Knicks · Game thread: Knicks Vs Nets 11/26.....Opening nite for Orange & Blue Vs the Black & White! (page 38)

gunsnewing wrote:We need Kyrie Irving

Too young for this team, remember Woodson philosophy “the older the better”. By the way, I heard Michael Finley is attempting a comeback.

was interesting when felton was telling Tyson and Melo they were shutting his lobs down and they would be coming quicker.

Knicks with Melo as "MVP" is tough when the flow of offense dies and we have to go one on one. These points get harder as the game goes and gets tighter.

Melo gets inflated boards on putbacks. Not saying its a bad thing, it just is.

Tyson played a real good game on offense doing his thing. BroPez had 11 rebounds and was very hard to defend. Dude is very large. If he can finish stronger around the basket he'll be even harder to defend.

So what happened? JR never got his grove from the outside and he took it to the rim. Nets took out the passing lane to Novak. KNicks did a good job against JJ. Tyson did a very good job as did RashWeed.

Knicks missed Kidd out there and was likely the difference. Reggie Evens was the difference for the Nets. It was playoff type ball and very tight score! Either team could have won.

Maybe some of the Knick Homers who laughed at Nets trading their pick and locking up Gerald Wallace for 4 years now understand the trade for them. It also gave them the Trade Exemption to sign Reggie Evens.

Nets from what I heard on the broadcast keeps Marshon Brooks on the bench because his defense is awful. He is not nearly as good as JR Smith but that role off the bench is an important one and Brooks will have to step it up if he is to make an impact.

That was "ACT 1" of the new rivalry since the "rebranding". The teams used a short bench and it played out like a post season event. The energy in the building was real good with Knick fans trying their best.

Our team has a lot of growing to do with Amare and Shump returning and Camby getting into game shape and in the rotation. Im afraid injuries will be a regular occurrence with our senior players but our depth should help us there.

We have lost 3 of the last 4. Time to turn it around.

Im not disappointed in the team, they lost a close game. The Rockets game bugged me out because we lost big. Close games are ok in my book. They sting more but its part of the learning curve. They have to learn to close out games.

Reggie Evans - offensive rebounds - "difference maker"

Tyson Chandler - offensive rebounds - "cleaning up the garbage"

Hey, it's nice to know other teams have homers.

JR circling back out to pass on an almost uncontested fast break layup after a turnover to go out and miss a three. I hope Woody has him running until his feet bleed for that one.

Melo had his moment in regulation and missed the 20 footer. Some nights, that one will fall. We have witnessed that. Like MJ says in the commercial, not being afraid to fail is succeeding. Work on the pressurized foul shooting, son.

The switching every 5 seconds at the end of regulation between Brewer for D and Novak for 3 is stupid. Novak wasn't doing sheet all game. Did Woody suddenly realize that those threes Brewer's been hitting this young season suddenly didn't count for this game?

Felton can make me wanna throw up just listening to his shot selection at times.

Can someone please tell JR that after the 3rd block, Bropez knows all about how his step back j works?

JR was playing good D (when he wasn't forced to double down on JJ and then watch Stack hit open 3's) and he and Melo were the only Knicks I heard other than Tyson getting O boards.

Shame we probably won't get a chance to be at full strength to play the N*yets until the playoffs.

Nice game.

Shitty ending.

Anthony and Chandler combined for 23-38 shooting. The rest of the team was 10-47.

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:When we needed a last shot in a close game Melo choked...

That's why I prefer winning games with comfortable leads, don't want to see Zero Ball A.K.A. Hero Ball

Choked?! Get out of here!! Dude had 35 and 13 in 50 mins. He cant make every shot. To be honest, it should have never come down to the last shot. The 2 playes before that shot were horrible play calls by Woodson. Those triple screen plays is either going to result in a runner from Felton or an alley oop to Tyson. Nets sagged and let Felton shoot.

You're confirming my stance on this. Melo filled up the stat sheet...I don't care I've been told for a while now Melo clutch gene separates him from so many players. I don't care about clutch gene I want to win games where we aren't dependent on Hero Ball or last second shot. Because at the end of the day as Melo likes to say a player is probably only going to make 30% of those opportunities which means you watch them fail more than they succeed in such situations.

