Knicks · Gallinari: Knicks will "never win" (page 9)
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
Yep. Hill and Douglas were glued to the bench.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
They were and it was a disgrace how D'Antoni used the youth on this team including Gallo/Chandler/Moz.
He never made Gallo triple threat player. He played Gallo over Chandler as the starting 3 to satisfy his pets ego when Chandler was better at playing the 3 with the starters. Gallo was historically a slow starter.... feel the game out type of player. His personality was one of taking a backseat. Gallo should have been moved to the bench and brought into the game as a 6th man with a green light to fire and make plays.
Moz didn't play much because he committed fouls something D'Antoni hated because fouls slowed down the team's pace. Matter of fact Moz was close to getting the Hill treatment and if it wasn't for Purp starting a near brawl in ATL getting suspended Moz may have never received any PT for the rest of the season. D'Antoni basically let Blake Griffin ruin Moz's career or at least he tried to let ruin him.
He called Douglas and Hill bad rookies
He berated Fields in the media telling him to "STOP CUTTING"
There were times you'd thought Purp and Bender were our 3/4 future
Used times during seasons to expose Nate(when he could have handled him better behind closed doors or with mgmt)
Just pathetic how he developed or didn't develop the youth should I say and disrespected them constantly
I do miss this stuff from these 3
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
Yep. Hill and Douglas were glued to the bench.
well i don't know what you're driving at here... did you think they were good pickups? i liked walsh's work as a drafter as a whole but hill wasn't his best work. i liked douglas as an energy defender but he got beat up working through nba moving picks. and he had no court vision. you can't play for d'antoni in the backcourt without court vision. douglas should have worked his butt off on his left hand but at the end of the day he is an undersized shooting guard, a notch or two below tony delk. hill was a project with not a lot of polish. not a bad little midrange shot but really a garbahj time player. and without a boris diaw-type upside what is d'antoni supposed to do with him? that season duhon, hughes, and harrington had to be given minutes or there would have been a poisonous atmosphere, far worse than the obvious roster-flush situation everyone knew was going on. in a roster flush season you have to keep up appearances and in new york that means playing vets over rookies. this, aside from d'antoni's stubborn streak when it comes to playing rookies and keeping a very short rotation.
so i don't begrudge d'antoni not playing those rookies a whole lot. on the other hand, walsh found fields whose talents were squandered after the trade, and he also found harrelson and shumpert. shumpert if he recovers is a very promising player, and harrelson should have played a lot more last year under woodson. i think he will be a valuable guy on a title-contending team.
dk7th wrote:Its very simple. The organization drafted those guys because they saw something in them. Hindsight is great but their fate and future was not set after a D'antoni training camp that saw the team go 1-9 to start the season. Your earlier point, that the 'reasonable' thing for the Knicks to do after D'Antoni was fired would have been to try and develop team chemistry and build for the future rather than having Melo play out of his mind to help the team make the playoffs was why I brought up year two. Saying Walsh would have done this if he was in charge because he was reasonable is why I brought up year 2. Reasonable is developing players on a 23 win team not talking about the playoffs. Reasonable isn't playing guys that are leaving the majority of the minutes while you give your young guys a ton of dnps. 8-12 minutes a night on a 23 win team certainly isn't going to hurt the franchise and probably wouldn't impact the game any more negatively then some of the guys that were getting the minutes. Maybe the Knicks only win 21 games that year but get to keep the pick that became Royce White because Houston saw something in Hill that they would not get the chance to see if he never gets on the court or gets into a flow or rythm. Nothing reasonable happened in that second year.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
Yep. Hill and Douglas were glued to the bench.
well i don't know what you're driving at here... did you think they were good pickups? i liked walsh's work as a drafter as a whole but hill wasn't his best work. i liked douglas as an energy defender but he got beat up working through nba moving picks. and he had no court vision. you can't play for d'antoni in the backcourt without court vision. douglas should have worked his butt off on his left hand but at the end of the day he is an undersized shooting guard, a notch or two below tony delk. hill was a project with not a lot of polish. not a bad little midrange shot but really a garbahj time player. and without a boris diaw-type upside what is d'antoni supposed to do with him? that season duhon, hughes, and harrington had to be given minutes or there would have been a poisonous atmosphere, far worse than the obvious roster-flush situation everyone knew was going on. in a roster flush season you have to keep up appearances and in new york that means playing vets over rookies. this, aside from d'antoni's stubborn streak when it comes to playing rookies and keeping a very short rotation.
so i don't begrudge d'antoni not playing those rookies a whole lot. on the other hand, walsh found fields whose talents were squandered after the trade, and he also found harrelson and shumpert. shumpert if he recovers is a very promising player, and harrelson should have played a lot more last year under woodson. i think he will be a valuable guy on a title-contending team.
3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
They were and it was a disgrace how D'Antoni used the youth on this team including Gallo/Chandler/Moz.
