LOL! We're now 60-52 with Melo and 9-5 without him. I'm not saying he actually hurts the team though. The way this roster is structured, we are dependent on him.
Bonn1997 wrote:LOL! We're now 60-52 with Melo and 9-5 without him. I'm not saying he actually hurts the team though. The way this roster is structured, we are dependent on him.
Maybe my math is way off but I have the Knicks at 64-49 since Melo has joined the team. That doesn't account for games he has missed because of injury and it is only regular season games. However, when you consider that he was 30-46 under D'Antoni with a healthy Amare for 24 games in 2010-11 and tyson and a slightly hobbled amare in 2011-12 it says a lot about the coach. I wonder what the Knicks record when Melo plays and Woodson coaches is.
14-14 to finish the first season. Then 0-4 in the playoffs.
Then 29-26 in the regular season and 1-4 in the playoffs.
And 13-4 this year.
I think it's 57-52 with him actually.
56-44 in the regular season in games he's played, 1-8 in the playoffs, 9-5 in games he's missed.
Bonn1997 wrote:LOL! We're now 60-52 with Melo and 9-5 without him. I'm not saying he actually hurts the team though. The way this roster is structured, we are dependent on him.
No they are structured around Melo. I thought it was Tyson's team?
How about you "reset the Melo clock" to when Woodson took over?
I'd love to see those stats :)
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:LOL! We're now 60-52 with Melo and 9-5 without him. I'm not saying he actually hurts the team though. The way this roster is structured, we are dependent on him.
No they are structured around Melo. I thought it was Tyson's team?
Yes, we are even more dependent on Tyson. Without Melo, we'd have to get another scorer but that would be easier to do than to get a DPOY with historic offensive efficiency. Only one player in the league fits the latter description.
OGkush121 wrote:How about you "reset the Melo clock" to when Woodson took over?
I'd love to see those stats :)
Are you sure? I think you mean, "how about you reset the clock to when Woodson took over, also throw out the five post-season games, and then post the stats?" Why not just make it easier and say, "How about you only count the 58 games he's played in that the Knicks have won?"?
newyorknewyork wrote:The argument against Carmelo was that he would always lose in the playoffs because of the way he plays basketball vs that he just needed a stronger team around him then what he has had. Haters argued that he had enough talent in the past and that he would always fail leading to first rd exits every yr with the Knicks because he would bring the team down. And that he would never improve as a player. Homers argued that he didn't have enough talent to achieve the type of goals that the haters were expecting, but if given that support he would be able to achieve those goals. Haters were oportunistic after the last 2 playoff defeats in which both teams were depleted by injury while facing a superior team. It didn't matter that the teams were depleted because Melo brings the team down anyway and wouldn't find success reguardless. Now that the roster seems like its holding a ton of talent and its very possible the Knicks end up with a top seed with a good amount of home cooking in the playoffs and a great chance at going to the ECF. Now all of a sudden haters want to start talking about the supporting cast and how important it is. Now have become opportunistic again after this recent win with Raymond Felton playing out of his mind.
When the trade was made it was argued that its easier to find role players then it was to land a star player. But no the Knicks set the franchise back 10yrs will lose in the first rd as long as Melo is on the team while Denver will go on to form a Dynasty. Now 2-3yrs later Knicks have one of the deepest rosters in the nba along with Melo while Denver is still looking for a Melo calibre player to bring them to the next level.
But yea its all been about jock riders and homers trying to make Melo into a hero, superstar, greatest player ever.
Great Post....
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:LOL! We're now 60-52 with Melo and 9-5 without him. I'm not saying he actually hurts the team though. The way this roster is structured, we are dependent on him.
No they are structured around Melo. I thought it was Tyson's team?
Yes, we are even more dependent on Tyson. Without Melo, we'd have to get another scorer but that would be easier to do than to get a DPOY with historic offensive efficiency. Only one player in the league fits the latter description.
Wellm actually they are both playing at historic levels. It was posted on another site that only 5 other players has posted a usage of 34% and shot over a .57 TS.
Usage in itself is not of much value, though. It's kind of like leading the league in minutes played is not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's obvious Melo's TS% will go down. No one thinks Melo will continue to shoot 44% from 3 pt range. Hopefully it doesn't drop much. If Melo continues this TS% and this usage level, then that's very good. If he continues this usage level and returns to his career TS%, then that's much less of a positive, though.
