NBA · Rockets reach deal with Harden 5YRs/80 mil..WOW... (page 9)

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

Would you make the same argument when Knicks beat the Pistons when Melo scores 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds?

I already said the Knicks are going nowhere without Amare to help out with the scoring.

If Carmelo does put up a MVP type season the Knicks might make it out of the first round. That is a long shot though.

Houston is 2 players away from doing real damage in the west. They need a starting SF and a backup PG. Right now, Houston is a 50+ win team. The Knicks are also a 50+ win team but it all depends on PG play. If Knick PGs does not produce then Knicks don't make the playoffs.

And the Knicks are a healthy Amare away from contending.

What 2 difference makes are Houston going to realistically acquire that wouldnt require trading most of their young assets?

I really don't think so. Amare's production can be replaced. Proof was last year. He was out a lot for various reasons and once we had great PG play, the Knicks clicked and made the playoffs. Before that we weren't making the playoffs. The problem right now is that we have to wait until Dec 15th to trade for a young rebounding PF. The hope is that Camby/Rasheed/KT can hold down the fort before then. Felton/Kidd/Pablo needs to produce. I have high hopes for Pablo. You know what you will get from Felton and Kidd.

Houston has a lot of assets. They have a slew of young PFs. Terence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Royce White, Donatas Montijunas, Greg Smith. They can trade these guys for a starting SF like Wilson Chandler or even move them for Josh Smith and leave Parsons at the 3. They have real options and they are already set at 3 very important positions (C/SG/PG).

PF is the easiest position to replace. There are a lot of 6'9"+ guys that will rebound and defend. Houston has an unselfish and dynamic backcourt with a HUGE center that defends, rebounds and sets screens very well.

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

Would you make the same argument when Knicks beat the Pistons when Melo scores 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds?

I already said the Knicks are going nowhere without Amare to help out with the scoring.

If Carmelo does put up a MVP type season the Knicks might make it out of the first round. That is a long shot though.

Houston is 2 players away from doing real damage in the west. They need a starting SF and a backup PG. Right now, Houston is a 50+ win team. The Knicks are also a 50+ win team but it all depends on PG play. If Knick PGs does not produce then Knicks don't make the playoffs.

What? Houston and 50+ win team in the same sentence.

Come again...

What?

Harden was ballin and I still think Lin is a difference maker but yeah that front oourt is real shaky. I mean The Beard was killin it and they were barely winning against DETROIT. I dont see them even sniffing 40 unless Harden plays like that EVERY night. I've been saying since last year I honestly think JH is better than Westbrook, but even still I think Houston is too thin. However, I am definitely rooting for Houston in the west.

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

Would you make the same argument when Knicks beat the Pistons when Melo scores 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds?

I already said the Knicks are going nowhere without Amare to help out with the scoring.

If Carmelo does put up a MVP type season the Knicks might make it out of the first round. That is a long shot though.

Houston is 2 players away from doing real damage in the west. They need a starting SF and a backup PG. Right now, Houston is a 50+ win team. The Knicks are also a 50+ win team but it all depends on PG play. If Knick PGs does not produce then Knicks don't make the playoffs.

And the Knicks are a healthy Amare away from contending.

What 2 difference makes are Houston going to realistically acquire that wouldnt require trading most of their young assets?

With the near max salary cap space they will have , Houston could sign major player in the offseason, and since I don't believe they are making the playoffs, they could draft the other piece with their lottery pick. THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT IN HOUSTON.

gunsnewing wrote:I think he meant another player away from 50 wins

I actually think they are a 50+ win team. The only reason they do not get 50+ wins is because of McHale or injuries. Playing Morris over Terence Jones is a head scratcher. Same with TD playing over anybody.

EDIT: If Houston gets the 2 players I mentioned then I think they are going to the Finals.

I thought Houston was a 40+ win team before the Harden trade. Harden is good for 10 more wins.

tj23 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

Would you make the same argument when Knicks beat the Pistons when Melo scores 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds?

I already said the Knicks are going nowhere without Amare to help out with the scoring.

If Carmelo does put up a MVP type season the Knicks might make it out of the first round. That is a long shot though.

Houston is 2 players away from doing real damage in the west. They need a starting SF and a backup PG. Right now, Houston is a 50+ win team. The Knicks are also a 50+ win team but it all depends on PG play. If Knick PGs does not produce then Knicks don't make the playoffs.

What? Houston and 50+ win team in the same sentence.

Come again...

What?

Harden was ballin and I still think Lin is a difference maker but yeah that front oourt is real shaky. I mean The Beard was killin it and they were barely winning against DETROIT. I dont see them even sniffing 40 unless Harden plays like that EVERY night. I've been saying since last year I honestly think JH is better than Westbrook, but even still I think Houston is too thin. However, I am definitely rooting for Houston in the west.