He never made Gallo triple threat player. He played Gallo over Chandler as the starting 3 to satisfy his pets ego when Chandler was better at playing the 3 with the starters. Gallo was historically a slow starter.... feel the game out type of player. His personality was one of taking a backseat. Gallo should have been moved to the bench and brought into the game as a 6th man with a green light to fire and make plays.
Moz didn't play much because he committed fouls something D'Antoni hated because fouls slowed down the team's pace. Matter of fact Moz was close to getting the Hill treatment and if it wasn't for Purp starting a near brawl in ATL getting suspended Moz may have never received any PT for the rest of the season. D'Antoni basically let Blake Griffin ruin Moz's career or at least he tried to let ruin him.
He called Douglas and Hill bad rookies
He berated Fields in the media telling him to "STOP CUTTING"
There were times you'd thought Purp and Bender were our 3/4 future
Used times during seasons to expose Nate(when he could have handled him better behind closed doors or with mgmt)Just pathetic how he developed or didn't develop the youth should I say and disrespected them constantly
I do miss this stuff from these 3
3G4G, I thought that you were a TKF alter ego (robot thinker who defies logic) but I was so wrong. Very good post dude!
3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
They were and it was a disgrace how D'Antoni used the youth on this team including Gallo/Chandler/Moz.
He never made Gallo triple threat player. He played Gallo over Chandler as the starting 3 to satisfy his pets ego when Chandler was better at playing the 3 with the starters. Gallo was historically a slow starter.... feel the game out type of player. His personality was one of taking a backseat. Gallo should have been moved to the bench and brought into the game as a 6th man with a green light to fire and make plays.
Moz didn't play much because he committed fouls something D'Antoni hated because fouls slowed down the team's pace. Matter of fact Moz was close to getting the Hill treatment and if it wasn't for Purp starting a near brawl in ATL getting suspended Moz may have never received any PT for the rest of the season. D'Antoni basically let Blake Griffin ruin Moz's career or at least he tried to let ruin him.
He called Douglas and Hill bad rookies
He berated Fields in the media telling him to "STOP CUTTING"
There were times you'd thought Purp and Bender were our 3/4 future
Used times during seasons to expose Nate(when he could have handled him better behind closed doors or with mgmt)Just pathetic how he developed or didn't develop the youth should I say and disrespected them constantly
I do miss this stuff from these 3
Awesome.
To few of moments though we witnessed and now we have sold everything for 15sec of fame.
I really hate it, really I do
3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
To few of moments though we witnessed and now we have sold everything for 15sec of fame.
I really hate it, really I do
THE BIG 3!!! And now those guys are in total demand across the league while helping their team reach the finals. We truly missed out on 3 of the NBA's top notch talent. Every championship team of the past 50 years have built around guys like Moz, Wilson and Gallo. Hell that's all you need! That's one hell of a big 3 right there. Whoever builds around them will be champions in no time. Who needs a dpoy and an elite player? Bring back the big 3! 
mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective...none of the end-game heroics you are listing or his alleged scoring prowess make him a number one player.
Question..Did he play like a number one player the last 24 games of last season?
no he didn't. he merely "beasted" and "put the team on his back." that's not the same as playing winning, successful basketball. it's a team game. this is woodson's fault too. the proof is he was smothered in the playoffs. number ones have other ways of contributing to winning, both in the regular season but especially in the playoffs. they adapt. they get their own and play for others. dirk is the most recent paradigm for carmelo to follow.
the problem with players like carmelo and stoudemire is that they don't make the right decisions with the ball most of the time. and having them play together merely compounds the problem.
So in your line of thinking...Woodson and Melo should have sacrificed the balance of the season to foster the attitude of playing "team" basketball with the remaining players who wasn't injured even if it meant losing games and not making the playoffs?
YES! if reasonable people like walsh were running the knicks that is what you do, both with the first half-season of 2010-2011 and again last season. but hysterical, greedy people are running the knicks. they prefer fool's gold results to patiently building a winner. carmelo and stoudemire are perfect at fulfilling the former as they have demonstrated.
by my logic you let harrington and his ilk get theirs that season so they can get decent contracts down the road. it's a shell game. making the playoffs was always a mirage but you try to keep up appearances to satisfy the fanbase. your coach actually protects what players he plans on using for a fresh start. it's demoralizing to play in a cynical situation like the knicks were in.
2010-2011 was the real start of the walsh/dantoni era. very shortly after that was aborted.
what rookies and 2nd year players are you referring to? i am looking at the rosters from those seasons and i don't know who you are referring to. toney douglas? jordan hill?
They were and it was a disgrace how D'Antoni used the youth on this team including Gallo/Chandler/Moz.
He never made Gallo triple threat player. He played Gallo over Chandler as the starting 3 to satisfy his pets ego when Chandler was better at playing the 3 with the starters. Gallo was historically a slow starter.... feel the game out type of player. His personality was one of taking a backseat. Gallo should have been moved to the bench and brought into the game as a 6th man with a green light to fire and make plays.
