The Spree for Van Horn was a trade I was wrong about it. In retrospect, it was good trade for the Knicks.
I'm from Paterson, so I liked trading Van Horn for Tim Thomas I think... or at least had high hopes. It was a very fugazy time.
Great thread, Smack. And humiliating. I liked pretty much every dumbass trade we've made in the last 10 years. Thought Eddy was a risk, but one worth taking for the chance at a dominant center. Marbury was the unstoppable scorer we never had. McDyess was gonna get healthy and be a dominant 4 for us. painful to remember all this.
I was right about hating giving up Patrick for Glen Rice, Luc Longley and other assorted crap. That one smelled from the start. And I never did and still don't know why we let Bernard go. Would have been awesome to see him play with Pat.
Definitely Marbury didn't think he would come here and help force Isiah's hand in trading KVH and Mutombo for the "younger/more athletic" Fugazy and Nazr because for some reason he had some kind of a grudge over KVH. Eventhough we were playing well under Wilkins on both ends. Things really snowballed for Isiah after those brilliant trades. Crawful, Curry, Jerome James, Mo Taylor, Penny, Qrich etc etc etc
gunsnewing wrote:Definitely Marbury didn't think he would come here and help force Isiah's hand in trading KVH and Mutombo for the "younger/more athletic" Fugazy and Nazr because for some reason he had some kind of a grudge over KVH. Eventhough we were playing well under Wilkins on both ends. Things really snowballed for Isiah after those brilliant trades. Crawful, Curry, Jerome James, Mo Taylor, Penny, Qrich etc etc etc
forgot about the $15 million dollar penny contract that was some how a throw in.
the worst part about that trade was , Dice actually played decent for the suns, and his 11 million dollar contract was expiring in 3 months..HELLO NASH 
imagine having Nash in his prime! Wouldn't have mattered because Dolan and Isiah would've found a way to screw it up anyway. Always starts at the top
Your probably right..MDA and NASH were really a perfect fit, I highly doubt NASH becomes an MVP under IT
toodarkmark wrote:I remember thinking Charles Smith and Doc Rivers were worth giving up Mark Jackson and a 1st Rounder for. If only we had traded Greg Anthony instead and kept Xavier McDaniel, I wonder if 92-93 would have been better. Probably not much, as Jordan and the Bulls might have still won, but I do think Mark Jackson would have been more beneficial down the line than Charles "4 Tries" Smith and Patient Rivers.
X-Man bolted for the celtics. It was all agent (Jordan's) similar to Lin. That move by X-Man did him and the Knicks no good but helped the Bulls a lot. To this day everyone knows that Jordan made that move for the Knicks.
Vmart wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I remember thinking Charles Smith and Doc Rivers were worth giving up Mark Jackson and a 1st Rounder for. If only we had traded Greg Anthony instead and kept Xavier McDaniel, I wonder if 92-93 would have been better. Probably not much, as Jordan and the Bulls might have still won, but I do think Mark Jackson would have been more beneficial down the line than Charles "4 Tries" Smith and Patient Rivers.
X-Man bolted for the celtics. It was all agent (Jordan's) similar to Lin. That move by X-Man did him and the Knicks no good but helped the Bulls a lot. To this day everyone knows that Jordan made that move for the Knicks.
This is not completely factual. This was what the media played up, but in actuality the Knicks signed Harvey Grant to a restricted free agent contract, and a lot more money than X-Man was getting paid. Then they spent the summer trying to trade for Charles Smith. If the Knicks had come to X-Man July 1st and said, here is a 3 year contract for the money you want, he would have been a Knick.
As a matter of fact I think it was Grunfeld or Checkets, who later said that the main owner in 92 was upset that X-Man signed elsewhere, where Checkets or Grunfeld thought X-Man wanted too much. From then on the Knicks never cheaped much, until Lin.
Afterwards the Pippen/ Jordan agent who was also X-Man's (and Ewings) conspiracy started, but in actuality X-Man would have been back had the Knicks come to him with the money he wanted in July or August, before September 10th, which is when he signed.
VCoug wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:The Spree for Van Horn was a trade I was wrong about it. In retrospect, it was good trade for the Knicks.
Spree had one good season left and then he was washed up and out of the league. We got younger and Van Horn played well for us. The next move to get Tim Thomas was horrible, but I can honestly say I wasn't crazy about that trade.
