Knicks · Hollinger on the most polarizing player: Melo (page 3)

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

It's a good thing the Knicks organization didn't always work this way. We would have never had Ewing, Clyde, or anything that made the organization special. Our glory years would have been the like the current Hawks teams.

I don't disagree. I have no problem building through the draft and certainly don't mind making better trades. However, we are habitual failures at the draft (was hard to screw up on Ewing), and we suck at making trades.

Kenny Walker, Gerald Wilkens ..............................................................................................

Trades? We don't need to go there. They are awful.

FA's? Amare was a huge mistake IMO and I do not dispute that he was a great player in PHX.

I did not even like the Chandler / Billups amnesty move (as we have discussed often), the price was way too high (based on Amare). I know that I can be very wrong on this.

I would have liked to have waited out the season and not have made the Melo trade (if that was the actual asking price). However, I will give it 3 years to judge (though it will be hard to truly judge). I also wanted DWil instead but he has not impressed me the last couple of years.

skywalker was a bust, but gerald wilkins was a nice draft pick.. second round #47 overall and he had a long career, with averages of 13ppg, shot 45% averaged 3 dimes and boards... Most of all he was a good defender....

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

To build a team you need smarts and also some luck too. Alot of draft picks are hyped ip...kobe cpuldve been a bust. My point is no one is a sure tjing. With free agency..i feel its more of a sure thing but still not 100%. My issue is...if ur going to get a FA then do youre homework and dont get damaged goods. Ive always felt stats decline has nothing to do with melo...i think we overpaid for damaged goods..

I still think this team has the potential to make the ECF...i just dont like haters like hollinger making us out to be a lottery team.

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

you make some good points nalod...

Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for

nixluva wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:There's really no excuse for either Amare or Melo that they don't have enough talent. If Amare is really worth $100M, Melo as a top 10 player should be a worthy sidekick.

Ditto for Melo.

The plague known as MDA has been removed. Ballhog, can't go left, chemistry ruining Lin is gone.

If all the critics and Woody can't make those 2 play at least average D then all hope is lost for the next 3 years.

Of course STAT and Melo aren't worth $100 mil. That's really not the point. That's what it took for NY to land them so that's what it is. What matters most if for Woody to find a way to get both players going this year. They have to find a flow that works when Melo, STAT & Tyson are all on the floor. I think Woody and his staff will find a way for these guys to flow now that they have Felton and Kidd running the point. I think Hakeem will be able to get them on the same page mentally as well.

When STAT and Melo are focused they can defend and I fully expect them to be more focused this year. I think they realize that this is their time to really put it all together. This roster is built to defend and to win at a high level IMO.

MDA was not a plague, he simply didn't fit this team as it was constructed after the Melo trade. The team was mismatched at that point. Lin needs his own team and I think he'll be good in Houston. This team has a much more clear direction now with MDA and Lin gone. Now this team can play a style that fits Melo better and the hope is that Woody can get the rest of the team to excel playing a style that is a bit more post oriented. They can still spread the floor but now will focus on going inside 1st and that should work for this current roster. We've got bigs that should be able to score inside and draw fouls. That should open up shots on the perimeter when teams collapse. The passing has to be crisp.

I was being semi-sarcastic about MDA. His system did not fit Melo and he wasn't willing to coach any other way.

I'm very hopeful about this season. I think everyone on this board can agree that if everyone stays healthy there are NO excuses for Melo and Amare this season.

Can't blame MDA and all of his flaws as coach: alleged non-focus on defense, failure to communicate with players, failure to resurrect Darko and Anthony Randolph, etc.

Amare can't complain about having to play center and bang with true centers. (Kind of smokes signal that he might be dumb since he feasted off those guys on offense) Chandler/Camby/Krazy Kurt are all here to do what he hasn't shown the ability (or effort?) to do on D.

Both of them can't complain about not having a floor general. Kidd is old but he can still feed guys. Felton, according to many people who pooped all over Lin, is a starting caliber PG.

Melo has Woody's support and the ball will be in his hands. Amare can't say Woody doesn't emphasize D.

