Knicks · Does Lakers lack of success so far put things into perspective. (page 6)

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

"Whereas it's customary for Melo to first touch the ball 15 to 20 feet out, now he's bringing it up the court and facilitating. He said he's excited about his new role and using the preseason to feel out his new teammates' positioning in halfcourt sets.
"For me to have the ball in my hands and to run the offense, I kind of enjoy doing that," Anthony said. "I have a lot of guys that I can kick the ball to and make something happen -- get people in their position, get people in their spots and get guys where they feel comfortable at. That's something that I've been trying to do throughout this whole training camp."

Didn't he complain about running the team as a point forward coming out of the lockout season? Isn't this what D'Antoni wanted him to do to open up spacing for Amar'e?

exactly, i posted the article where he said he was uncomfortable with it.....dude is funny man..

Now.... Maidservants want to give him credit for running it Woody Hockey Assist style

You guys know this article is from 2011?

Yes we do...... yet his facilitation/facilitating this year has been glorified beyond when he rebuked this style of play in the past

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right. As much as I hate Dantoni's coaching philosophy I think you have to wait to see what the team looks like with Nash and once Pau is traded for complimentary pieces before callig this a failure what 5 games in?

So its okay for Kobe, Howard, Gasol, to have to wait for Nash. But its Melo's fault for not being successful in the same system with Tony Douglas as his PG.

Didn't Dwight Howard lead a team to the finals practically by himself? Now he has to depend on Nash?

in the lakers case nash was brought here as part of a grand plan with specific players in mind.

knicks were not afforded that luxury with the carmelo trade.

this is another case of apples and oranges.

of course the lakers NEED nash.

and so the question remains: did the knicks truly need carmelo?

The Lakers need Nash? They have Kobe Bryant one of the best players in NBA history and Dwight Howard the best center in the NBA by far and former defensive player of the year, as well as Pau Gasol, but they're waiting on a 38 year old PG to save their team? Nash should push them over the top not be the end all be all , they should still be a top team even without him given the talent they have. BTW without Carmelo the Knicks would be a lottery team yes the Knicks need him especially with no Amare

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

"Whereas it's customary for Melo to first touch the ball 15 to 20 feet out, now he's bringing it up the court and facilitating. He said he's excited about his new role and using the preseason to feel out his new teammates' positioning in halfcourt sets.
"For me to have the ball in my hands and to run the offense, I kind of enjoy doing that," Anthony said. "I have a lot of guys that I can kick the ball to and make something happen -- get people in their position, get people in their spots and get guys where they feel comfortable at. That's something that I've been trying to do throughout this whole training camp."

Didn't he complain about running the team as a point forward coming out of the lockout season? Isn't this what D'Antoni wanted him to do to open up spacing for Amar'e?

Not sure he ever complained about it. Any documentation?

Also Melo brings up the ball about 20 percent of the time (maybe less) and most of those times it's because the opposing point guard is applying full court pressure on Felton and it would be easier for him to bring it up to set offense. Felton, Kidd and even sometimes JR brings up the ball most of the time.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Go ahead and Peak-A-Boo this article

Foediddy is right. I think the number is less than 20% though. Not sure why you keep linking to articles from 2011.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right. As much as I hate Dantoni's coaching philosophy I think you have to wait to see what the team looks like with Nash and once Pau is traded for complimentary pieces before callig this a failure what 5 games in?

So its okay for Kobe, Howard, Gasol, to have to wait for Nash. But its Melo's fault for not being successful in the same system with Tony Douglas as his PG.

Didn't Dwight Howard lead a team to the finals practically by himself? Now he has to depend on Nash?

in the lakers case nash was brought here as part of a grand plan with specific players in mind.

knicks were not afforded that luxury with the carmelo trade.

this is another case of apples and oranges.

of course the lakers NEED nash.

and so the question remains: did the knicks truly need carmelo?

Come on now. Was the grand plan mike brown and the Princeton offense? The triangle? I don't think dantoni was on the radar when Nash was hired. If dantoni was the plan good luck.

gunsnewing wrote:Right. As much as I hate Dantoni's coaching philosophy I think you have to wait to see what the team looks like with Nash and once Pau is traded for complimentary pieces before callig this a failure what 5 games in? There is too much talent on the team not to figure it out themselves

I still think that after the CP3 trade was blown up last year that LA should have called Houston and offered Gasol for the same package they were giving New Orleans. Their two biggest problems the last several years were Gasol and Bynum/Dwight don't work very well playing in the front court together and absolutely zero depth. If you subtract Gasol and add Scola, Kevin Martin, Dragic, and whatever else Houston was offering I think LA is a much, much better team.

Rookie wrote:Dwight says he will leave the Lakers if he doesn't think they can win a ring. Didn't take long for the wheels to fall off the bus in L.A.

"So I want to do it the best that I can and I’m going to take everything in I can to get what I can out of the NBA. Which, for me, is winning a championship," Howard said. "So if I have to play on another team or do whatever I have to do to get one, that’s my goal. This is my passion, so I’ll continue to fight."

