how many of those steals lead to baskets and how many of his turnovers turn into points on the other end?

It would be best if he could continue to steal the ball well and not turn the ball over as much.

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Turn overs turn overs turn overs

He gets about two steals for every three turnovers. If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly.

Thats a big IF. If Melo would average 1 more assist, his numbers would look like you know who ...

It's not really a big if. My "if" is not actually imposing any net improvement to his game; it's just one improvement (one less turnover) and one comparable deterioration (one less steal). Yours is imposing a net improvement to Melo's game. I may have made my view clearer when I edited my previous message, which appears to have been after your quoted it.

Did you mean "one fewer turnover" and "one fewer steal"? You lost me at the semicolon

Isn't that what I said, only I used the word "less" rather than "fewer"? I think technically fewer is grammatically correct.

Just messin with the grammar stuff

Still have no idea what you were talking about (seriously). Can you be a bit "less" verbose?

how to you measure deterioration vs improvement with a similar deviation?

My point was basically that he's very good at getting steals and I think that compensates for his high turnovers. Does that make sense? Sometimes I make things more complicated than they need to be.

Wouldn't it depend on how many of those steals lead to baskets and how many of his turnovers turn into points on the other end?

It would be best if he could continue to steal the ball well and not turn the ball over as much.

There's no reason to assume a forced turnover (meaning a steal) consistently leads to more/fewer baskets than a committed turnover does. That's a more complex, counter-intuitive explanation and it would require lots of evidence to support it.

It would be best if he could continue to steal the ball well and not turn the ball over as much.

That is definitely true

Teams in west still pretty decent
Lin will get Sin-sanity soon when he's taught lessons out in the wild wild western conference

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

CashMoney wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Doesn't change the fact that he's still getting the $$$$. He's going to need to bring his A game every night dealing with the likes of Nash, Parker, Westbrook, CP3, Curry and Evans. None of those guys care if he asked for the money or not.

when your not playing well the media loves to bring a players contract into the discussion. Same goes for fans so, those who say he better live up to it aren't wrong.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Turn overs turn overs turn overs

He gets about two steals for every three turnovers (2.6 and 4.2 per 36 min for his career). If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly. In other words, I think his high steal totals mostly make his turnovers a non-issue. (That doesn't mean he shouldn't work on protecting the ball better - there's obviously always room for improvement.)

Trending shows that your projection may be unlikely. In mostly starting minutes for the Knicks, his Per 36 Steals were 2.1 and his turnovers were 4.8. This represented a drop in steals and a rise in turnovers versus his minutes played previously with Golden State against reserves.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Turn overs turn overs turn overs

He gets about two steals for every three turnovers. If he were to get one less steal and one less turnover, I doubt his net impact would be any different but his turnover numbers would be less ugly.

Thats a big IF. If Melo would average 1 more assist, his numbers would look like you know who ...

It's not really a big if. My "if" is not actually imposing any net improvement to his game; it's just one improvement (one less turnover) and one comparable deterioration (one less steal). Yours is imposing a net improvement to Melo's game. I may have made my view clearer when I edited my previous message, which appears to have been after your quoted it.

Did you mean "one fewer turnover" and "one fewer steal"? You lost me at the semicolon

Isn't that what I said, only I used the word "less" rather than "fewer"? I think technically fewer is grammatically correct.

Just messin with the grammar stuff

Still have no idea what you were talking about (seriously). Can you be a bit "less" verbose?

how to you measure deterioration vs improvement with a similar deviation?

My point was basically that he's very good at getting steals and I think that compensates for his high turnovers. Does that make sense? Sometimes I make things more complicated than they need to be.

Finally, something we agree on.

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

I meant to post this a week ago.....thought this quote was very interesting " Steiner said “it’s not any secret” that Shirley Lin “is running the show,” when it comes to the business interests of her son. Steiner added that he didn’t even meet Jeremy Lin until after the All-Star Game"

Jeremy Lin marketer ponders the next chapter of Linsanity

There have been worse business days for Brandon Steiner in the last 25 years of running the sports marketing and collectibles firm that bears his last name.
While Steiner says the departure of Jeremy Lin to the Houston Rockets was an unanticipated curveball — Steiner Sports is one of three companies Lin endorses, along with Volvo and Nike — it doesn’t quite compare with, say, July 30, 1997. That is the date when hockey icon Mark Messier, also a Steiner client, left the Rangers and signed with the Canucks as a free agent, only three years after Messier helped the Blueshirts win the Stanley Cup.