Yes, its team ball. Other than Tyson, his teammates came up small on the offensive end. Woodson didnt help either with the two plays he called that proceeded the Melo miss. My point is, it should have never come down to that shot.

uptown, this team wasn't built to have multiple playmakers. which is why melo wanted lin out of town, and honestly, I am not sure woodson was so hot on lin as well, said he needed a PG who shot less.. well felton is taking a lot of shots.. but we lack guys who can create for others off the dribble.. this team is built that way, for better or worse.... what we can hope is that kid doesn't miss many games as he tends to make sense of the madness on the court most of the time...

The team was built for the PG to feed the bigs Amare/Chandler/Camby and get them going offensively. Lin would have just come off the bench and would be playing the Jr Smith role on this team.

really? and how is that possible when we don't play pick and roll.. and if lin was here he would be starting and running pick and roll if woodson had a brain...

First and foremost the PG's job for Woody is to take care of the ball. Woody runs pick and roll just doesn't make it his base offense like MDA does. Majority of Felton's assist this season have gone to Chandler. When Amare comes back I am sure we are going to see a lot more PNR.

Felton is the 2nd leading scorer and shot taker on this team right now. I thought that wasn't allowed?

Lin playing a 6th man role and leading a 2nd unit would be the perfect role for him on this team.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

fishmike wrote:fun game to watch. Knicks have a lot of holes and they looked slow and old last night. Melo played a great game but burned out and fizzled late.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

Sometimes I get the feeling like Woodson is just practicing shit on offense. He didn't allow anyone else to really touch the ball other then Melo, Felton and Chandler.

Vs Indy its like he practiced having Melo attack the rim continuously.

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:fun game to watch. Knicks have a lot of holes and they looked slow and old last night. Melo played a great game but burned out and fizzled late.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

Sometimes I get the feeling like Woodson is just practicing shit on offense. He didn't allow anyone else to really touch the ball other then Melo, Felton and Chandler.

Vs Indy its like he practiced having Melo attack the rim continuously.

Its not a popular thing to do, but sometimes you have to give the other team credit. They played a really good game on the dfensive side of the ball. The Nets adjusted and took away the lob on the PNR by packig the paint which lured Felton into shooting a bit too much. They closed hard on Novak and crowded him on the perimter. Shame on Woody for calling the same play 3 times in a row (that triple pick at the top of the key) which ended with Felton forcing up those runners.

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:fun game to watch. Knicks have a lot of holes and they looked slow and old last night. Melo played a great game but burned out and fizzled late.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

Sometimes I get the feeling like Woodson is just practicing shit on offense. He didn't allow anyone else to really touch the ball other then Melo, Felton and Chandler.

Vs Indy its like he practiced having Melo attack the rim continuously.

Its not a popular thing to do, but sometimes you have to give the other team credit. They played a really good game on the dfensive side of the ball. The Nets adjusted and took away the lob on the PNR by packig the paint which lured Felton into shooting a bit too much. They closed hard on Novak and crowded him on the perimter. Shame on Woody for calling the same play 3 times in a row (that triple pick at the top of the key) which ended with Felton forcing up those runners.

I agree. Brooklyn played a heck of a game. Even Iso Joe passed the ball to the open Stackhouse. BroPez is going to be a problem. As Nalos said, the man is huge. He takes up so much space and is very skilled offensive player. He really does remind me a lot of Brad Daugherty.

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:fun game to watch. Knicks have a lot of holes and they looked slow and old last night. Melo played a great game but burned out and fizzled late.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

Sometimes I get the feeling like Woodson is just practicing shit on offense. He didn't allow anyone else to really touch the ball other then Melo, Felton and Chandler.

Vs Indy its like he practiced having Melo attack the rim continuously.

Its not a popular thing to do, but sometimes you have to give the other team credit. They played a really good game on the dfensive side of the ball. The Nets adjusted and took away the lob on the PNR by packig the paint which lured Felton into shooting a bit too much. They closed hard on Novak and crowded him on the perimter. Shame on Woody for calling the same play 3 times in a row (that triple pick at the top of the key) which ended with Felton forcing up those runners.