Moz didn't play much because he committed fouls something D'Antoni hated because fouls slowed down the team's pace. Matter of fact Moz was close to getting the Hill treatment and if it wasn't for Purp starting a near brawl in ATL getting suspended Moz may have never received any PT for the rest of the season. D'Antoni basically let Blake Griffin ruin Moz's career or at least he tried to let ruin him.
He called Douglas and Hill bad rookies
He berated Fields in the media telling him to "STOP CUTTING"
There were times you'd thought Purp and Bender were our 3/4 future
Used times during seasons to expose Nate(when he could have handled him better behind closed doors or with mgmt)Just pathetic how he developed or didn't develop the youth should I say and disrespected them constantly
I do miss this stuff from these 3
3G4G, I thought that you were a TKF alter ego (robot thinker who defies logic) but I was so wrong. Very good post dude!
DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute....actually this is something myself and 3g agree on....
nice try tho...
TheloniusMonk wrote:3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
To few of moments though we witnessed and now we have sold everything for 15sec of fame.
I really hate it, really I doTHE BIG 3!!! And now those guys are in total demand across the league while helping their team reach the finals. We truly missed out on 3 of the NBA's top notch talent. Every championship team of the past 50 years have built around guys like Moz, Wilson and Gallo. Hell that's all you need! That's one hell of a big 3 right there. Whoever builds around them will be champions in no time. Who needs a dpoy and an elite player? Bring back the big 3!
Yeah because the Nuggets have only been better than us since trading. Melo has so many chips Jordan is probably sweating bullets being replaced by him as the G.O.A.T.
Melo is so good he could be traded by all 30 teams in the NBA and each time he's traded by each team the assets given up would increase
We sure have one helluva Max Player who's never won at the highest levels in the NBA and might as well chalk Shumpert up as amounting to nothing more than Gallo/Chandler
3G4G wrote:TheloniusMonk wrote:3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
To few of moments though we witnessed and now we have sold everything for 15sec of fame.
I really hate it, really I doTHE BIG 3!!! And now those guys are in total demand across the league while helping their team reach the finals. We truly missed out on 3 of the NBA's top notch talent. Every championship team of the past 50 years have built around guys like Moz, Wilson and Gallo. Hell that's all you need! That's one hell of a big 3 right there. Whoever builds around them will be champions in no time. Who needs a dpoy and an elite player? Bring back the big 3!
Yeah because the Nuggets have only been better than us since trading. Melo has so many chips Jordan is probably sweating bullets being replaced by him as the G.O.A.T.
Melo is so good he could be traded by all 30 teams in the NBA and each time he's traded by each team the assets given up would increase
We sure have one helluva Max Player who's never won at the highest levels in the NBA and might as well chalk Shumpert up as amounting to nothing more than Gallo/Chandler
dude be careful defending the kids or else you may be re-labeled as a TKF clone and "robo thinker".. you must get back to bashing dantoni.. and speaking down on the kids....pronto!!!
what i don't get is that people will be quick to be sarcastic about the kids being stars you build around, I don't think anyone ever made that claim.... the sad thing is, they say that as if we got a player who has come close or accomplished those things..... it really is odd reasoning...
tkf wrote:DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute.... funny you give him props on an issue we have agreed on before, actually this very issue right here.. I am sure he will verify that.....nice try tho...
True while we are split about 65/35 on D'AnToni philosophically we were in agreement over his mismanagement of players, in particular our youth.
Yeah you guys can try and clown Moz for getting dunked on by Griffin now but that's not what you were feeling then. Typical..... all of you keep this in consideration should he ever reach free agency again and we contemplate his availability
3G4G wrote:tkf wrote:DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute.... funny you give him props on an issue we have agreed on before, actually this very issue right here.. I am sure he will verify that.....nice try tho...
True while we are split about 65/35 on D'AnToni philosophically we were in agreement over his mismanagement of players, in particular our youth.Yeah you guys can try and clown Moz for getting dunked on by Griffin now but that's not what you were feeling then. Typical..... all of you keep this in consideration should he ever reach free agency again and we contemplate his availability
yea, I agree dantoni didn't do the best job handling the kids, he was not perfect, and we don't claim that he is... we do agree on some things, others we don't when it comes to dantoni, but that is cool...
and yea, now it is time to clown moz.. typical knick fan behavior tho.... I can never understand how you can defend your players till the end when they are here.. once they leave, they are bums.. go figure..
is there just anything wrong with saying.. Yea, we may have given up a lot of talent lately, but we are happy with what we got back and are willing to roll with whatever happens.. instead of trying to belittle every single player that left here in order to justify extremely questionable moves...
I don't like the move so I am going to express how I feel.. and note, I only point out the facts about carmelo, never said the guy was a scrub, just that he isn't what people have made him out to be. his resume backs that up..
ChuckBuck wrote:One of my favorite highlights of Gallo in a Knicks uniform:
gotta love this one as well.
tkf wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:One of my favorite highlights of Gallo in a Knicks uniform:
gotta love this one as well.
Nice block!
This one is just ridiculous on so many levels. Mozgov's career highlight!