“I cried then,” Steiner told the Daily News on Wednesday, a day after the Knicks declined to match the Rockets’ offer sheet for the popular point guard. “I cried as a fan, a partner, a friend. Messier was a big part of what I did every day, and it was like my brother going across the country. But I wasn’t going to a funeral (Wednesday) morning after the news.”
That is not to say that Steiner didn’t ponder what might have been had the 23-year-old Lin returned to Madison Square Garden. Houston’s Toyota Center is by no means on the same level as The World’s Most Famous Arena as far as marketing opportunities go.

“We’re trying to understand the Houston market, determine if Lin will have the same level of fame and intensity. We hope so,” Steiner said. “But New York is a special place. You can’t compare to New York.”
When Linsanity erupted in February — particularly the night of Feb. 10 at the Garden when the Harvard-educated point guard scored 38 points against Kobe Bryant and the Lakers — Steiner saw a golden business opportunity.

“That night against the Lakers, I was like, ‘Oh my God, I’ve got to get in there. That’s when I started getting involved myself,” Steiner said. “It was, ‘I’ll take this thing over from here.’ The kid was unbelievable. I chased him. It was not an easy deal to get done. I dealt with (agent) Roger (Montgomery), Lin’s family. It got pretty complex.
“It was the same thing with Derek Jeter back in ’96. It’s not stalking. There’s probably another word.”
Steiner said he solidified the business partnership with Lin after attending the NBA All-Star Game in Orlando on Feb. 26, and spending quality face-time with Lin’s “inner circle,” including Lin’s father, Gie-Ming, and mother, Shirley. Steiner said “it’s not any secret” that Shirley Lin “is running the show,” when it comes to the business interests of her son. Steiner added that he didn’t even meet Jeremy Lin until after the All-Star Game, when Lin signed an 18-month contract with Steiner that started in April. The deal with Lin includes autograph singings, corporate appearances, signed memorabilia and game-used jerseys.

“I try to be as objective as I can,” Steiner said, referring to building business partnerships. “Sometimes that can screw you, not meeting with a potential client. His parents were pretty clear about the fact they were taking this seriously. They were pretty firm. Obviously, they’re protective of their son. They wanted to create their own game plan for him, and are trying to do things the right way.”
Lin’s first Steiner-related function was a March meet-and-greet with fans that Steiner describes as a huge success. “People were real excited,” Steiner said. “Then Lin got hurt, and things got a little weird.”
After knee surgery, Lin missed the rest of the season, including the playoffs.
Steiner expected the partnership to keep blossoming upon Lin’s return, but then came Tuesday’s news.
“We have a little bit of time, and we’re working with people we know in Houston,” Steiner said. “We’re talking with Amazon, SkyMall, Neiman Marcus. We’re setting up projects, distribution, trying to facilitate the transition. We hope that Lin maintains a national and international name.
“The Houston market has their own fan base, and Lin still has a large Asian-American following. People also love the longshot. I know we had a good thing going in New York. We’ll see how it turns out in Houston. I know Lin is very religious. I can move to religious position here. I can pray that his status transfers over to Houston.” http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

What game did Lin get injured in? Most would say it was in the Dallas game, when Kidd took him down hard. That was Lin's 12th to last game he played in. His field goal % went down roughly from 47% to 40%. He played through it but clearly many of us noticed he was off. You want to use that as evidence that his game was falling off but leave out the fact he needed surgery cause he wasn't able to cut any more?

Maybe it's not that no one wants to talk anymore, but rather that everyone knows not to judge him right before his surgery.

Not resigning Lin killed the greatest thing NY Knicks fans had experienced in a long time. That is not debatable. Lin did more with less and made those around him better.

What game did Lin get injured in? Most would say it was in the Dallas game, when Kidd took him down hard. That was Lin's 12th to last game he played in. His field goal % went down roughly from 47% to 40%. He played through it but clearly many of us noticed he was off. You want to use that as evidence that his game was falling off but leave out the fact he needed surgery cause he wasn't able to cut any more?