I'm not sure that Tyson will maintain this level of efficiency either but he's at least been doing it for a much larger sample of games (all of last year too) than Melo has.
Bonn1997 wrote:Usage in itself is not of much value, though. It's kind of like leading the league in minutes played is not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's obvious Melo's TS% will go down. No one thinks Melo will continue to shoot 44% from 3 pt range. Hopefully it doesn't drop much. If Melo continues this TS% and this usage level, then that's very good. If he continues this usage level and returns to his career TS%, then that's much less of a positive, though.
I'm not sure that Tyson will maintain this level of efficiency either but he's at least been doing it for a much larger sample of games (all of last year too) than Melo has.
if his TS% returns to its career average of 54-55% it guarantees that he is not helping his team and is closer to a zero-sum player.
fun fact: if you take the usage and assist rates and create a ratio, steve nash is at 1:3... the quintessential team player.
melo's ratio this season?
3:1
Bonn1997 wrote:Usage in itself is not of much value, though. It's kind of like leading the league in minutes played is not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's obvious Melo's TS% will go down. No one thinks Melo will continue to shoot 44% from 3 pt range. Hopefully it doesn't drop much. If Melo continues this TS% and this usage level, then that's very good. If he continues this usage level and returns to his career TS%, then that's much less of a positive, though.
I'm not sure that Tyson will maintain this level of efficiency either but he's at least been doing it for a much larger sample of games (all of last year too) than Melo has.
MAybe he will shoot less but will his at the rim shooting % return to normal to counteract his lower 3 pt%? Alos, you are so quick to say it will go down but I bet he is shooting in his hot zones and more of his threes this year are off assist which is where he has usually shot at a higher rate.
Hey I hope Tyson keeps it up but I do not think he is some top offensive threat. I am sure there are big men that shoot a high percent at the rim but have a lower TS because they also shoot jump shots at a lesser clip. What would have happen last night if Chandler was shooting a15 foot jumper at 45-47% when Noah sag off to take away the lob? His TS might be lower but his contribution to the team would be higher.
TS% is just one stat. Win shares and wins produced are more important. If you're great near the rim and above average by the perimeter, your TS% will go down relative to someone who stays by the rim but the more important stats (WP and WS) will go up.
Bonn1997 wrote:TS% is just one stat. Win shares and wins produced are more important. If you're great near the rim and above average by the perimeter, your TS% will go down relative to someone who stays by the rim but the more important stats (WP and WS) will go up.
But he doesn't do it or can't do it. I think he might be able too given his Ft shooting and the few shots he took early in the season but he doesn't do it. He rarely even actively tries to post up when he has a mismatch. I think he is doing great and is playing at a high level right now. The knicks need him, Amar'e and Melo to compliment each other together.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TS% is just one stat. Win shares and wins produced are more important. If you're great near the rim and above average by the perimeter, your TS% will go down relative to someone who stays by the rim but the more important stats (WP and WS) will go up.
But he doesn't do it or can't do it. I think he might be able too given his Ft shooting and the few shots he took early in the season but he doesn't do it. He rarely even actively tries to post up when he has a mismatch. I think he is doing great and is playing at a high level right now. The knicks need him, Amar'e and Melo to compliment each other together.
It would be better if he could shoot jump shots effectively in game. I value knows his limitations and doesn't take low percentage shots though.
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TS% is just one stat. Win shares and wins produced are more important. If you're great near the rim and above average by the perimeter, your TS% will go down relative to someone who stays by the rim but the more important stats (WP and WS) will go up.
But he doesn't do it or can't do it. I think he might be able too given his Ft shooting and the few shots he took early in the season but he doesn't do it. He rarely even actively tries to post up when he has a mismatch. I think he is doing great and is playing at a high level right now. The knicks need him, Amar'e and Melo to compliment each other together.
It would be better if he could shoot jump shots effectively in game. I value knows his limitations and doesn't take low percentage shots though.
On offense I look at Chandler like I look at Novak they are both specialist. They are very good at what they do but need help to create their offense. The difference is Tyson's D. I would like him to challenge players at the rim more but he has been stepping up his game.
The NBA does not use TS%.
Therefore, it does not affect any individual award.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:The NBA does not use TS%.Therefore, it does not affect any individual award.
Well the NBA has better analysis than just the box score.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:The NBA does not use TS%.Therefore, it does not affect any individual award.
Who is "the NBA"?
When the Knicks lose it is Melo's fault.
When the Knicks win it because of his teammates.
Makes perfect sense now.
