Knicks · ESPN Eastern Div Power rating as of 8/20 (page 3)
mrKnickShot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrityWhat has OKC won?
a lot of playoff games
Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrityWhat has OKC won?
a lot of playoff games
How many against Miami?
Miami is all that counts - they did no better than we did - and your boy Harden horrendous.
earthmansurfer wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrityWhat has OKC won?
Who the heck thought we had a chance vs. Miami? And we really needed all the injuries and fire boxing to help us out, no? And, we got embarrassed? More than OKC? Ind? With a depleted squad ??? C'mon.
Now I know it is always something with this team in the last 40 years but its been a while since they have been this good going into a season. Will they screw it up? Probably but give them a chance!
Look at OKC's roster, it is YOUNG and they are playing awesome. Clearly they are closer to Miami than we are and they proved it pretty much. IF you want to take out Miami, and then OKC in the finals you need a very deep and talented team. We did well in getting some bench play at the PG position, but we are banking on Felton replacing a young and comer in Lin. That is what our season in large part hinges on. Our starting pg is Felton. This is hit or miss. He played well here and then came back down to earth the weeks preceding the trade. Was he playing above his head? Looking at his career stats one would say for sure yes. But, being where you want to be can sure change someone to play great. We'll see.
To do all that we did last year and to let Lin walk is a huge gamble imo. Again, it is on Felton to replace him and on Stat and Melo to of course play well together. Chandler being able to score (and be a threat on offense) with more than put backs will be critical as well. Chemistry is going to be key, as well as our players improving substantially.
OKC is not built to beat Miami. The Lakers possibly are if they stay healthy.
Felton is hit or miss but Lin was not? I think they are both question marks. And I thought that the team as a whole got a pass prior to the Melo trade for playing badly - "Are Yoots were all messed up in the head with all the Melo trade drama"? The knicks went 12-16 in the 28 games prior to the Melo trade and 14-14 post trade.
Lin has not proved that he can beat or play well against good teams - he looked pretty bad against them. I do wish they resigned him though.
Great point about Tyson - he really needs to step up offensively so that we are not playing 4 on 5.
Also, with Felton, Kidd and Prigs - we are deeper at PG than with Lin. BD and Bibby.
There are many question marks like there are going into each season but we are certainly better than last year.
gunsnewing wrote:OKC beat the Lakers and Spurs
They did but we are talking about getting by Miami. And now, they will not get past the Lakers either.
technomaster wrote:You don't worry about getting by Miami. Our first objective is getting out of the first round - that means ranking in the top 5 or 6 playoff spots in the east. You kind of hope they develop an injury along the way or get knocked off by someone else.
Yup. Lets see if Woody can continue what he did in the regular season to get us a good seed.
The Knicks are the media's favorite punching bag so I find it hard to take anything they say about the Knicks seriously. The Knicks finished the season last year 18-6 with Melo on fire and the best defense in the league. Apparently none of that has been factored into the predicted records and seedings for the East.
mrKnickShot wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrityWhat has OKC won?
Who the heck thought we had a chance vs. Miami? And we really needed all the injuries and fire boxing to help us out, no? And, we got embarrassed? More than OKC? Ind? With a depleted squad ??? C'mon.
Now I know it is always something with this team in the last 40 years but its been a while since they have been this good going into a season. Will they screw it up? Probably but give them a chance!
Look at OKC's roster, it is YOUNG and they are playing awesome. Clearly they are closer to Miami than we are and they proved it pretty much. IF you want to take out Miami, and then OKC in the finals you need a very deep and talented team. We did well in getting some bench play at the PG position, but we are banking on Felton replacing a young and comer in Lin. That is what our season in large part hinges on. Our starting pg is Felton. This is hit or miss. He played well here and then came back down to earth the weeks preceding the trade. Was he playing above his head? Looking at his career stats one would say for sure yes. But, being where you want to be can sure change someone to play great. We'll see.
To do all that we did last year and to let Lin walk is a huge gamble imo. Again, it is on Felton to replace him and on Stat and Melo to of course play well together. Chandler being able to score (and be a threat on offense) with more than put backs will be critical as well. Chemistry is going to be key, as well as our players improving substantially.
OKC is not built to beat Miami. The Lakers possibly are if they stay healthy.
Felton is hit or miss but Lin was not? I think they are both question marks. And I thought that the team as a whole got a pass prior to the Melo trade for playing badly - "Are Yoots were all messed up in the head with all the Melo trade drama"? The knicks went 12-16 in the 28 games prior to the Melo trade and 14-14 post trade.