That Tracy McGrady trade hurt only because of the addition of our 2012 pick
imagine getting that pick back we could have drafted
Perry Jones- scoring and defensive versatility- no comparison just a true ball player
John Jenkins- lethal shooting threat
Jeffrey Taylor- defense and shooting- young Battier
Orlando Johnson- defense and shooting- Sefolosha type 2/3
Kim English- defense and shooting- Afflalo like
just to name a few, a very good addition to our team could have been had, we could have even traded down and got 2 of them or better yet moved the pick for a proven vet to help right away
Nazr Mohammad was the only one I praised about and was dead wrong... some guy on another Knicks forum pointed that out and I had nothing to say... nothing... although Nazr got a ring from Spurs I think...
I thought trading starks for spree was a bad idea. I thought he would be a trouble maker in nyc. He was a pretty model citizen until he quit onJVG
toodarkmark wrote:Vmart wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I remember thinking Charles Smith and Doc Rivers were worth giving up Mark Jackson and a 1st Rounder for. If only we had traded Greg Anthony instead and kept Xavier McDaniel, I wonder if 92-93 would have been better. Probably not much, as Jordan and the Bulls might have still won, but I do think Mark Jackson would have been more beneficial down the line than Charles "4 Tries" Smith and Patient Rivers.
X-Man bolted for the celtics. It was all agent (Jordan's) similar to Lin. That move by X-Man did him and the Knicks no good but helped the Bulls a lot. To this day everyone knows that Jordan made that move for the Knicks.
This is not completely factual. This was what the media played up, but in actuality the Knicks signed Harvey Grant to a restricted free agent contract, and a lot more money than X-Man was getting paid. Then they spent the summer trying to trade for Charles Smith. If the Knicks had come to X-Man July 1st and said, here is a 3 year contract for the money you want, he would have been a Knick.
As a matter of fact I think it was Grunfeld or Checkets, who later said that the main owner in 92 was upset that X-Man signed elsewhere, where Checkets or Grunfeld thought X-Man wanted too much. From then on the Knicks never cheaped much, until Lin.
Afterwards the Pippen/ Jordan agent who was also X-Man's (and Ewings) conspiracy started, but in actuality X-Man would have been back had the Knicks come to him with the money he wanted in July or August, before September 10th, which is when he signed.
The way I recall it was that the Knicks never got an opportunity to make X-man an offer. As for Charles Smith he came after X-Man had made his bed with the Cetics. To this day Joe Beningo will tell you that is the way it was. As for Harvey Grant this is what the Knicks had planned. http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/02/sports...
I thought We would not miss Dlee (Sign and trade) but the hindsight clarity of looking back offers the chance to say he would have been a better pairing financially and talent wise than Amare given we got Tyson.
It took Tyson to get healthy, a championship run with him as the defensive anchor and AMNESTY to get him here so there was no thought back then (when we were clearing the decks for Lebron) we could get a center of this caliber.
I thought the Amare signing was significant but paired with Melo has diluted his out put along (spacing problem). INjuries to AMare also considered.
Its hindsight, but for What Dlee gets paid, his rebounding and scoring next to a defensive stopper I think on paper yield a better chemistry flow. Without the chores of playing the 5 and staying staying out of foul trouble I think his defense against other 4's would improve.
Dlee gets like11 mil a year? Very resonable. THe extra 8 mil could buy alot of talent these days.
Lets hope Melo-AMare-Tyson add up to the best front court this side of LA! Dwight-Pau-Artest are monsters!
I"d love to see the KNicks beat MIami and the N*ts enroute to a NY-LA finals!
Something comforting to see the Blue road uni's play in LA against the Laker gold court. My memories are fond from my ute!
we won 2 of the three series back in the day!
I was very wrong about Anthony Randolph. I thought he would be great to have. He turned out to be a dud (So far). I was wrong about wanting Morris Almond pretty bad and I also wanted Kareem Rush. They both turned out to be duds. I MIGHT be wrong about shrugging David Lee off after we signed Stoudemire, but if Stat gets his game back together then I'll be cool with him again. I am still a fan of his. I am still not a fan of the Melo trade at all and I wont wave the white flag in defeat until we win playoff series and I don't mean only winning in the first round. I want a couple of serious runs, God forbid a championship. I was also overly harsh on Jamal Crawford before we traded for him, but he never helped us win jack squad (I say that and I am and was a fan when he was on the Knicks) so I really wasn't THAT harsh or wrong.
