Knicks · It All Comes Back To Mike Woodson. The Anti-D'Antoni. (page 1)

Will Leitch brings tremendous perspective in this piece

http://nymag.com/news/sports/mike-woodson-2012-11/

... it wasn’t until 2004 that he made his coaching mark. Working as an assistant coach for the Detroit Pistons, Woodson received considerable credit for that team’s heralded blue-collar work ethic—no small feat considering the Pistons’ abundance of superstars, from Chauncey Billups to Rip Hamilton to Rasheed Wallace. Detroit won the NBA title that year...

Cliff Notes 1. His Detroit experience is more instructive than his tenure in Atlanta

Woodson immediately set about changing the team’s culture. In a semi-­famous speech documented by Slam magazine’s Lang Whitaker, Woodson spelled out his philosophy to the team clearly: “I have zero ego as a coach, none. If you think you see something that’s going to work better than what we’re trying to do, speak up! Say something to me! But what I’m telling you guys is that if you guys will just consistently do what we’re asking you to do on defense, we’ll win games. I don’t give a shit about the offense; you guys can score more than enough points to win games. The offense isn’t the problem. But you have to get stops on defense, and if you’ll listen to what we’re telling you, I promise you’ll get stops. The shit works, okay?

Cliff Note 2. Game respects game

Shumpert says another reason the Knicks enjoy playing for Woodson is that he keeps it simple. He sets basic, achievable team goals that are easy to understand. The main one is, notably, a defensive one: Hold the other team to 25 points or fewer a quarter, 100 or fewer a game. “He says if we do that, we’ll win,” Shumpert says. “At the end of every quarter, we can just look at the scoreboard and see if Coach is gonna be happy or not.”

Cliff Notes 3. Mike Woodson is straightforward and understated.

Sitting behind his desk, Woodson makes no Rex Ryan–like championship guarantees or even vague predictions. Instead, he says: “I feel real good about our chances and the makeup of our ball club. I’m anxious to see how far we can go.” It’s boilerplate, drama-free coachspeak. Finally.

Another thing is he'll actually draw up plays, rip into his players, and make adjustments when things aren't working.

Unlike stubborn non-adjustment ass D'Antoni. His playbook "Come on Let's Go" "Hustle, let's go" "Guy's let's go"

You're kidding me. First off, clearly his time as a head coach is much more instructive than as an assistant. Second, I've repeated this over and over. Our defense was good last year, we were the fifth best defense in the league. It was our offense that sucked and was why we lost games. If he's really ignoring the offensive side if the ball we're really fucked.

I sure hope he has changed his approach to the offense. Otherwise we are in for a long season, and could use am offensive assistant

Just Curious

VCoug wrote:You're kidding me. First off, clearly his time as a head coach is much more instructive than as an assistant. Second, I've repeated this over and over. Our defense was good last year, we were the fifth best defense in the league. It was our offense that sucked and was why we lost games. If he's really ignoring the offensive side if the ball we're really fucked.

VCoug - did you bother to read the article?

Nowhere did it mention Mike Woodson is ignoring the offense. Sheesh.

This team is much more suited to Woody than ANY of the teams that MDA had here. It's never been about just one way to win in this league. MDA didn't hate D the way people made it seem. He never had enough defensive talent until last year and you MUST have defensive talent to really excel defensively in the same way you need offensive talent to really excel at scoring. Woody's a good coach, but he's got to actually get to the ECF's before he's even reached the level MDA has gotten to in this league. I'm very confident that Woody can do it, but he's still got a lot to accomplish this year. Woody learned a lot from MDA on offense and to his credit he's not too proud to admit it and use some of that stuff.

The fact that the team doubled down on defensive talent is what makes this a good team for Woody to do his thing. We have more defensive players than we had last year and that makes a huge difference. It's why I think the Knicks can actually pull off beating the Heat in a series this year. We also have more vet leadership and PG's that know what they're doing. IF you have an offensive coach you get him what he needs and the same for a defensive coach. Give him some tools to really excel. Woody has that and zero excuses not to win big this year. This is his kind of team.

misterearl wrote:Just Curious

VCoug wrote:You're kidding me. First off, clearly his time as a head coach is much more instructive than as an assistant. Second, I've repeated this over and over. Our defense was good last year, we were the fifth best defense in the league. It was our offense that sucked and was why we lost games. If he's really ignoring the offensive side if the ball we're really fucked.