Lin has not proved that he can beat or play well against good teams - he looked pretty bad against them. I do wish they resigned him though.
Great point about Tyson - he really needs to step up offensively so that we are not playing 4 on 5.
Also, with Felton, Kidd and Prigs - we are deeper at PG than with Lin. BD and Bibby.
There are many question marks like there are going into each season but we are certainly better than last year.
OKC has some great young players, most under contract (except for Harden). If they want to change their lineup to go against Miami, it is very very doable. I imagine they need a scoring center to flatten Miami - perhaps they can trade an asset or two for a great center. We let a very tradeable asset walk.
Felton has been mostly miss in his entire career. Lin has been hit, big hit. So, you are betting he turns things around and for Lin to play worse than he did last year? I'll take the hard worker who produced. I'll take that chance and most fans wanted the same. I do like Felton, would have preferred both. I think all of us can agree on that. Play who plays better.
I can't disagree with the poor team play but Melo sure didn't help things out, did he? I like the guy, he does seem to be turning things around. But, the burden falls on our stars now and did then. And we got one less of em.
If Tyson gets an offensive game, that really helps. At the same time, it looks like Stats game is improving there, judging by his personal training with Hakeem.
We are for sure deeper at PG and I said so, but I would still have taken Lin and those other guys as backups. Money isn't an object for Dolan. A billionaire that owns a team and lets a player go, a pretty good player, due to taxes (that the player, Lin, would pay for anyway) does not make sense - it was personal. That shouldn't get lost. And if the season doesn't amount to a championship AND Lin plays better than Felton, we are all going to hear about it I'm sure.
We are better, but that doesn't help us get past Miami or OKC. They are both better than us I would say. The wild card is what we don't know regarding newer players. It happened with Lin and perhaps something close to as crazy happens this year.
And unfortunately, every year ESPN predicitions come out, everyone's panties get in a knot and then the Knicks underachieve and finish exactly where the Knicks were projected.
Keep in mind during the 18-6 stretch Melo played out of his mind. He's not playing like that for an entire season. Best case I think you can slot us in at 4/5, but more likely 5.
Jason Kidd had his worst season as a pro and our frontcourt depth consists of two of the oldest players in the league, so while the additions look good on paper there is a lot that needs to break right.
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.
MS wrote:
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.
Well, Rose is out and the Bulls are still ranked like 4th. Bynum is injury prone and all the other Sixers are unproven but the Sixers are ranked pretty high also.
I can't really take those rankings too seriously because in the large scheme of things they don't make sense. I do think the Knicks will actually win in the range of 46 to 50 games which is inline with what ESPN listed for the Knick's record. I just don't think the Bulls and Sixers and possibly other teams will be as good - record wise- as those rankings indicate.
MS wrote:
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.
Well, Rose is out and the Bulls are still ranked like 4th. Bynum is injury prone and all the other Sixers are unproven but the Sixers are ranked pretty high also.
I can't really take those rankings too seriously because in the large scheme of things they don't make sense. I do think the Knicks will actually win in the range of 46 to 50 games which is inline with what ESPN listed for the Knick's record. I just don't think the Bulls and Sixers and possibly other teams will be as good - record wise- as those rankings indicate.
NUPE wrote:MS wrote:
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.Well, Rose is out and the Bulls are still ranked like 4th. Bynum is injury prone and all the other Sixers are unproven but the Sixers are ranked pretty high also.
I can't really take those rankings too seriously because in the large scheme of things they don't make sense. I do think the Knicks will actually win in the range of 46 to 50 games which is inline with what ESPN listed for the Knick's record. I just don't think the Bulls and Sixers and possibly other teams will be as good - record wise- as those rankings indicate.
Clearly the Knicks are getting some hate. We are a better team than Philly and the Bulls (without Rose). I would bet we are better then Boston as well, but they are proven during the playoffs. That is what it will come down to.
I do hope Shump comes back well. A bit scary when his athleticism is a HUGE part of his game. But, he is great with those long arms on defense, so I think he will still be good there, until he gets his lateral movement back, however long that takes.
MS wrote:The Knicks deserve no respect till they earn it.And unfortunately, every year ESPN predicitions come out, everyone's panties get in a knot and then the Knicks underachieve and finish exactly where the Knicks were projected.