Reasons why they did not blow out Detroit.
1. Away games are hard in the NBA (credit Nalod in another thread)
2. McHale was messing around with the rotation. T. Jones did not get any PT. Taking both Lin and Harden out at same time in the end of the 1st quarter. He keeps one of them in and that game would have been over in the 1st quarter.
3. TD was horrible.

No way man houston was a 30 win team before harden. You have them 10wins too high. With harden 40wins. They have too many inexperienced players rookies to win 50 thats crazy. Like you said add a proven sf and backup pg then 50 is possible

NYKBocker wrote:

tj23 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

Would you make the same argument when Knicks beat the Pistons when Melo scores 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds?

I already said the Knicks are going nowhere without Amare to help out with the scoring.

If Carmelo does put up a MVP type season the Knicks might make it out of the first round. That is a long shot though.

Houston is 2 players away from doing real damage in the west. They need a starting SF and a backup PG. Right now, Houston is a 50+ win team. The Knicks are also a 50+ win team but it all depends on PG play. If Knick PGs does not produce then Knicks don't make the playoffs.

What? Houston and 50+ win team in the same sentence.

Come again...

What?

Harden was ballin and I still think Lin is a difference maker but yeah that front oourt is real shaky. I mean The Beard was killin it and they were barely winning against DETROIT. I dont see them even sniffing 40 unless Harden plays like that EVERY night. I've been saying since last year I honestly think JH is better than Westbrook, but even still I think Houston is too thin. However, I am definitely rooting for Houston in the west.

Reasons why they did not blow out Detroit.
1. Away games are hard in the NBA (credit Nalod in another thread)
2. McHale was messing around with the rotation. T. Jones did not get any PT. Taking both Lin and Harden out at same time in the end of the 1st quarter. He keeps one of them in and that game would have been over in the 1st quarter.
3. TD was horrible.

Let's let them play a contender or two first.

I know you got a man crush on Lin, but now the entire Houston team lol.

Let's see where they are in a month or 2. Last I checked San Antonio, Dallas, LA,LA, OKC, Memphis, Denver, Utah are still around. Hard to get 50+ wins with those teams in the same conference.

gunsnewing wrote:No way man houston was a 30 win team before harden. You have them 10wins too high

I really liked their yoots. I thought Jeremy Lamb was fantastic. Kevin Martin was annoying but it is a contract year. Asik is great and I really liked Greg Smith and Terrence Jones. Not a fan of Parsons . I also thought Livingston should have made the team over TD.

Yes but rookies dont get u to 50 wins

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:No way man houston was a 30 win team before harden. You have them 10wins too high

I really liked their yoots. I thought Jeremy Lamb was fantastic. Kevin Martin was annoying but it is a contract year. Asik is great and I really liked Greg Smith and Terrence Jones. Not a fan of Parsons . I also thought Livingston should have made the team over TD.

I'd say Houston's team pre-trade was slightly better than the David Lee/Nate Robinson Knicks something like 36-41 wins. I think this trade is a no brainer for Houston though... this raises the potential of what Houston may become one day. But it's a lot to give up now. We'll see if Harden is good enough to be The Man every night

gunsnewing wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:Ha...Beating the Pistons and winning an NBA game now means a team has gelled....

No, but is a step in the right direction, especially considering that many predicted Houston to be the worst team in the NBA this year.

I'm actually watching the games because I'm trying to assess Lin as a player and obviously unsure how good he is based on the limited amount of games he has played..I'm becoming more and more comfortable with my assessment of him that I really will soon stop watching Houston play and only tune in on important games...Lin will be a good player but he has ways to go...He is a very good passer which will get him playing time...He has further work to do on his handle and gets in trouble dribbling in traffic...He won't bring the ball up during pressure times, Harden will do that and did that last night...He is a poor defender who gets steals from actually chasing his player after the player has gone by him...I'm am very comfortable saying we didn't miss the boat by not signing him...I wish him luck but I think the Knicks will be fine without him...When does STAT get back anyway...

I definetly agree that Lin has many flaws in his game, but that’s to be expected, the guy is getting pay 8 million a year, just like many young players starting for their teams.
Derozan, Holiday, Gallo, Dragic, W. Chandler, Asik, these guys are not finish product yet or max contract type talent, they all need to work on their game just like Lin, but since they are young they could get significantly better.

exactly never understood how you can look at a 23yr old as a finished product. The knicks, media and fans are silly

Here is why and don't use me as a barometer...When I got to college and my handle wasn't "good enough", I knew I was done as a ball player...Because of all the ball you play and handling the ball is elementary and mastered at a very young age...Lin is in the Pros, nothing he does off court will simulate the amount of on court time he handles the ball...He is what he is as far as handle and ball control...

But my overall point if signing Lin would cost us 60 mil in flexibility then it isn't worth it...I think we are all seeing it...I would have love to have Lin back coming off the bench until he grows as a player...But he ran for the money and thats all good...Knicks won't miss a beat by not signing him...

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:Ha...Beating the Pistons and winning an NBA game now means a team has gelled....

No, but is a step in the right direction, especially considering that many predicted Houston to be the worst team in the NBA this year.