VCoug - did you bother to read the article?

Nowhere did it mention Mike Woodson is ignoring the offense. Sheesh.

I'm assuming that your post is quoting from the article. In it he says, " I don't give a shit (fuck?) about the offense." That's in your post just above cliff notes 2.

I'd like to get back to 'ignoring the offense' thing... I actually think that that can be a good thing in today's NBA. Do you think they 'coach' offense in LA? I think Kobe and Nash have that figured out. Similarly, I think Melo and Amar'e know where they want the damn ball too. I would rather the coach hold players accountable on the defense and effort categories myself. I mean Spoelestra has that rule with the Heat where if they get a stop on defense then the head coach can't call the next play on offense. This is a star-driven league... the days of the Hickory High way of winning basketball are long gone

Assumption Is The Mother Of All Poor Dialogue

"VCoug" - I'm assuming that your post is quoting from the article. In it he says, " I don't give a shit (fuck?) about the offense." That's in your post just above cliff notes 2.

VCoug - if you read the piece, you would learn that the offense is not being neglected. For Woodson, defense is a priority that does not mean that he ignores other aspects, unless one wants to assume that an NBA coach would simply roll out the ball racks and go have a beer.

You would have been educated in the first two paragraphs:

As a rule, New York Knicks practices in the past few years have been chaotic. In their double-wide gym in a nondescript building in suburban Greenburgh, one rarely sees all the Knicks together on the same floor at once. One day last year, I watched Andy Rautins shooting three-pointers by himself in one corner, Josh Harrellson and Amar’e Stoudemire posting each other up at the opposite end of the gym, Carmelo Anthony goofing off catty-corner from that group, and Toney Douglas lying down along one baseline, stretching and looking half-asleep. It was like watching a gymnastics meet: You could never focus on one thing or tell what was going on.

It is not like this anymore. At a practice last week, the Knicks clicked with military precision. Other than the recently signed Rasheed Wallace—who was still working his way into shape and therefore mostly running “sprints” on his own—the Knicks were as one, on the same court, participating in the same drills and the same scrimmages at the same time. Carmelo was running a pick-and-roll play, spinning off Chris Copeland as Raymond Felton tried to hit him with the pass; Tyson Chandler ran over to try to block his path to the basket; Steve Novak ran under the basket and then back out to sneak open for the corner three. The rest of the team stood around them, watching, commiserating, laughing … but definitely not missing anything. No one seemed anywhere close to asleep.

Thee'Anti-toni???

All that defense 1st stuff is useless if you have a roster that lacks the needed size and perimeter defenders. Woody is benefiting from a GM that is giving him what he needs. If you give Woody a team that is devoid of defenders and he didn't have any of MDA's offensive plays then you have the guy who was unemployed before landing with the Knicks. No one was singing Woody's praises before he got a chance to work with a team that had Tyson, Jared & Shump. You have to have good defenders in the paint and on the perimeter. Now Woody has even more defensive players, so i'm hopeful that this team will be one of the dominant defensive teams in the league. I can't wait to get Shump back to enhance the D even more. STAT being out only effects scoring, since he's not an effective defender. Just think STAT was the last line of defense on most of MDA's teams. How good can you be defensively if that's the case? Just switch out Tyson for STAT last year and how good do you think the D would be? That's what MDA had for much of his career.

I have zero ego as a coach, none. If you think you see something that’s going to work better than what we’re trying to do, speak up!

Not encouraging... you will not hear this from best NBA coaches. But from other hand Dolan has enough ego for whole organization.
So this is union made in heaven.

The Zen master thinks "to not have an ego is to not be graceful".....

To not be graceful is to be clumsy.

I love the "Cisk-Boom-Bah" stuff on puffing up our chests to love our coach.

How about we just let the play speak for itself. Woody is good coach. Better than MDA?

Is that really important now? He is the coach, he gets our support and we wish him the greatest success of any coach before him!

Woody is a good fit for these guys. "18-6" is a tall order to live up to.

So basically he is great coach because of what he did in Detrot, but Larry's work there is not considered?

IM confused?

Sis Boom Bah or Melo Boom Ay-yea?

