Knicks · OT: HARDEN TRADED TO HOUSTON!! (page 2)

smackeddog wrote:I'm not a big fan of James Harden, and I'm not sure why the media started touting him as a max contract player. He choked in the finals and was a non entity in the Olympics- I haven't seen him play well in a while. Houston is going to have a lot of money tied up in 2 years time in Lin, Asik and Harden- is that anyway near enough? Can Harden carry a team? Morey was desperate just to trade some young player/picks for a max contract, just to give the illusion that his 'plan' has worked.

OKC makes the best of a bad situation- Kmart gives them some bench scoring this year (plus no defense and many injuries) while Jeremy Lamb develops, plus two picks is good for them if they want to keep payroll down.

Agreed. No way do I believe Harden is worth the max. OKC did the right thing getting good value for him and moving on.

Holy Shit.

I wake up to a major trade.

I don't blame Harden for not taking less money. He could have extended and STILL be traded. The fact they traded him means they had no intention of paying him this summer.

Martin is an expiring too and is no Harden.

Morey with a major STEAL.

How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

As long as Lin's knee is OK, I think this is great news for him. He has good PG skills but he's not an outstanding ball-handler and teams can trap him. It will help a lot to have another ball-handler/play-maker on the floor with him.

Interesting trade. I think HOU gave up a lot but got a player who could be a franchise player in return. Martin is as good as he is gonna get.

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

This is what came to my mind but I did not say it because I did not want to be accused of hating on Lin, again. Harden is just a better ball handler, imo. Perhaps Lin and him will basically switch pg duties.

I'm not 100% sold on Harden as a max contract player even though he had an outstanding season last year. I'd have given it some more time and decided whether to keep Harden or Westbrook. I think Martin will fit well in OKC though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

As long as Lin's knee is OK, I think this is great news for him. He has good PG skills but he's not an outstanding ball-handler and teams can trap him. It will help a lot to have another ball-handler/play-maker on the floor with him.

yeah this is a big win for the rockets. both these guys are better playmakers than westbrook and now they'll be playing alongside each other. who knows how much chemistry they will have together? it worked out for frazier and monroe pretty good.

gunsnewing wrote:

Mray20 wrote:Good trade for Houston but I think OKC took a step back, Martin is a great shooter but very one dimensional and injury prone, Harden could play the 1, 2 and even 3 and was a great shooter and could take you off the dribble as well as facilitate the offense , he was very versatile .

Harden/Westrook is redundant. Scared to think of the amount of open 3's Kmart will get playing with Durant & Westbrook. OKC can legitimately beat LA and Miami now

I think OCK made out big time with this deal. Harden's playmaking was valuable, but it's not needed as much now that Maynor is back.

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

Martin isn't that old. He's 29 and he's expiring. Lamb isn't as good as Harden, but he will be a good value at the price he'll be paid the next few years. I don't believe Harden is a max player.

OKC is one shrewd franchise. Hard len is no max contract player, but that core did get to the NBA Finals. Getting value for him from Houston is a win win. I don't know what the phuck Houston is thinking. If they truly intend to make Harden their centerpiece, they'll be sucking for the long term.

Harden was a safety net for when Westbrook got out of control, and allowed Westbrook to just play basketball without having to do to much of the PG duties. Harden allowed Westbrook and Durant to focus on scoring. Westbrook is now going to have to handle PG duties more and Durant is going to have to look to creat for others a little more.

Houston with its cap space and prospects at this point should look for another player that may be on his way out like a Josh Smith an see if ATL bites.

OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.

OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.

This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.

newyorknewyork wrote:Harden was a safety net for when Westbrook got out of control, and allowed Westbrook to just play basketball without having to do to much of the PG duties. Harden allowed Westbrook and Durant to focus on scoring. Westbrook is now going to have to handle PG duties more and Durant is going to have to look to creat for others a little more.

Houston with its cap space and prospects at this point should look for another player that may be on his way out like a Josh Smith an see if ATL bites.

Exactly. Morey seems to be learning from Pritchard's mistakes.

Pritchard didn't want to trade anyone he drafted. Even scrubs like Rudy Fernandez.