Full offseason. Players coming in early. Largely the same roster (Melo, Novak, Shump, Amare, Chandler, etc). The same coach.

No more excuses. If we get swept in the first round this season or fail to finish with at least 50 wins and people want to bash Melo/Amare I won't have anything left to defend them with.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:All this stuff really doesn't matter...I think we all have been fed this Melo is all bad for your team and for the game stuff that I don't react to it anymore...I just want the season to start so I can watch some games...I want to see Felton and Amare, that's the key to our season...

100% correct. If Felton/Amare play like they did under MDA this team can contend for a title. That gives you a frontcourt scoring giving you at least 20ppg at over 50% shooting. Melo would be the 2nd scorer (like Kobe is) but he will get more touches because if they swarm Amare he will pass out of it.

Thats the easy to see formula for success:
Feature Amare/Felton on offense
Limit Amare's minutes to 30mpg.
Rebound/defend.

I agree with that, but I really would like to see felton under woodson first....

I see this as our only real chance, but I wonder if you can feature this type of offense and keep carmelo happy.. I have my doubts..

I find this kind of ironic on two levels....

When Amar'e and Felton played PATTY CAKE that season you still had a large chunk of the fan base complaining Gallo and to a lesser degree Chandler were being iced out of the offense. You also had a contingency who saw that it wasn't until the kids came into the game the TEAM actually got into the game. Then Amar'e came and finished teams off every 1 out of 3gms thereabouts.

Well how is it going to be any different if Amar'e and Felton play PATTY CAKE again? I don't see how a player of Melo's stature will be satisfied with such a role. On the weakside watching? Felton and Amar'e played PNR almost every time down is this the style of offense Woodson runs? We haven't forgot Woodson told Amar'e to re-invent his game which implies he isn't going to be in heavy rotation PNR sets. Amar'e went down to Houston to go learn Post Play. So the dynamic between Felton and Amar'e becomes much less weighty, it doesn't take a point guard on the level of Grey Goose Duhon to dump balls down in the post fairly simplistic to say the least.

This offense is pretty much going to be a take turn ISO who ever is hot feed them.

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

hey, again I am a knick fan, first and foremost, I much prefer to have the team before the melo trade and wish melo could get all the money he wants.. elsewhere... that didn't happen..

I will still root for the knicks... could care less about melo and I look forward to see how this season progresses...

it is a meaningless argument to sit there and say no one wants to come play with gallo and chandler.. who cares.. amare came.. does that not count? why didn't guys flock to carmelo in Denver? again, your argument lacks backing...

but nevertheless, I know you are a knick fan... to much of a homer to be anything else, and in the end we all hope the knicks to win...

that is where I will leave it..

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

amare came.. does that not count?

Not really. He had 2 choices and 1 was for 40 million more. He is a good guy but he gets no credit for coming here. We did him a huge favor - he did not do us any favors. He took the money.

Now, if he too 5-6 million less a year as you have suggested in regards to other players, then he would get "credit" in my book.

Signing the only Max deal was a no brainer for him.

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

It's a good thing the Knicks organization didn't always work this way. We would have never had Ewing, Clyde, or anything that made the organization special. Our glory years would have been the like the current Hawks teams.

I don't disagree. I have no problem building through the draft and certainly don't mind making better trades. However, we are habitual failures at the draft (was hard to screw up on Ewing), and we suck at making trades.

Kenny Walker, Gerald Wilkens ..............................................................................................

Trades? We don't need to go there. They are awful.

FA's? Amare was a huge mistake IMO and I do not dispute that he was a great player in PHX.

I did not even like the Chandler / Billups amnesty move (as we have discussed often), the price was way too high (based on Amare). I know that I can be very wrong on this.

I would have liked to have waited out the season and not have made the Melo trade (if that was the actual asking price). However, I will give it 3 years to judge (though it will be hard to truly judge). I also wanted DWil instead but he has not impressed me the last couple of years.

skywalker was a bust, but gerald wilkins was a nice draft pick.. second round #47 overall and he had a long career, with averages of 13ppg, shot 45% averaged 3 dimes and boards... Most of all he was a good defender....

