Knicks · Does Anyone Appreciate How Well Raymond Felton Is Playing? (page 40)

misterearl @ 1/28/2013 9:00 AM
NBA games start in the fourth quarter

Felton was noticeably a different player in the fourth quarter than in the first. Although he hit a few early jumpers, he seemed to probe more cautiously. In the second half, he became more assertive.

His greatest challenge is floor balance. Using both sides of the court, not off the dribble, but with crisp passing.

Given his limited skill set, and the demands of a star volume shooter, He has an impossible job.

mrKnickShot @ 1/28/2013 12:53 PM
misterearl wrote:NBA games start in the fourth quarter

Felton was noticeably a different player in the fourth quarter than in the first. Although he hit a few early jumpers, he seemed to probe more cautiously. In the second half, he became more assertive.

His greatest challenge is floor balance. Using both sides of the court, not off the dribble, but with crisp passing.

Given his limited skill set, and the demands of a star volume shooter, He has an impossible job.

I think that all 4 quarters count but thats just me

SupremeCommander @ 1/28/2013 1:06 PM
this is still going? the Knicks are better of with Ray than without. "sheesh"
RonRon @ 1/28/2013 1:34 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
RonRon wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:It is not all Felton's fault a lot of that is on the bigs to hedge on the Pg. Felton was actually passing up shots to make the extra pass and got lucky those passes were not turnovers. As he continues to comeback he needs to get Amar'e more involved and divide the post ups between Amar'e and Melo. Melo needs to play off the ball and play off of Amar'e. THey have shown signs both ways and need to keep growing.

To me it's not the isolation/post ups that are the problem it is the lack of movement on the weak side that is more the problem. They need to make cuts and and set screens to take advantage of the defense tilting the D.

great post, would like to add it shouldn't be Felton's job to make Amare/Melo happy
His job is to get the Knick's the highest % shots, utilize all players on the floor as threats, and attack our opponents defense

It is all about sacrifice for the sake of the team and in the end it is about the W's and consistency rather than the result of the play
Whether it is with PnR, penetration, post up, screens on and off the ball, playing off each other's abilities, and attacking the opponents DEFENSE TOGETHER

You are right it is not about making those two happy but getting those guys touches create touches for others. What will hopefully we will continue to get is those drives off the PnR that leads to open spot ups because you can't help off of Amar'e or Melo which leaves Shump, Jr, Kidd, and the return of Novakain open. I did like what I saw mid third qtr and into the 4th there was movement on the weakside.

Also, the late 4 qtr looked a lot like LA's did without the movement and with Kobe making the past. Melo to many times get blinders on once he makes his move to score. He is good at kicking out or finding the open man but he needs to do a better job passing of the move once the D has collapse like the Net game. SOme of that goes back to the lack of movement but other times its him having blinders.


Yep, Melo has *Kobe syndrome* "give me the ball and I will try to score somehow"
Ironically, Kobe has been doing the complete opposite, exactly what Dantoni wanted Melo to do, although *Kobe has much better all round skills, handle/pentration, and IQ to do so*
At least I have seen much less of jab, jab, jab, jab shoot
I do not mind if they do it once awhile and when the shot clock is running out but they NEED to try to execute a better shot when they have the time/opportunity to do so
Even Clyde always recognizes this, it is simple BB IQ, the 1v1 without ball movement/player movement is something we relied too much on and leads to fast break opportunities on the other end as well


My point of bringing up the "making Melo/Amare happy" is because Felton always uses those words to describe his role on the team
This is not high school or the art of happiness, that should not be his mindset
These are grown men with their contract's set already *outside of JR Smith*, their mindset is suppose to be to get the W, not achieve as many stats as they can
It is Felton's job to set the team up, utilizing all players on the floor to attack as a unit, and set it up for whoever is hot/open


It is a great luxury to have players like JR Smith and Melo that can get their shot off, but ONLY if it is NEEDED, not and should NEVER be the 1st option to go to
Problem is they have so much confidence in their ability to score that they cannot separate the difference between a high % shot and a low % shot, with the importance of positioning for offensive boards/shot clock. We play so much better as a unit when we play off each other and move the ball, rather than no continuity

JR Smith tends to waste a lot of time dribbling at times, while going no where, and knowing in the back of his head he can do the step back jumper, but in this whole process, he wastes the shot clock which limits the time to actually make a play for a good shot
He is one of the only players on the entire roster that actually has the ability to penetrate once he catches the ball but by doing wasted dribbles, the defense recovers
Smith must either just penetrate and dish it back out if the shot is not there, or simply move the ball to the open man