For a young team, Houston gave up a lot of pieces...OKC got to the Finals with Harden, how do u break that up??..Harden added a lot of balance to what OKC was doing...It's really interesting because you say, at what point do you stop stock piling young talent as OKC is still doing and fine tune, trying to add the final pieces to secure a Championship...OKC's GM just hung his arse out there when it wasn't necessary just yet...But all that said, he got lots of young talent and picks back...If you don't win after being so close with a young team, adding young talent doesn't matter...

holfresh wrote:For a young team, Houston gave up a lot of pieces...OKC got to the Finals with Harden, how do u break that up??..Harden added a lot of balance to what OKC was doing...It's really interesting because you say, at what point do you stop stock piling young talent as OKC is still doing and fine tune, trying to add the final pieces to secure a Championship...OKC's GM just hung his arse out there when it wasn't necessary just yet...But all that said, he got lots of young talent and picks back...If you don't win after being so close with a young team, adding young talent doesn't matter...

This was purely a financial decision for OKC. No way to spin this.

Harden is a baller. Eric Gordon got the maximum so Harden should get it as well. The crucial thing to consider is the fact that Harden didn't mind coming off the bench. Some guys aren't going to be cool coming off the bench.

Now with all that said Houston won this trade hands down.

most young players of their rookie contracts will get MAX contracts if they have upside and are all star potential.
The first extension is nothing at 15m per year, at that rate he is still much more productive than some of the players we have on the Knicks.
He had 1 poor series vs the best DEF in the league, but he had a phenomonial year.
He generally had to defend the BEST offensvive player vs his oppponents.
Lets not forget he had to defend Kobe, Ginobili, and Lebron after which is a HUGE mismatch. I don't remember if he had to defend Terry on the Mav series.
He got injured and also loss confidence in his shot.
OKC relied too much of physical abilities and it worked for 99% of teams in the league.
They surprisingly took a page out of The Spurs to beat them but went away from the good ball movement vs a better defense in Miami.

STATS are misleading, however it is usually the STATS that earns player's contracts.
However, it is NOT the guide for measuring talent.
Coming off rookie contracts, many players get max money for their potenial.
It is the next extension and the one after that that really kicks in at 20m as a max player.
Harden without a doubt is worth a max salary, at 15m per year, for his first extension.

Is Eric Gordon a max player?
Iggy?
Lopez?
Granger?
Rudy Gay?
Marc Gasol?

I think Granger had the potential but didn't forfill it as his deal expires next year.
Rudy Gay has a lot of talent/potential but he has a lot of room for growth if he is worthy of getting another max deal.
Eric Gordon, I think he was seriously overpaid but he can still imrpove and more imporantly get healthy.

Lopez besides of his injury, is not a #1 option in previous years on the Nets. But with the talent on The Nets, he can put up great numbers and be much more consistant than his previous years.

Iggy is worth the max extension after his after his rookie contract, I don't think he is worth the if he opts after this year.
His 3point shot has been improving very much, STATS are misleading.
With the weapons that Denver has, Iggy could be due for a big year.
He is the 2nd tier of talent, with an all round game.
Denver is one of the most stingy GM's currently in entire league.

Marc Gasol plays as the #3 option, while I think the offense should be run through him and Gay at SG as #1 and #2 options *where Gay dominated prior to his injury*
He is a solid post player with a good passing game, however, ZBO takes away this opporutnity.
Also a mobile/athletic PF like Josh Smith would compliment him much better defensively.

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

As long as Lin's knee is OK, I think this is great news for him. He has good PG skills but he's not an outstanding ball-handler and teams can trap him. It will help a lot to have another ball-handler/play-maker on the floor with him.

yeah this is a big win for the rockets. both these guys are better playmakers than westbrook and now they'll be playing alongside each other. who knows how much chemistry they will have together? it worked out for frazier and monroe pretty good.

So now we've got Harden and Lin pegged as two hall of famers. LOL. Both these guys are combo guards. Very hard to work together at the same time when they both covet the ball in their hands.