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/37...

Dwight Howard's problem is his own and nobody else's. All the greatest shooting coaches in the world wouldn't be able to get him to make his free throws. Defense? you don't need a damn coach to remind you how to play defense. You play freaking DEFENSE. Either you do or you don't.

I have no idea what is going on with Pau Gasol. He's looking more and more like he's lost in the forest out there. MDA seems fixated on kicking Pau's butt and making a statement out of it.

Now Kobe is jumping on the 'blame' game. The free throws, turnovers and defense are killing the Lakers. All MDA can do is move pieces around and hope he lands on someone that is having a hot shooting night.

It's never Dantoni's fault. Dantoni never has enough pieces. Kobe, Dwight and Pau are not enough. He must have a total of five all stars / HOF's starting. LMAO! Get real. The guy is sucking.

7 games is enough to say he's sucking?
He's got hall-of-famers who have each played about fifteen seasons. This was the perfect roster for 2008.

Bonn1997 wrote:7 games is enough to say he's sucking?
He's got hall-of-famers who have each played about fifteen seasons. This was the perfect roster for 2008.

Yea, he has sucked. 7 games is enough to see that. Losses to ORL, IND and SAC is enough to see that. Get real. Stop making excuses for this guy. Dantoni needed more time and new players in NY, so we thought, then Woodson took the same exact players and blew the roof off the building...

NUPE wrote:It's never Dantoni's fault. Dantoni never has enough pieces. Kobe, Dwight and Pau are not enough. He must have a total of five all stars / HOF's starting. LMAO! Get real. The guy is sucking.

Why not? if you have Steve Nash on your team just waiting for clearance on his injury, wouldn't you constantly talk about him coming back too? Nash is a Lakers. What else is MDA supposed to say regarding Nash? You talk about players on your team. MDA is talking about players on his team. He isn't talking about Jeremy Lin's progress.

Syniko wrote:

NUPE wrote:It's never Dantoni's fault. Dantoni never has enough pieces. Kobe, Dwight and Pau are not enough. He must have a total of five all stars / HOF's starting. LMAO! Get real. The guy is sucking.

Why not? if you have Steve Nash on your team just waiting for clearance on his injury, wouldn't you constantly talk about him coming back too? Nash is a Lakers. What else is MDA supposed to say regarding Nash? You talk about players on your team. MDA is talking about players on his team. He isn't talking about Jeremy Lin's progress.

Yeah but he also said he never should have left Nash and Phoenix to come to NY. AT least he is being honest and admitting that his success is predicated on having Nash. When he won he had the best point guard/mvp in the game and two or three all stars. He sucked in Denver, he sucked in NY and he has an incredibly talented veteran roster and he is still losing. Hey but Jamison is doing well.

Question used to be can Melo and Amare co-exist in Dantoni's offense. Now in the media its can Kobe and Paul co-exist in Dantoni's offense.
Common denominator =

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops
Can Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol co-exist in Mike D'Antoni's offense? http://sulia.com/my_thoughts/6c340f31-b746-4d39-afa4-54e16ba601d0/?source=twitter …

Syniko wrote:

NUPE wrote:It's never Dantoni's fault. Dantoni never has enough pieces. Kobe, Dwight and Pau are not enough. He must have a total of five all stars / HOF's starting. LMAO! Get real. The guy is sucking.

Why not? if you have Steve Nash on your team just waiting for clearance on his injury, wouldn't you constantly talk about him coming back too? Nash is a Lakers. What else is MDA supposed to say regarding Nash? You talk about players on your team. MDA is talking about players on his team. He isn't talking about Jeremy Lin's progress.

Well if hes not specifically asked about it, constantly mentioning him can only be taken negatively. It can kind of give off the impression that hes waiting for Nash instead of worrying about the players hes got now. I would annoyed if every game the Knicks lost, Woodson would say "when Amare comes back...."

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:
He said leaving PHX was a mistake.

Hindsight: He had new owners who wanted to change things, he was a free agent coach who got a bidding war going between NY and Chicago. HE was not being loved by Sarver and his croney Kerr. They

He felt a long term rebuild in NY with Walsh with a good chance to land lebron and make 24mil a good deal.

Melo made a money grab, Amare made a money grab.

Fans be real, this is a business!

Yea but he chose Chris Duhon over Derrick Rose...who does that?

Im sure the "He wants to be in NY" was the homer call at the time.

It ended up to be another empty and void starphuch. If LA wants to go that route to try thats their biz.

Im not worried about him.

Its not like the Lakers lost in the first or 2nd rd of the playoffs at the very least. They are losing to teams like the Kings, Pacers and Magic.

This thread wasn't made to diss MDA. I don't think MDA needs Nash specifically but he needs a quality PG and he needs spacing 2 things he didn't have after they brought in Tyson or with LA right now.

This thread was made to discuss how Melo was downgraded as a player due to the fact that he had trouble adjusting to Amare and Tyson with poor guard play within MDA's system. Yet Kobe, Gasol, Howard who are better then Melo, Amare, Tyson are having the same struggles.