Nalod wrote: To not be graceful is to be clumsy.

Pablo is both graceful and conserves energy. Fiat 500 or Cooper Mini?

Nalod wrote: I love the "Cisk-Boom-Bah" stuff on puffing up our chests to love our coach.

No love. Just the facts ma'am.

Nalod wrote:How about we just let the play speak for itself. Woody is good coach. Better than MDA?

Time will tell if the timing is right or he game passed D'Antoni faster that Nate Archibald in the open court. Woody has much better hair.

Nalod wrote:Woody is a good fit for these guys. "18-6" is a tall order to live up to.

Factored over an entire season, 55-27 would be outrageous. 48-34 is more like it.

Nalod wrote:So basically he is great coach because of what he did in Detroit, but Larry's work there is not considered?

I feels as if Larry Brown was never in New York. Woodson is much less a great coach than a potentially great fit for these Knicks at this moment.

48-34. Book it.

This Knicks team seems much more in sync than any we've seen in a while. To me their identity is CLEAR and they aren't trying to be something they aren't. With some of those MDA teams it was a clear mismatch and players were not capable of doing what the Coach was asking. Now with this roster Woody has players up and down the roster that are fully capable of doing the things he's coaching. In fact many of these players LOVE playing the way he wants to play. That's a very important thing for any team. This team will be greater than the sum of its parts. It's about how they all mesh together and work together as a unit.

Woody will keep them intense on defense where they need to be and the talent we have is slanted towards defense anyway so that's how this team is gonna win. I think they'll win 50 games cuz I think there won't be a lot of team that will grind harder on D than the Knicks. I also think we've got a team full of mentally tough players. Very reminiscent of 90's Knicks teams.

arkrud wrote:

I have zero ego as a coach, none. If you think you see something that’s going to work better than what we’re trying to do, speak up!

Not encouraging... you will not hear this from best NBA coaches. But from other hand Dolan has enough ego for whole organization.
So this is union made in heaven.

I think you need to remember that when Woodson took over and the Knicks went 18-6 the big thing guys were saying is that he holds them accountable. Being open minded or considering suggestions on how things can be improved is refreshing in my opinion. The previous guy is gone because he wasn't open minded, and extremely rigid in his philosophy and approach.

SupremeCommander wrote:I'd like to get back to 'ignoring the offense' thing... I actually think that that can be a good thing in today's NBA. Do you think they 'coach' offense in LA? I think Kobe and Nash have that figured out. Similarly, I think Melo and Amar'e know where they want the damn ball too. I would rather the coach hold players accountable on the defense and effort categories myself. I mean Spoelestra has that rule with the Heat where if they get a stop on defense then the head coach can't call the next play on offense. This is a star-driven league... the days of the Hickory High way of winning basketball are long gone

I agree with this perspective. Basketball teams don't run complex offenses anymore. Everything today is either ISO or pick and roll, then let the ball handler do the rest.

misterearl wrote:Assumption Is The Mother Of All Poor Dialogue

"VCoug" - I'm assuming that your post is quoting from the article. In it he says, " I don't give a shit (fuck?) about the offense." That's in your post just above cliff notes 2.

VCoug - if you read the piece, you would learn that the offense is not being neglected. For Woodson, defense is a priority that does not mean that he ignores other aspects, unless one wants to assume that an NBA coach would simply roll out the ball racks and go have a beer.

You would have been educated in the first two paragraphs:

As a rule, New York Knicks practices in the past few years have been chaotic. In their double-wide gym in a nondescript building in suburban Greenburgh, one rarely sees all the Knicks together on the same floor at once. One day last year, I watched Andy Rautins shooting three-pointers by himself in one corner, Josh Harrellson and Amar’e Stoudemire posting each other up at the opposite end of the gym, Carmelo Anthony goofing off catty-corner from that group, and Toney Douglas lying down along one baseline, stretching and looking half-asleep. It was like watching a gymnastics meet: You could never focus on one thing or tell what was going on.