Keep in mind during the 18-6 stretch Melo played out of his mind. He's not playing like that for an entire season. Best case I think you can slot us in at 4/5, but more likely 5.
Jason Kidd had his worst season as a pro and our frontcourt depth consists of two of the oldest players in the league, so while the additions look good on paper there is a lot that needs to break right.
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.
Never understood why when people try to make predictions for a team for the upcoming season,they only look at the offensive side of the ball. Amare and Melo fit-okay on the defensive side when we were practically leading the league in some defensive categories after Woodson took over. If we are going to compete with the elite, its going to be on the defensive sode of the ball. Though it was a short stretch (24 games) we proved that we can D-up when it is made priority #1.
Even without Rose, why do you think some still have the Bulls ranked relatively high? Thibbs and his D. Even with a healthy Rose, match up their roster with other teams in the east and offensively they will rank somewhere in the bottom-middle of the pack. But for the past 2 years, they have been 1 of the top 2 teams in east mainly on the backs of their Defense.
gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrity
I thought the Knicks had a chance against the Heat because I thought they would actually be able to defend them well enough. The issue was that the guys we had at guard all pretty much fell apart under the pressure. JR didn't show up, Landry and even Shump was shaky. Shump and Baron blew up their knees. About the only one who did OK was Bibby. But moreover I feel Woody didn't live up to his role either. He failed to use the Spread offense and Motion plays that actually worked for this team when he used them during the regular season. He simply got brain lock. I also didn't expect STAT to cut up his hand. Overall I don't think the Knicks put forth their best effort. Still they were badly out of sorts after all of the issues late in the year and they team did need a major upgrade in talent overall.
I think they did address some issues this summer. The Knicks got tougher, bigger and deeper. I still wish they would've been able to add some more perimeter shooting, but as I said no team is perfect. The Knicks will have a real training camp and preseason and they'll have a real set of PG's which they didn't have to start last year. I believe Woody is gonna stress taking care of the ball and making teams work for every single point. Most importantly they have an identity. It's clear that this is going to be a defensive team 1st.
MS wrote:The Knicks deserve no respect till they earn it.And unfortunately, every year ESPN predicitions come out, everyone's panties get in a knot and then the Knicks underachieve and finish exactly where the Knicks were projected.
Keep in mind during the 18-6 stretch Melo played out of his mind. He's not playing like that for an entire season. Best case I think you can slot us in at 4/5, but more likely 5.
Jason Kidd had his worst season as a pro and our frontcourt depth consists of two of the oldest players in the league, so while the additions look good on paper there is a lot that needs to break right.
If Shumpert was healthy I think we would be ranked higher, but the pieces in our starting unit don't fit together. Amare is best at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Woodson has no offense to speak of and our hopes depend on Amare retunring to form and not doing something stupid for the third year in a row to injure himself.
Like the deserved respect idea, but given that, the Nets deserve to be ranked where they are because of what, exactly?
So for 1/4 of the season Melo played out of his mind. You have guarantees from his people that he's planning to tone that down for the majority of next season? He has to play out of his mind for an entire season for us to be ranked realistically?
Shump has shown some incredible promise. But lets see him last an entire season before he's dubbed savior of the world.
mrKnickShot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I dont know if we are right there with Miami. You thought we had a chance last year going into that series and the knicks were embarassed. You have to put down the orange and blue shades and accept the fact that 3yrs from now it will be 43yrs without a championsip as teams like Miami, LA, OKC win. As the Knicks in 3yrs bring in other teams castoffs to bring another decade or more of capped out subpar mediocrityWhat has OKC won?
Who the heck thought we had a chance vs. Miami? And we really needed all the injuries and fire boxing to help us out, no? And, we got embarrassed? More than OKC? Ind? With a depleted squad ??? C'mon.
Now I know it is always something with this team in the last 40 years but its been a while since they have been this good going into a season. Will they screw it up? Probably but give them a chance!
Hahaha...this is just about how I feel.
nixluva wrote:Boston is getting a bit too much respect IMO. They can't remain at the top forever and I think this year they will have to rely on their younger players a bit more. Even last year they weren't that much better than the Knicks, and the Knicks had MAJOR issues with the PG spot and both of our top player slumping. So why are the Celtics and Sixers better than the Knicks?
Because their top players show up when they need to and get the Ws. Who cares what it looks like on paper? You want respect? Prove it in the post season by going to the conference finals or championship games a few times in the next 5 years - you'd get respect too. We suck, we don't get respect, not complicated.