Knicks · Carmelo Anthony's MVP Season and the New York Knicks (page 67)

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=W...
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

BTW, just to quantify that, when Melo is being guarded and has to create a shot, he hits it about 31% of the time.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/20...

That article is rather old, alot has changed since then.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=W...
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

BTW, just to quantify that, when Melo is being guarded and has to create a shot, he hits it about 31% of the time.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/20...

That article is rather old, alot has changed since then.

The only thing that's changed for the better is his 3 point percentage. Everything else is either the same or worse.

Not the same and certainly not worse.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=W...
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

BTW, just to quantify that, when Melo is being guarded and has to create a shot, he hits it about 31% of the time.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/20...

That article is rather old, alot has changed since then.

The only thing that's changed for the better is his 3 point percentage. Everything else is either the same or worse.

Nah, the only that changed is this is his statistically best season he's ever had.

Not the same and certainly not worse.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=W...
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

BTW, just to quantify that, when Melo is being guarded and has to create a shot, he hits it about 31% of the time.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/20...

That article is rather old, alot has changed since then.

The only thing that's changed for the better is his 3 point percentage. Everything else is either the same or worse.

Nah, the only that changed is this is his statistically best season he's ever had.

Not the same and certainly not worse.

Can you be more specific? Otherwise, you are not contradicting anything I said

Saying he's the same or worse definitely is not accurate.

You could say the rbs and blks are much worse now that he's playing PF but I'll charitably just put "same"

Bonn1997 wrote:Just to be specific:
3 point %: career high
Assists: career low
2 point %: same as rest of career
Rebounds: same
TO: same
Stls: same
Blks: same
FTA: same
FT%: same
PF: same

You could say the rbs and blks are much worse now that he's playing PF but I'll charitably just put "same"

The guys is definitely better now than what his career has shown.

Bonn1997 wrote:Just to be specific:
3 point %: career high
Assists: career low
2 point %: same as rest of career
Rebounds: same
TO: same
Stls: same
Blks: same
FTA: same
FT%: same
PF: same

You could say the rbs and blks are much worse now that he's playing PF but I'll charitably just put "same"

exactly-- it could be a fool's gold season since he can't sustain the 3-point percentage. but lets be honest... if he shoots above 38% from 3 for the season you can't complain. just wish he reined in the bad shots and worked the ball more.

he's improved in pretty much every offensive category, definitely in his PER

gunsnewing wrote:Since this MVP race is a weekly Nov/Dec thing. Here is my current top 5:
1-Durant
2-Lebron
3-Paul
4-Melo
5-Lee

Similar to Sheridan's rankings. He has Melo at 3 and Paul at 4. One game into week 9 not sure if I would disagree with his rankings but how great is it to have the guy in the mix with LBJ, Durant and Paul.

gunsnewing wrote:I went with Paul because of record. Those 4 guys all have better records than the Knicks

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I went with Paul because of record. Those 4 guys all have better records than the Knicks

Getting Barnes for nothing was huge. Odom seems to be having a rebirth. I don't watch western conference teams that much but the Clips and the Grizzlies are really good and I think they could go all the way.

I don't think the grizzlies are that good anymore. They've been figured out.

Clippers and OKC.

babyKnicks wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I went with Paul because of record. Those 4 guys all have better records than the Knicks

Getting Barnes for nothing was huge. Odom seems to be having a rebirth. I don't watch western conference teams that much but the Clips and the Grizzlies are really good and I think they could go all the way.

I don't think the grizzlies are that good anymore. They've been figured out.
Clippers and OKC.

The Grizzlies are good, but they are missing some elements on that team, if I was them, I would definitely pursue someone like Kyle Korver in the offseason, their frontcourt clearly needs more room to operate.

Bonn1997 wrote:It's between Durant, Paul, and Lebron

No it's not. Melo's got just as much if not a bigger chance than Paul (I'd say more).

DAT PAPER CLIP

DAT DEL NEGRO

3G4G wrote:

DAT PAPER CLIP

DAT DEL NEGRO

Matt Barnes for MVP!