My bad.

For some reason I though G-Wilkens was drafted much higher. Other than Ewing, I can't think of any Lotto picks that turned into stars.

Since 79:

Cartwright (3rd pick)
Trent Tucker (6th pick)
Walker (5th pick)
Sweetney (9)
Frye (8)
Gallo (6)
J Hill (8)

AWFUL!

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

amare came.. does that not count?

Not really. He had 2 choices and 1 was for 40 million more. He is a good guy but he gets no credit for coming here. We did him a huge favor - he did not do us any favors. He took the money.

Now, if he too 5-6 million less a year as you have suggested in regards to other players, then he would get "credit" in my book.

Signing the only Max deal was a no brainer for him.

ok, well that helps my point.. no one is coming to play with gallo, chandler and carmelo for that matter, they are going where they can get the most money, most of the time..... why didn't nash come here to play with melo? why isn't kenyon running here to play with His BOY melo on the cheap? guys want to get paid.. all of this coming here to play with this guy or that guy is hogwash.. unless you are lebron, kobe, prime shaq... no one is running to play with non super studs...

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

amare came.. does that not count?

Not really. He had 2 choices and 1 was for 40 million more. He is a good guy but he gets no credit for coming here. We did him a huge favor - he did not do us any favors. He took the money.

Now, if he too 5-6 million less a year as you have suggested in regards to other players, then he would get "credit" in my book.

Signing the only Max deal was a no brainer for him.

ok, well that helps my point.. no one is coming to play with gallo, chandler and carmelo for that matter, they are going where they can get the most money, most of the time..... why didn't nash come here to play with melo? why isn't kenyon running here to play with His BOY melo on the cheap? guys want to get paid.. all of this coming here to play with this guy or that guy is hogwash.. unless you are lebron, kobe, prime shaq... no one is running to play with non super studs...

1st. Everyone wants to get paid
2nd. best chance of winning a ring (Miami)

I believe the Knicks are a top 6-8 destination right now no higher or lower.

I don't think players run to play with Kobe because everyone knows that he is the ultimate black hole which is why Shaq and PJax could not stand him. Nash wanted to be on the west coast and the Lakers still have a damn good team in place.

Nash probably did not want to come to the knicks because he did not want to decimate the team by giving up shumpert - hahaha - NOT

Gonna be interesting how Nash handles Kobe since Kobe never played with a top PG like this. Nash will hate him is my guess. Watching Kobe in the olympics was brutal! He made selfish Melo look like a beautiful angel.

I don't think players run to play with Melo or Stat. Melo shares the ball but not enough, Stat does not share the ball at all! The only way to get it from him is on a turnover. Now when Amare played with Nash who was perfect for him, all he needed to do was score - and he did.

Would you have traded Nash for Shumpert? Probably not is my guess. I would have.

Does Nash put us over the top?

If you think so, you make that trade with out a blink of the eye.

If Nash thinks he can put us over the top? He makes his way here.

Suns Im sure would have preffered he not play in the west. Just my guess.

I think Lin we still in the mix when Nash made his move.

If Kobe wants Nash then he is willing to scale it back. Kobe talks like he knows he needs to delegate more.

Lakes starters are strong but the bench will be thin.

Nalod wrote:Does Nash put us over the top?

If you think so, you make that trade with out a blink of the eye.

If Nash thinks he can put us over the top? He makes his way here.

Suns Im sure would have preffered he not play in the west. Just my guess.

I think Lin we still in the mix when Nash made his move.

If Kobe wants Nash then he is willing to scale it back. Kobe talks like he knows he needs to delegate more.

Lakes starters are strong but the bench will be thin.

Yes. Not sure if Nash would have done it.

Kobe can talk about it but he always needed to delegate more.

