CashMoney wrote:Regular season MVP would be nice for Melo to win but I'd be much more happy if Melo wins Finals MVP. 
no reason why he couldn't win both :D I mean it's not like it's one or the other
OGkush121 wrote:CashMoney wrote:Regular season MVP would be nice for Melo to win but I'd be much more happy if Melo wins Finals MVP.
no reason why he couldn't win both :D I mean it's not like it's one or the other
If the Knicks win there is no way he isn't getting the finalz mvp.
CrushAlot wrote:OGkush121 wrote:CashMoney wrote:Regular season MVP would be nice for Melo to win but I'd be much more happy if Melo wins Finals MVP.
no reason why he couldn't win both :D I mean it's not like it's one or the other
If the Knicks win there is no way he isn't getting the finalz mvp.
I know that, I'm just saying a regular season MVP trophy would feel good as well :D
I don't think at Kobe's age that he can keep the scoring up. The season is just going to take a toll on him. Perhaps Lebron does increase his scoring.
Not that scoring is everything but if Melo keeps up his great play and gets the scoring title as well (and we win the championship), Melo will have the MVP.
earthmansurfer wrote:I don't think at Kobe's age that he can keep the scoring up. The season is just going to take a toll on him. Perhaps Lebron does increase his scoring.
Not that scoring is everything but if Melo keeps up his great play and gets the scoring title as well (and we win the championship), Melo will have the MVP.
Yeah, but it's Kobe. He knows no age.
OGkush121 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I don't think at Kobe's age that he can keep the scoring up. The season is just going to take a toll on him. Perhaps Lebron does increase his scoring.
Not that scoring is everything but if Melo keeps up his great play and gets the scoring title as well (and we win the championship), Melo will have the MVP.
Yeah, but it's Kobe. He knows no age.
The treatment he had on his knee is pretty cutting edge. Jeffries had it also. I am sure that is helping.
CrushAlot wrote:OGkush121 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I don't think at Kobe's age that he can keep the scoring up. The season is just going to take a toll on him. Perhaps Lebron does increase his scoring.
Not that scoring is everything but if Melo keeps up his great play and gets the scoring title as well (and we win the championship), Melo will have the MVP.
Yeah, but it's Kobe. He knows no age.
The treatment he had on his knee is pretty cutting edge. Jeffries had it also. I am sure that is helping.
Papabear Says
Maybe Amare should go get it done on his Knees.
When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
No he's not! He is hitting some wild and low pct shots and I have seen numerous games where he shot his team out of the games. I have watched almost every laker game this year and he is just in compilation mode.
That is why James Worthy said that was a disgusting loss. I can't believe D'antoni is letting kobe take such ridiculous shots"
I am glad that many smart posters here notice this.
Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Papabear wrote:CrushAlot wrote:OGkush121 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I don't think at Kobe's age that he can keep the scoring up. The season is just going to take a toll on him. Perhaps Lebron does increase his scoring.
Not that scoring is everything but if Melo keeps up his great play and gets the scoring title as well (and we win the championship), Melo will have the MVP.
Yeah, but it's Kobe. He knows no age.
The treatment he had on his knee is pretty cutting edge. Jeffries had it also. I am sure that is helping.
Papabear Says
Maybe Amare should go get it done on his Knees.
Not sure if he can because he had micro fracture surgery. I read that Jeffries was advised he might need micro fracture surgery and chose this treatment.
3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.
Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.
I don't care what Kobe's numbers are. You can't be Top 5 MVP and be on a team with a 15-17 record and have never been remotely consistently over .500. Those numbers are facts. Kobe is only making himself better and nothing more.
What you're doing is giving higher credence to scoring efficiency/age and handicapping other areas for other players.
For the record CP3 is #1 on a few outlets I checked at the moment(not his best statistical season but very nice) and one of them I looked at had J.R. Smith @ #10....lol(Earl is playing well though)
If you want to talk factual numbers David Lee is the only 20/10(technically 19.9/10.9) player in the NBA and a game behind us overall in the standings shooting well over 50% from the floor oh and only averaging 1 less ast/gm compared to Kobe. This trumps whatever Kobe is doing. Playoffs start today GSW is playing in the first round @ home Kobe is watching GSW play the first round @ home @ home.