Harden is best utilized as a BIG combo guard, he didn't generate STATS as highly because he played behind Durant and Westbrook.
Having the talent to start on almost all teams, he no longer will have the chance to win the 6th man award again.
He can play SF vs most teams, especially 2nd units, but vs Lebron, it was just too big of a mismatch.
Westbrook is a horrible facilitator, when Harden is on the floor with them, he becomes the facilitator.
His ability to handle the ball, penetrate, finish vs multiple defenders, draw fouls, and it FT's are very impressive.

Harden compliments Lin very well, a reason why I wanted to trade for Harden while Lin was Knick.
Same for Iggy complimenting Gallo/Wilson Chandler, a player I really wanted to target prior to the Melo deal.
Funny how I get to see how they both work out, however, not for the Knicks.

Houston still has many draft picks, assets, flexability, and cap room to sign/trade another 1-2 pieces, just say Josh Smith.
Josh Smith *final year of contract* will be targetted by Phoenix, Houston, and teams looking to add a 2nd tier star.
They would be very dangerous on the fast break, uptempto systems, and is a solid defender/shot blocker to compliment Gortat/Osik.
Houston already has the shooters, role players, and decent depth, they would be on tract to continue to imrpove for many years to come and compete at the same time.
It is a pretty high price to trade for but I think it will improve Houston dramtically.
Cole Aldrich will have an opportunity to prove himself behind and battle for minutes/his next contract.
TD might get the boot with all the players on the roster, as 15 is the limit they can carry.
However, with 2 ball handlers and PG ability with Harden, TD can concentrate on shooting and not PG duties.
Livingston's deal isn't guaranteed though, but he would be competing for Machado, Dequan Cook & TD *both a similar players, think Cook has better D*
Who will get cut??

Lin
Harden
Chandler Parsons
PF Terrence Jones?
Osik

Livingston/Machado/Cook/TD
Carlos Delfino/Garry Forbes
Royce White
Marcus Morris/JaJuan Johnson/Greg Smith
Donatas Motiejunas/Cole Aldrich/Patrick Patterson
Marcus Morris/JaJuan Johnson/Greg Smith

I think Dragic and Lowery >>> Lin as players, but Lin bring's Houston more fans and generates more $$
I hate Morey but he has some nice pieces to build around and more importantly, they fit, and they are not done building yet.
Still with cap room/flexibility/assets/draft picks, to potentially sign and trade for more players.
The addition of Harden would give them a shot at competing this year for a low seed play off run, battling vs teams like Wolves/Suns/Dallas/Golden State

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

As long as Lin's knee is OK, I think this is great news for him. He has good PG skills but he's not an outstanding ball-handler and teams can trap him. It will help a lot to have another ball-handler/play-maker on the floor with him.

yeah this is a big win for the rockets. both these guys are better playmakers than westbrook and now they'll be playing alongside each other. who knows how much chemistry they will have together? it worked out for frazier and monroe pretty good.

So now we've got Harden and Lin pegged as two hall of famers. LOL. Both these guys are combo guards. Very hard to work together at the same time when they both covet the ball in their hands.

Harden will be "the man" on that team. Houston will pay him 5 years at the max.

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:How did Houston overpay?

Martin is old and is expiring.
Jeremy Lamb doesn't look as good as Harden.
Draft picks aren't guaranteed.

Harden is a top 10 SG. Houston isn't a free agency destination unless they overpay.

Sucks to be Lin. Harden is going to be handling that rock. Lol.

As long as Lin's knee is OK, I think this is great news for him. He has good PG skills but he's not an outstanding ball-handler and teams can trap him. It will help a lot to have another ball-handler/play-maker on the floor with him.

yeah this is a big win for the rockets. both these guys are better playmakers than westbrook and now they'll be playing alongside each other. who knows how much chemistry they will have together? it worked out for frazier and monroe pretty good.

So now we've got Harden and Lin pegged as two hall of famers. LOL. Both these guys are combo guards. Very hard to work together at the same time when they both covet the ball in their hands.

They are not midgets though, Dallas won with combo guards, playing a big role and were very efficient, it comes down to FIT/TEAM CHEMISTRY/COACHING.

JJ Barea
Terry
Kidd

played majority of the minutes at PG/SG