Lin and Nash would have been nice but awful defensively.

nash wants to win and he stands a better chance doing that with an aging bryant and a recovering howard... oh and gasol.

as bryant ages he will need to morph into more of a jumpshooter, although i don't think he is effective as a catch and shoot guy which could be a problem. nash is already a great jumpshooter. i see them taking turns as drivers and shooters, preserving each other. if bryant refuses to adapt his game then yes it will get ugly.

nash coming here would have been great, since he loves new york and i believe has a place here.

but how would nash solved the biggest problem of all: getting one undersized 4 masquerading as a 3 and a 3 masquerading as a 4 or 5 to be productive with and for one another? the melo stoudemire pairing is just plain impossible. and woodson does not have the ability to work that out.

additionally, how can the knicks have a defensive identity when their two most expensive players are not defensive-minded?

this team must have looked pretty whack for nash not to want to come here to his second home.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:All this stuff really doesn't matter...I think we all have been fed this Melo is all bad for your team and for the game stuff that I don't react to it anymore...I just want the season to start so I can watch some games...I want to see Felton and Amare, that's the key to our season...

Well I don't think we could possibly be closer to 180 degrees apart. I think we've been fed so much of this "Melo is a true superstar - the kind of player you need in order to build a championship team" stuff that I don't even pay attention to it anymore.

Well we can always compare the Melo pro articles versus the Melo negative articles the last six months to see what numbers actually bigger...My guess would be Melo negative..

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

i UNDERSTAND, but I do blame melo for trying to force the deal here, knowing what it would do to the knicks.. that is selfish. I remember players like Gary payton trying to nix deals because he said, the team he would be going to would be stripped of all of the talent that would help him win..

for me, if carmelo had said out loud to denver.. I am going to wait and just sign with the knicks in the offseason because I don't want to strip the talent of the team I am joining, then honestly, I would have given him a lot of credit.. although I don't like him as a player, I would have respected him..... and that was within his control, carmelo could have done that.. Instead he wanted to get paid, and I can't fault anyone for wanting that.... but we have choices and with those come consequences.... Honestly would 85 mil not have cut it for the anthony family budget? didn't lebron and wade take cuts to play together.. It can be done, and it also shows a huge commitment to wanting to win.. as they say.. money talks...

Its a nice dream but we all know the business side to it would make it really hard.

At the same time Dwight Howard could have been a free agent and gotten himself to Brooklyn basically with the N*ts having to renounce or trade BroPez. He messed up a the trade deadline. Reality was his back was likely bothersome and the prospect of going into free agency after a back operation is not a good move either.

Melo had off season knee surgery and might not have passed a physical for insurance purposes. He has a problem with an operation (a statistical possibilty) he throws away $100,000,000!!!

When Lebron went to Miami there was basically very little roster at that time.

Fan wise the Melo trade was pretty much a win-win. Denver was tired of him and they have a good team in the aftermath. Knick fans are tickled pink to have a top 5 scorer to root for.

Nice dream indeed: truly unselfish max players all over the planet thinking: "Geez, I'd just love to be on a team with Gallo and the Mayor and Moz...sounds like the wave of the future..."

Knick fans who were getting high on cap space moves and drooling over the OKC model were tickling themselves over the beauty of youth and endless potential for that all elusive next year when Lebron or Dwight or CP3 or ANY OTHER STARPHUCQUE other than the two we did sign would finally be available and these beleagured fans would then be able to raise their heads high at the sportsbars once again. Alas, it is to cry.

Instead, we have a scorer/finisher who smiles too much who's sooooo terribly hard to root for.

Gallo love. Yoot love. Melo hate. Lebron envy.

Really tough sheehit.

Move on.

Old and nasty worked for Boston, way back when.

Let the games begin!

amare came.. does that not count?

Not really. He had 2 choices and 1 was for 40 million more. He is a good guy but he gets no credit for coming here. We did him a huge favor - he did not do us any favors. He took the money.

Now, if he too 5-6 million less a year as you have suggested in regards to other players, then he would get "credit" in my book.

Signing the only Max deal was a no brainer for him.

ok, well that helps my point.. no one is coming to play with gallo, chandler and carmelo for that matter, they are going where they can get the most money, most of the time..... why didn't nash come here to play with melo? why isn't kenyon running here to play with His BOY melo on the cheap? guys want to get paid.. all of this coming here to play with this guy or that guy is hogwash.. unless you are lebron, kobe, prime shaq... no one is running to play with non super studs...