It is not like this anymore. At a practice last week, the Knicks clicked with military precision. Other than the recently signed Rasheed Wallace—who was still working his way into shape and therefore mostly running “sprints” on his own—the Knicks were as one, on the same court, participating in the same drills and the same scrimmages at the same time. Carmelo was running a pick-and-roll play, spinning off Chris Copeland as Raymond Felton tried to hit him with the pass; Tyson Chandler ran over to try to block his path to the basket; Steve Novak ran under the basket and then back out to sneak open for the corner three. The rest of the team stood around them, watching, commiserating, laughing … but definitely not missing anything. No one seemed anywhere close to asleep.

Maybe you should refrain from making inaccurate cliff notes in the future...

Cliff Notes are for entertainment purposes only

tj23 wrote:Maybe you should refrain from making inaccurate cliff notes in the future...

tj23 - cliff notes are never a good substitute for reading the article

I really didn't like D'Antoni- I remember Jalen Rose's piece on how D'Antoni prepared the team for the playoffs (granted he may be exaggerating as he had a grudge against him):

I played for the Phoenix Suns. 2007. My last season. As were playing against the San Antonio Spurs. And I remember us coming to our first practice before Game 1. And we brought it in. And we were excited about our playoffs getting started. And Coach D'Antoni put in some film. It was Steve behind the back. Amare slam dunk. Shawn Marion with the block. Raja Bell with the charge. It was a highlight film of our team. They have showed me making a shot on there, and I was barely even playing.

So after that he as like all right, we're going to run and down, go through our set plays and whatnot, and we're going to get out of here.

And I looked at Kurt Thomas. I hit him with an elbow. I'm like hold on. I gotta say something.

So I did my Arnold Horshack from "Welcome Back, Kotter."

I'm like "ooh, ooh, ooh, hey coach. I gotta ask a question. Are we going to talk about how we're going to defend Tim Duncan on the post? Are we going to talk about Manu Ginobili in pick and roll? Keeping Tony Parker out of the paint?"

He looked at me in front of the entire team and coaching staff and said: "We're not worried about what they do. If we play to the best of our abilities, and do what we're supposed to do, there is no way they can beat us. We don't mind if Tim goes off. If Tim goes off, that means everybody else is quiet."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/...

Not saying Woodson is a god, but I prefer his philosophy and approach a lot more.

The Bobby Knight Influence

Woodson says his relationship with Anthony is “strong,” but resists the notion that he’s somehow a toady of management or of his star. This is where the Bobby Knight comes in. “There are a lot of things that come into play in coaching,” Woodson says. “It’s not just X’s and O’s. My responsibility is making sure these guys do what’s asked of them. Any guy in that locker room, Carmelo included, I’m going to show them the same love that I’m going to show anybody. In doing that, they got to understand that I’m the coach. They have to be open-minded to me pushing them. Because that’s what I do.”

Man To Man

One reason the Knicks players seem to like Woodson: He used to be one of them. To a man, almost every Knick brings up the fact that Woodson played for more than a decade in the league, that he understands what they’re going through. Shumpert, who may be closer to Woodson than anyone on the team, even bought a Woodson Houston Rockets jersey off eBay and tweeted a picture of himself wearing a Woodson Kansas City Kings jersey. Shumpert speaks of Woodson like he’s been waiting for him to be his coach for a long time. “Even before he was our head coach, we were real close,” Shumpert says. “He took to me right off, because he treated me like a man. I don’t like it when people treat me young. Ever since I was in the eighth grade, I’ve had an African-American head coach, but I’ve never had one who played in the league before. Coach Woodson knows what it takes to compete on this level. You just trust a man like that.”

- Wlll Leitch

Anyone who claims that Mike D'Antoni left any fingerprints on this team is delusional and misinformed. Mike Woodson has taken a roster that was composed of 13 new players just a month ago, and molded something that has New York buzzing with anticipation. Molded it in the disciplined image of Bobby Knight and Larry Brown, without the drama. How cool is that?

As Jason Kidd understands, Beating Miami by 20 was just a first step. Beat Philly a second time in two days and a strong message has been delivered.

Looking down the road, the smooth integration of Amare and Shump in January will be one of the great subplots in this highly entertaining reality show. But that can wait. Amare and Shump can both rehab without rushing. Rasheed is showing signs of being able to contribute ten effective minutes and Marcus Camby is almost ready to take a test drive. As it stands, the confident looks on the faces of James White and Chris Copeland hint they are also ready to rumble.

Stay tuned.