THE END!
So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency
3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Kobe is still Kobe. He's taking the same amount of shots per game but is hitting at 48% this year. His assists per game is at 4.7 which is exactly what his career average is. Kobe is playing the same game he always has. The Lakers don't have the personnel that MDA needs and we know all too well that MDA is too stuboorn to make adjustments. For example, Pao like to operate down low in the post...MDA has him running around the FT line so he can hoist up 15 footers.
Kobe has never been one to hold anything back. The Lakers are old. MVP candidate on a sub .500 team? Heck no.
3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.
So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency
How about win shares and wins produced?
Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.
So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency
How about win shares and wins produced?
That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).
This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.
CashMoney wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Kobe is still Kobe. He's taking the same amount of shots per game but is hitting at 48% this year. His assists per game is at 4.7 which is exactly what his career average is. Kobe is playing the same game he always has. The Lakers don't have the personnel that MDA needs and we know all too well that MDA is too stuboorn to make adjustments. For example, Pao like to operate down low in the post...MDA has him running around the FT line so he can hoist up 15 footers.
Kobe has never been one to hold anything back. The Lakers are old. MVP candidate on a sub .500 team? Heck no.
To some degree they are old, and Howard was dead on when talking about the teams chemistry off the court..At this point in the season thats seperating kobe and Melo's impact on their respective teams.
In this league it's all about being on the same page from top to bottom to have great success, and with MDA who clearly has his own way of communicating with players, and coaching a diva's like Kobe and Melo doesn't help him or the team.
Right now melo is playing like kobe was when he won the M.V.P
mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:3G4G wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:When you place Kobe higher than he should be it makes Melo's case weaker. Not sure how you guys don't understand this.
Kobe should not be ranked in the top 30. He is killing his team with his selfishness.
Kobe and Melo are going in opposite directions.
Kobe is hitting shots at an excellent rate and passing very effectively. Old age is killing his team.
Kobe is getting his numbers at the expense of team success. You can be personally efficient and yet not play in a team aspect. Kobe takes unnecessary heat checks, still shoots over double triple teams, still trying to pull off trick shots. He's hitting a good portion of them at the expense of team chemistry which Dwight Howard says the team has none. Kobe needs to let Nash be Nash, let Howard be Howard, get Gasol the guy who really helped him get rings post Shaq era involved instead of telling him to put big boy pants on. And while blame can be placed on D'AnToni or Brown or whoever Kobe has been there the longest he knows what it takes to win but I'm pretty positive he doesn't care this year. Even James Worthy has called his play disgusting of late. Kobe endorsed D'AnToni over Phil which begs to question why? Kobe is loving his personal scoring accomplishments this year and to come no doubt about it.
I mean he recently commented to the press about how well he's playing and constantly big upping in state rival Clippers, while calling his team old. ROTFLOL @ this clown.
Nothing says Top 5 MVP about the above from him, nothing.
Bonn sorry Kobe is killing your stance and causing you to set a double standard.
Sorry but you have not provided any evidence that my claim is wrong. You're merely stating opinions but presenting them like facts.
So I ask you to present more to the table than just scoring efficiency
How about win shares and wins produced?
That's where it fails. I buy into these stats at some degree but the fact that it gives the same weight to last three shots of a game as it does to the first three shots of a game and that it does not/cannot account for team chemistry makes this fail in this scenario (IMHO).
This is the 80-20 rule where it is in the 20. Eye test wins out for kobe.
Or perhaps your view that 2 points later in the game count more than 2 points earlier in the game is flawed. Anyway, are you saying you give 80% weight to the stats and 20% to your personal observations (or the reverse)? If so, I would not object at all. It doesn't sound like you're giving the stats 80% of the weight in your evaluation of Kobe though.