See this is what hate will get you: incoherence.

First you say: Melo was supposed to say

I can't strip the team of talent

Then you say:

no is coming to play with gallo, chandler

...(you including "carmelo for that matter" makes no sense)
and then you say that helps your point, which you now call hogwash.

As stated, Amare got paid. For $100 mil he would have signed to play with you and Nalod and two other N*yets cheerleaders.
[Sorry, Brooklyn is just so intoxicating of a subject, I just have to mention them in almost every post]

I will still root for the knicks... could care less about melo

What will you do as he drops 35 on someone and we win? Force your mind to think seriously about Gallo's latest injury?

It must be difficult to be you.

dk7th wrote:nash wants to win and he stands a better chance doing that with an aging bryant and a recovering howard... oh and gasol.

as bryant ages he will need to morph into more of a jumpshooter, although i don't think he is effective as a catch and shoot guy which could be a problem. nash is already a great jumpshooter. i see them taking turns as drivers and shooters, preserving each other. if bryant refuses to adapt his game then yes it will get ugly.

nash coming here would have been great, since he loves new york and i believe has a place here.

but how would nash solved the biggest problem of all: getting one undersized 4 masquerading as a 3 and a 3 masquerading as a 4 or 5 to be productive with and for one another? the melo stoudemire pairing is just plain impossible. and woodson does not have the ability to work that out.

additionally, how can the knicks have a defensive identity when their two most expensive players are not defensive-minded?

this team must have looked pretty whack for nash not to want to come here to his second home.

Carmelo played very solid D for Woody and Amare actually tried - thats a start.

Also, you are ignoring the main problem ... The Amare and Tyson pairing. I am not sure how but with some fans, this goes under the radar.

Kobe will not change and it will get ugly. However, perhaps the Lakers have too much talent to fail. How will the opposing teams get any rebounds? I am also not sure how Howard and Gasol will co-exist. If anyone can make it happen its Nash. Amare should give 50 million of his bloated contract to him.

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:nash wants to win and he stands a better chance doing that with an aging bryant and a recovering howard... oh and gasol.

as bryant ages he will need to morph into more of a jumpshooter, although i don't think he is effective as a catch and shoot guy which could be a problem. nash is already a great jumpshooter. i see them taking turns as drivers and shooters, preserving each other. if bryant refuses to adapt his game then yes it will get ugly.

nash coming here would have been great, since he loves new york and i believe has a place here.

but how would nash solved the biggest problem of all: getting one undersized 4 masquerading as a 3 and a 3 masquerading as a 4 or 5 to be productive with and for one another? the melo stoudemire pairing is just plain impossible. and woodson does not have the ability to work that out.

additionally, how can the knicks have a defensive identity when their two most expensive players are not defensive-minded?

this team must have looked pretty whack for nash not to want to come here to his second home.

Carmelo played very solid D for Woody and Amare actually tried - thats a start.

Also, you are ignoring the main problem ... The Amare and Tyson pairing. I am not sure how but with some fans, this goes under the radar.

Kobe will not change and it will get ugly. However, perhaps the Lakers have too much talent to fail. How will the opposing teams get any rebounds? I am also not sure how Howard and Gasol will co-exist. If anyone can make it happen its Nash. Amare should give 50 million of his bloated contract to him.

that is a red herring and does not speak to the heart of the problem.

stoudemire came here first as part of a grand plan to unite him with a pick and roll coach and pick and roll point guard.

carmelo forces his way here and that all gets thrown out the window.

i don't like that stat was shunted aside for someone who has accomplished less but is somehow regarded as a more valuable player.

i don't like how he became the whipping boy for this team.

and i don't like how he is the problem when talking about chemistry.

the more valuable player should be the one who works to make others around him better. if melo is the more valuable player of the two then he should STFU and do what he can to make stoudemire comfortable if not better. he should be deferring as much as possible to let stat get his and work on defense and rebounding, and getting to the line when he goes iso, not jacking up long 2s. he should be learning how to run the simplest play in basketball, the pick and roll.