It seems JR Smith has been trying too hard to break his recent shooting slump and not letting the game come to him like he did early in the season
We don't need hero ball and it is horrible execution while Woodson is not holding Melo and Smith accountable in which they will repeat these bad plays
Watching Smith and Melo alternate these type of moves hurts my eyes, while they go on cold runs, absolutely kills TEAM chemistry, and other players cannot get in rythme
Again, they both have the realize/recognize that it is a poor decision, low % shot, what our opponents DEFENSE wants us to do as they conserve stamina, and hurts team chemistry

This I believe should be on Woodson and the responsibility of the PG
This is what Jeremy Lin brought to the table vs Felton, he was very much willing to give the ball up to attack the opponents DEFENSE when someone was open, and make the DEFENSE work/use some energy

SupremeCommander @ 1/28/2013 1:36 PM
misterearl wrote:What Is Being Discussed Here?

tkf wrote:
Pick and roll, pass first PG, leadership.. this is what is being discussed here... i heard nothing about defense.. so far we play very little if any pick and roll, and he seems lost out there at times trying to create in this offense... misterearl... not everything can be peaches and cream my friend..

Looking at Eastern Conference point guards, Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd are eleventh and first in assist/turnover ratio, respectively, and Felton's sixth in assists per game. That was once considered a worry. It isn't now.

Basketball or being "righter" than anyone else?

Everything is peaches and cream baby.

Peaches and cream

all I know is that the Knicks are tied for ninth in the league in scoring, third in 3P%, and first in turnovers per game. With Carmelo Anthony playing at PF while everyone and their mother was getting healthy. All we heard all season from the doubters is that Carmelo Anthony is inefficient and this offense can't possibly work with Felton and the AARP. Well it has worked - and it should only get better - and a lion's share of the credit goes to Raymond Felton - who can really, really play - and Jason Kidd (don't need to back him on the back).

VCoug @ 1/28/2013 3:11 PM
misterearl wrote:NBA games start in the fourth quarter

Are you kidding me? That's some casual fan bullshit. You might as well say we shouldn't watch the NBA until the playoffs because the regular season doesn't matter.

misterearl @ 1/28/2013 3:20 PM
The regular season does not matter
VCoug @ 1/28/2013 4:37 PM
misterearl wrote:The regular season does not matter

OK, you convinced me. The fact that over the last 45 years a top 2 seed from each conference has won the title 38 times means nothing. How a team plays during the regular season is meaningless and doesn't have any bearing on how they'll play in the postseason. Even though we have a crappy defense and an offense that's completely reliant on 3-pointers during the regular season doesn't mean that will be the case in the postseason. Got it.

misterearl @ 1/28/2013 5:20 PM
Meaningless

VCoug - the statistics are cute. The regular season is forgotten the instant the playoffs starts. I understand your passionate defense of the regular season and its critical importance to momentum.

In 1999, did anyone really care about us being an eighth seed when Larry Johnson hit the shot against the Pacers?

Nope.

misterearl @ 2/1/2013 12:06 AM
Indispensible

Raymond Felton is the straw that stirs the drink.

Amare, Tyson and Carmelo are learning how to share.

DurzoBlint @ 2/1/2013 7:39 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:this is still going? the Knicks are better of with Ray than without. "sheesh"

its obvious to anyone watching the games. Felton's presence is the key to the teams ball movement and he simply makes it easier for guys, especially our big 3, Melo, Tyson and Stat. Jr even plays more intelligently when Ray is on the court because he doesn't have to handle the ball as much as he does when Ray is out of the lineup.

ChuckBuck @ 2/1/2013 8:39 AM
It's amazing that this thread is 40 pages long. It's pretty evident with Felton back, we can play "beautiful basketball" and get 30 team assists for the stat geeks, and avoid ISO ball for the basketball purists.

Sure, his perimeter D needs work, so does Shumpert's, so does Amare's. But damn a field goal %, he steers the ship, our Flacco, our Kaepernick.

smackeddog @ 2/1/2013 10:52 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:It's amazing that this thread is 40 pages long. It's pretty evident with Felton back, we can play "beautiful basketball" and get 30 team assists for the stat geeks, and avoid ISO ball for the basketball purists.

Sure, his perimeter D needs work, so does Shumpert's, so does Amare's. But damn a field goal %, he steers the ship, our Flacco, our Kaepernick.

Agreed- case closed!

mrKnickShot @ 2/1/2013 12:56 PM
smackeddog wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:It's amazing that this thread is 40 pages long. It's pretty evident with Felton back, we can play "beautiful basketball" and get 30 team assists for the stat geeks, and avoid ISO ball for the basketball purists.