I'm actually watching the games because I'm trying to assess Lin as a player and obviously unsure how good he is based on the limited amount of games he has played..I'm becoming more and more comfortable with my assessment of him that I really will soon stop watching Houston play and only tune in on important games...Lin will be a good player but he has ways to go...He is a very good passer which will get him playing time...He has further work to do on his handle and gets in trouble dribbling in traffic...He won't bring the ball up during pressure times, Harden will do that and did that last night...He is a poor defender who gets steals from actually chasing his player after the player has gone by him...I'm am very comfortable saying we didn't miss the boat by not signing him...I wish him luck but I think the Knicks will be fine without him...When does STAT get back anyway...

I definetly agree that Lin has many flaws in his game, but that’s to be expected, the guy is getting pay 8 million a year, just like many young players starting for their teams.
Derozan, Holiday, Gallo, Dragic, W. Chandler, Asik, these guys are not finish product yet or max contract type talent, they all need to work on their game just like Lin, but since they are young they could get significantly better.

exactly never understood how you can look at a 23yr old as a finished product. The knicks, media and fans are silly

Here is why and don't use me as a barometer...When I got to college and my handle wasn't "good enough", I knew I was done as a ball player...Because of all the ball you play and handling the ball is elementary and mastered at a very young age...Lin is in the Pros, nothing he does off court will simulate the amount of on court time he handles the ball...He is what he is as far as handle and ball control...

But my overall point if signing Lin would cost us 60 mil in flexibility then it isn't worth it...I think we are all seeing it...I would have love to have Lin back coming off the bench until he grows as a player...But he ran for the money and thats all good...Knicks won't miss a beat by not signing him...

Watch this....Signing Lin would not have affected anything. This is just Dolan not wanting Lin because his ego was hurt.

Knicks didnt resign Lin because they didnt think he was that good.

If Lin was good he would have been paid cap or not.

AnubisADL wrote:Knicks didnt resign Lin because they didnt think he was that good.

If Lin was good he would have been paid cap or not.

Perhaps Dolan needs his eyes examined.

AnubisADL wrote:Houston is going straight to the the lottery. Anyone believing otherwise is delusional.

If it takes Harden dropping 3o+ pts and 10+ asts to beat the lowly Pistons I see the L's racking up quickly.

I will be checking out Houston games for Harden since I like to watch tall guards with skills.

You can say Detroit is lowly but considering Lin and Harden had no training camp or even 2 practices together, it sure looked sweet. I wonder how they play together after a couple of months, never mind no training camp. And how many games did Melo put up great stats only for us to lose? That can't really be the base of an argument, especially considering the situation.

AnubisADL wrote:If Lin was as good as some of you believe, he would have beasted against Brandon Knight. Plain and simple.

Lin and Knight played each other to a stale mate. SMH.

I completely and utterly do not understand this type of attitude that you need to "beast" again a particular player if you a better than they are. This is not Rucker park.

Plain and simple: This is a team game and Houston won.

Harden looked great and looks to be worth every penny. Lin, looked average at best.

holfresh wrote:Here is why and don't use me as a barometer...When I got to college and my handle wasn't "good enough", I knew I was done as a ball player...Because of all the ball you play and handling the ball is elementary and mastered at a very young age...Lin is in the Pros, nothing he does off court will simulate the amount of on court time he handles the ball...He is what he is as far as handle and ball control...

But my overall point if signing Lin would cost us 60 mil in flexibility then it isn't worth it...I think we are all seeing it...I would have love to have Lin back coming off the bench until he grows as a player...But he ran for the money and thats all good...Knicks won't miss a beat by not signing him...

You knew you were done as a ball player cause your handle wasn't good enough? You can improve every facet of your game though, I don't follow you. Lin showed he can improve his handle and improve going left, and he did it in the pros. And, he isn't even 100% healthy from his knee surgery yet - yes a long time, but still the truth.

Signing Lin gave us flexibility, not cost us. Due to the new CBA it is very hard, if not impossible, for us to improve our team. If we had retained Lin we would at least have had him as an asset. Remember, many of us were worried about Stat's knees and health. To let Lin go was stupid as far as insurance with offensive production should Stat go down. I don't even think it is fair to call him Stat, we should call him "Crack".

The only thing Lin would have cost us was money out of Dolans pocket. But his marketability, jersey sales, etc. would have more than made up for that imo. Judging by all the fans coming to see him, that seems true. Again, Dolans decision appears to have been personal.

NUPE wrote:Harden looked great and looks to be worth every penny. Lin, looked average at best.

3 insane passes, 12 pts, 4stls and 8 assists all while considering he is not 100% back physically from his surgery, and that is average to you

earthmansurfer wrote:

NUPE wrote:Harden looked great and looks to be worth every penny. Lin, looked average at best.

3 insane passes, 12 pts, 4stls and 8 assists all while considering he is not 100% back physically from his surgery, and that is average to you

Add 4 boards and +23.