I agree. Brooklyn played a heck of a game. Even Iso Joe passed the ball to the open Stackhouse. BroPez is going to be a problem. As Nalos said, the man is huge. He takes up so much space and is very skilled offensive player. He really does remind me a lot of Brad Daugherty.

I got a bit of flack from the crowd back a few months ago that BroPez is a monster and played every bit of his first two seaons before last year. He had 4 blocks and 11 rebs last nite. Very solid game with his 22 pts. I have watched a few games this year and very suprised his agilty in the transition is as good. He gets his rebout rate closer to 8 than 6 he is an allstar.

Tyson looks skinny next to him.

At the same time Tyson droppped 28 last nite and had a hell of a game sweeping the offensive glass! He kept us in the game last nite. THey had BroPez and Evans on him.

Again, it was a good game to watch. Melo looked brilliant in the first half. I have no problem with Melo if one lowers the MVP hype and just enjoys him for what he is.

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

you can deny his skillset if he doesn't make others better and in effect accumulates stats in a vacuum.

you can't build around such players which is exactly what dolan is forcing grunwald to do.

this is looking more and more like the iverson 76er scenario but at least iverson averaged 6 assists.

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

those guys were much more efficient..not sure how much of Bernard you got to see, but it just wasn't that he scored points, it is how he scored the points and the pressure he put on the team.. he wasn't jacking threes or bad shots.. he got the same type of shots every time, and they went in at a high rate.. that efficiency allowed for others to get shots and it clearly puts more pressure on the defense... look at some of his game logs.. the guy would get 30= points shooting like14-18 from the field.... just not the same player... Worth was very efficient as well, but was more of a finisher than a creator of his own shots... he may be more comparable to wilkins although I would take wilkins over carmelo any day of the week...

dk7th wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

you can deny his skillset if he doesn't make others better and in effect accumulates stats in a vacuum.

you can't build around such players which is exactly what dolan is forcing grunwald to do.

this is looking more and more like the iverson 76er scenario but at least iverson averaged 6 assists.

Iverson was a 5'11 combo guard handling the ball 90% of the time. He should average 6 assists.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

you can deny his skillset if he doesn't make others better and in effect accumulates stats in a vacuum.

you can't build around such players which is exactly what dolan is forcing grunwald to do.

this is looking more and more like the iverson 76er scenario but at least iverson averaged 6 assists.

Iverson was a 5'11 combo guard handling the ball 90% of the time. He should average 6 assists.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I really think that Melo is in the Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy level. Which is great. He is not in the MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Kobe level. I think LeDouche will be there soon. Melo will be fine. I still think we gave up too much for him, but you can't deny his skillset.

you can deny his skillset if he doesn't make others better and in effect accumulates stats in a vacuum.

you can't build around such players which is exactly what dolan is forcing grunwald to do.

this is looking more and more like the iverson 76er scenario but at least iverson averaged 6 assists.

Iverson was a 5'11 combo guard handling the ball 90% of the time. He should average 6 assists.

iverson in his prime had a usg% of 35
carmelo's usg% is around 33% for his prime

no appreciable difference and for that amount of ball control any player should have upwards of 5 assists... wouldn't you think?

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:fun game to watch. Knicks have a lot of holes and they looked slow and old last night. Melo played a great game but burned out and fizzled late.

This is the problem being built this way... our 38 year old PG has back spasms and aside from Net's total inability to keep Chandler off the offensive glass and Melo's great scoring night the rec guys at my YMCA play better offense.

Sometimes I get the feeling like Woodson is just practicing shit on offense. He didn't allow anyone else to really touch the ball other then Melo, Felton and Chandler.

Vs Indy its like he practiced having Melo attack the rim continuously.

It's called

PECKING ORDER &

It's called

COACHING BY FEEL

You know what D'AnToni used to do.

While coaches may tout they have a base or flat principle from which they coach from some of them simply aren't capable of adaptation in game or from game to game or from different style of player to different style of player or mixing youth with vets correctly.

I don't think Woodson is anymore innovative than D'AnToni. Matter of fact there are few things I liked with D'AnToni in comparison to Woody. Woody is a COMPANY/PLAYER COACH with near zero accountability being enforced. He shows near zero trust in certain players, extremely long leashes for some and short with others. He's a 2 faced hypocrite and I don't like him.