Sure, his perimeter D needs work, so does Shumpert's, so does Amare's. But damn a field goal %, he steers the ship, our Flacco, our Kaepernick.

Agreed- case closed!

yeah right - case closed.

How about we leave the case open through the playoffs

misterearl @ 2/1/2013 1:10 PM
"Hello, my name is..."

“It will take time for me and Shump to get that rhythm with each other. Me and J-Kidd, we knew what each other will do and where each other would be on the defensive end." - Raymond Felton

The cohesion of Felton and Shumpert composes the most interesting subplot of February. As the backcourt grows, so will the frontcourt.

ChuckBuck @ 2/1/2013 1:15 PM
Apparently, judging by the amount of thread pages, the answer to the original question is a resounding NO.

Don't worry Ray, me and a handful of UK fans still got your back! We appreciate what you bring to the table. Stay slim homie!

DurzoBlint @ 2/1/2013 1:44 PM
RonRon wrote:He always has problems defending quicker guards

The effort is there, he just doesn't have the ability to stay in front of them
Felton is strong, tough, but not quick/fast with his feet at least not on DEF
He probably defends some SG's better as he would have the edge on speed/quickness with them, even if he gives up a couple of inches

We are just waiting for Iman to get back his legs/confidence so he can start harassing PG's like we all know he has the ability to do..
I hope Woody envisions our DEFENSE this way as well
To have Iman initiate our DEFENSE with his pressure and having our G/F's defending the passing lanes for more steals, fast breaks, and easy baskets that we have not been getting of late

that is also true for 90% of the guards in the league.

knicks1248 @ 2/1/2013 2:15 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
RonRon wrote:He always has problems defending quicker guards

The effort is there, he just doesn't have the ability to stay in front of them
Felton is strong, tough, but not quick/fast with his feet at least not on DEF
He probably defends some SG's better as he would have the edge on speed/quickness with them, even if he gives up a couple of inches

We are just waiting for Iman to get back his legs/confidence so he can start harassing PG's like we all know he has the ability to do..
I hope Woody envisions our DEFENSE this way as well
To have Iman initiate our DEFENSE with his pressure and having our G/F's defending the passing lanes for more steals, fast breaks, and easy baskets that we have not been getting of late

that is also true for 90% of the guards in the league.

IMO it's very hard to guard most pg's one on one, a quick cross over or hesitant move can get any defender lost in a min, I don't care how quick a feet the defender has. The difference early in the season, we had quicker traps, we had guys closing the lane as soon as the first sign of penetration, kidd was playing the passing lanes very well, guys would bat the ball out of the hands of a potential layup, The rotations were also much better.. In other words the effort was a lot better as a team.

Now it's a lot less talking, less effort and aggressiveness, we do play good "d" at times, just not for the entire game

DurzoBlint @ 2/1/2013 3:34 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
RonRon wrote:He always has problems defending quicker guards

The effort is there, he just doesn't have the ability to stay in front of them
Felton is strong, tough, but not quick/fast with his feet at least not on DEF
He probably defends some SG's better as he would have the edge on speed/quickness with them, even if he gives up a couple of inches

We are just waiting for Iman to get back his legs/confidence so he can start harassing PG's like we all know he has the ability to do..
I hope Woody envisions our DEFENSE this way as well
To have Iman initiate our DEFENSE with his pressure and having our G/F's defending the passing lanes for more steals, fast breaks, and easy baskets that we have not been getting of late

that is also true for 90% of the guards in the league.

IMO it's very hard to guard most pg's one on one, a quick cross over or hesitant move can get any defender lost in a min, I don't care how quick a feet the defender has. The difference early in the season, we had quicker traps, we had guys closing the lane as soon as the first sign of penetration, kidd was playing the passing lanes very well, guys would bat the ball out of the hands of a potential layup, The rotations were also much better.. In other words the effort was a lot better as a team.

Now it's a lot less talking, less effort and aggressiveness, we do play good "d" at times, just not for the entire game

early in the season they would build a collective wall to block opposing guards. They haven't been doing that

misterearl @ 2/1/2013 4:18 PM
Trust takes time

Durzo - once I Man Shumpert regains his sea legs, and the game conditioning to play 4 games in 7 days, the defense could take shape. This process of him regaining confidence, and elite conditioning, will require at least another 2-3 weeks.

Shump and Felton are strangers.

misterearl @ 2/2/2013 6:05 AM
Warrior

“Ray,” Anthony said, “are you all right?”

“Yeah, I’m good,” Felton responded.

The signature play when Felton returned (after we all held our breath, while he fumed on the bench in pain) was the intuitive tap pass to chandler (with his right hand) for the dunk.

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