That's a very good point that his critics are overlooking.

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

it's a stupid way to think(not saying your stupid) but when ppl say he's going to remain to be turnover prone and his numbers will go down, it's pretty much indicating he's at his cieling, which is pretty narrow minded..

Why won't ppl start saying he will progress base in what we saw, instead of saying he's not worth the $ base on 25/30 games..

Bonn1997 wrote:

What game did Lin get injured in? Most would say it was in the Dallas game, when Kidd took him down hard. That was Lin's 12th to last game he played in. His field goal % went down roughly from 47% to 40%. He played through it but clearly many of us noticed he was off. You want to use that as evidence that his game was falling off but leave out the fact he needed surgery cause he wasn't able to cut any more?

That's a very good point that his critics are overlooking.

To be fair critics dont' care that Amare play'd injured and was in recovery mode all year...these same critics don't care that Melo play'd injured most the season as well...Critics dont' care that Baron Davis play'd with one leg last year when grading his performance. Part of the beast. Lin playing by different rules now?

FoeDiddy wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

What game did Lin get injured in? Most would say it was in the Dallas game, when Kidd took him down hard. That was Lin's 12th to last game he played in. His field goal % went down roughly from 47% to 40%. He played through it but clearly many of us noticed he was off. You want to use that as evidence that his game was falling off but leave out the fact he needed surgery cause he wasn't able to cut any more?

That's a very good point that his critics are overlooking.

To be fair critics dont' care that Amare play'd injured and was in recovery mode all year...these same critics don't care that Melo play'd injured most the season as well...Critics dont' care that Baron Davis play'd with one leg last year when grading his performance. Part of the beast. Lin playing by different rules now?

I care but different interpretations are reasonable for each of the situations.
Lin: He's young and this is not a huge injury. Most likely he'll be fine.
Baron: He's old. Expecting him to be our key PG was dumb. He deserves lots of credit for trying though.
Amare: Has tons of wear and tear and it's understandable why he couldn't get an insured contract. Not good.

I believe that Lin's injury was a small meniscal tear to cartilidge in his left knee. I've had this surgery on both knees. The meniscus acts as a buffer in various ways at the Knee joint. Without the meniscus, there would be bone to bone contact and major pain/arthritis. In this operation it is not uncommon for the torn part of the cartilidge to be cut or shaven off, leaving the remaining cartilidge intact (but less overall cartilidge). If the tear is not serious, patients are often up and around within a couple days after the arthoscopic procedure. The rehab can take several months based on building muscle around the knee in order to establish better stability. Believe it or not, the activity I had to wait the longest to resume was Golf....based on the potential torque motion at the knee.

IMO (unprofessional of course).....the doctors probably advised Lin to perform a full rehab prior to resuming basketball activities. Lin probably could have played (especially with a brace).....but given basketball cutting/jumping/stopping activities, and his pending free agency....there was a higher chance of re-injury that he probably did not want to face.

Once the meniscus is operated on, no matter how old you are, it is effectively weaker with a greater chance of recurring injury.

foosballnick wrote:I believe that Lin's injury was a small meniscal tear to cartilidge in his left knee. I've had this surgery on both knees. The meniscus acts as a buffer in various ways at the Knee joint. Without the meniscus, there would be bone to bone contact and major pain/arthritis. In this operation it is not uncommon for the torn part of the cartilidge to be cut or shaven off, leaving the remaining cartilidge intact (but less overall cartilidge). If the tear is not serious, patients are often up and around within a couple days after the arthoscopic procedure. The rehab can take several months based on building muscle around the knee in order to establish better stability. Believe it or not, the activity I had to wait the longest to resume was Golf....based on the potential torque motion at the knee.

IMO (unprofessional of course).....the doctors probably advised Lin to perform a full rehab prior to resuming basketball activities. Lin probably could have played (especially with a brace).....but given basketball cutting/jumping/stopping activities, and his pending free agency....there was a higher chance of re-injury that he probably did not want to face.

Once the meniscus is operated on, no matter how old you are, it is effectively weaker with a greater chance of recurring injury.

The injury is what weakens the meniscus. I don't think the surgery actually weakens it. He'd probably be much worse off if he never had the surgery. I think the rest of what you wrote is pretty reasonable though.