I was also wrong because I liked hiring Isiah and him trading for Marbury. I was wrong on those. I was OK with trading KVH for TT, but that was a pure lateral trade. Both of those players were f' ups, one way or another.
Oherwise, I feel like I've been right on most of the other moves... but those moves are simply off the top of my head. I'm sure there were a couple of others I was wrong about.
BigDaddyG wrote:VCoug wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:The Spree for Van Horn was a trade I was wrong about it. In retrospect, it was good trade for the Knicks.
Spree had one good season left and then he was washed up and out of the league. We got younger and Van Horn played well for us. The next move to get Tim Thomas was horrible, but I can honestly say I wasn't crazy about that trade.
Okay. Let me get this straight.
So Spree was washed up and out of the league. And yet after that whole 40 game stretch that "KVH played well for us", what happened to KVH? Why he had 1 good season with the Bucks and then was over and out. So much for getting younger.
Sprewell self-destructed. Comparing total skillsets, KVH just sucked. KVH couldn't and wouldn't guard you. Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor.
Trading KVH for essentially nothing (giving away Tim Thomas and getting him back for nothing) was pretty much a wash.
jrodmc wrote:Let me get this straight.
So Spree was washed up and out of the league. And yet after that whole 40 game stretch that "KVH played well for us", what happened to KVH? Why he had 1 good season with the Bucks and then was over and out. So much for getting younger. Sprewell self-destructed. Comparing total skillsets, KVH just sucked. KVH couldn't and wouldn't guard you. Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor.
Trading KVH for essentially nothing (giving away Tim Thomas and getting him back for nothing) was pretty much a wash.
Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor for one more year and then he sucked. I was sad to see Spree go too, but the fact is that we got rid of at the right time. Was KVH ever as good a player a Spree? No. But he still had more left in the tank than Spree and he was a legit small forward. He couldn't defend, but he was a helluva rebounder for his position and was a consistent three-point shooter. I remember reading that Sprewell had like 10 dunks for all of the 2003-2004. There was a time Spree got that many dunks in a two game stretch. We sold at the right time.
BigDaddyG wrote:jrodmc wrote:Let me get this straight.
So Spree was washed up and out of the league. And yet after that whole 40 game stretch that "KVH played well for us", what happened to KVH? Why he had 1 good season with the Bucks and then was over and out. So much for getting younger. Sprewell self-destructed. Comparing total skillsets, KVH just sucked. KVH couldn't and wouldn't guard you. Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor.
Trading KVH for essentially nothing (giving away Tim Thomas and getting him back for nothing) was pretty much a wash.
Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor for one more year and then he sucked. I was sad to see Spree go too, but the fact is that we got rid of at the right time. Was KVH ever as good a player a Spree? No. But he still had more left in the tank than Spree and he was a legit small forward. He couldn't defend, but he was a helluva rebounder for his position and was a consistent three-point shooter. I remember reading that Sprewell had like 10 dunks for all of the 2003-2004. There was a time Spree got that many dunks in a two game stretch. We sold at the right time.
Even if you're correct and we did sell at the right time getting KVH back is terrible value.
VCoug wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:jrodmc wrote:Let me get this straight.
So Spree was washed up and out of the league. And yet after that whole 40 game stretch that "KVH played well for us", what happened to KVH? Why he had 1 good season with the Bucks and then was over and out. So much for getting younger. Sprewell self-destructed. Comparing total skillsets, KVH just sucked. KVH couldn't and wouldn't guard you. Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor.
Trading KVH for essentially nothing (giving away Tim Thomas and getting him back for nothing) was pretty much a wash.
Sprewell could singlehandedly change games at either end of the floor for one more year and then he sucked. I was sad to see Spree go too, but the fact is that we got rid of at the right time. Was KVH ever as good a player a Spree? No. But he still had more left in the tank than Spree and he was a legit small forward. He couldn't defend, but he was a helluva rebounder for his position and was a consistent three-point shooter. I remember reading that Sprewell had like 10 dunks for all of the 2003-2004. There was a time Spree got that many dunks in a two game stretch. We sold at the right time.
Even if you're correct and we did sell at the right time getting KVH back is terrible value.
Agreed. KVH was a good player, but not even close to equal value for Spree. I still think if we had kept spree he may have managed to stave off self-destructing for another year at least. Spreewell was in many ways the last true Knick.