Carmelo wasn't allowed the convinent excuse lets wait for Nash or even an upgrade at PG. Its okay for ppl to say stuff like MDA needs Nash who is a HOF. But yet when you state Carmelo needed help its called an excuse.

Then there is the fact that Paul Gasol has proven he can win back to back championships playing to his strengths. So why would the Lakers go away from what has been a proven winner of 2 championships and put Gasol in a position of weakness rather then position of strength?

Its what Knicks fans and media do. Ask Lin and Ewing

Some people just hate without thinking..

Even with steve nash there still going to be a bunch of mis fits, those guys just don't compliment each other..I know it was preseaon, but going 0-8 and 1-4 to start a season with that much talent can only mean one thing, they lack chemistry big time..

MDA, has again been toss a below avg pg, and thats only half his promblem..look at gasol numbers, he's avg 12pts on 42% shooting on the season, that coming from a guy who's career avg is 18.5 on 51% shooting.

Did anybody bother to read WOODSONS Q&A with steve serby in sundays NY post..He mention that if the entire team is not on board 100%, it won't work, he also mention that he had the luxury of hand picking his aquistions over the summer, getting guys that fit, guys that are smart, guys bench guys that won't require a lot of minute but can be factors when the do play..Gasol is not on board at all, he's bitching and whinning and he is a key piece on that team..

Q: Have you noticed a change in commitment from a year ago to now?

A: Yes. And a lot of that is the players that we filled in this summer to be on our ball club. We brought in some veteran guys that, their clock is ticking, too. I forgot to mention Rasheed Wallace is on this team, he has a ring, too. A lot of those veteran guys — a few of ’em — haven’t had an opportunity to win a title. Like Marcus Camby ... Raymond Felton, [Carmelo Anthony], Amar’e [Stoudemire] ... they haven’t tasted an NBA title. So, we were able to assemble guys that we thought could come in here and help us, didn’t have to worry about playing big minutes, but be a positive piece to our puzzle. And I think that’s been the difference so far this early season is the fact that we have veteran guys that are hungry ... that really believe that this team, if we stay healthy and we stay together that we got a legitimate shot.
Charles Wenzelberg/New York Post
Mike Woodson

Q: How do you get a team to believe?

A: First you gotta trust one another, and that was a big theme when we started camp. The only way you’re gonna be a team — and it’s gotta be team and win. That’s all I think about —team, win. And how that happens, you gotta trust one another and you gotta be committed.

A coach will have very little success if he doesn't have the type of players that fit his system, it's a known fact..Why do some of you keep blaming MDA for coaching a roster he had nothing to do with and expecting him to adapt..Its ridiculous to think that..

The guy essentially won 2 gold medals with his system..

NUPE wrote:I gave Dantoni the benefit of the doubt in NY. Then Woodson took over and went 18-6 with the same roster Dantoni was floundering with. This is when I started to reconsider my stance on Dantoni. Now Dantoni has a stacked roster in LA and is sub .500 and losing to ORL. The writings on the wall. Dantoni is just not doing a good job.

This is a very honest and respectable way to look at Mike Dantoni's track record.

You believed in him, and as a fan you gave him a chance.

Facts, statistics, and records later proved to you that he is a failure.Therefore, you had the right to change your stance and you did.

Why some people keep defending this man for his lack of coaching ability is beyond me.

Nice post.

knicks1248 wrote:Some people just hate without thinking..

Even with steve nash there still going to be a bunch of mis fits, those guys just don't compliment each other..I know it was preseaon, but going 0-8 and 1-4 to start a season with that much talent can only mean one thing, they lack chemistry big time..

MDA, has again been toss a below avg pg, and thats only half his promblem..look at gasol numbers, he's avg 12pts on 42% shooting on the season, that coming from a guy who's career avg is 18.5 on 51% shooting.

Did anybody bother to read WOODSONS Q&A with steve serby in sundays NY post..He mention that if the entire team is not on board 100%, it won't work, he also mention that he had the luxury of hand picking his aquistions over the summer, getting guys that fit, guys that are smart, guys bench guys that won't require a lot of minute but can be factors when the do play..Gasol is not on board at all, he's bitching and whinning and he is a key piece on that team..

Q: Have you noticed a change in commitment from a year ago to now?

A: Yes. And a lot of that is the players that we filled in this summer to be on our ball club. We brought in some veteran guys that, their clock is ticking, too. I forgot to mention Rasheed Wallace is on this team, he has a ring, too. A lot of those veteran guys — a few of ’em — haven’t had an opportunity to win a title. Like Marcus Camby ... Raymond Felton, [Carmelo Anthony], Amar’e [Stoudemire] ... they haven’t tasted an NBA title. So, we were able to assemble guys that we thought could come in here and help us, didn’t have to worry about playing big minutes, but be a positive piece to our puzzle. And I think that’s been the difference so far this early season is the fact that we have veteran guys that are hungry ... that really believe that this team, if we stay healthy and we stay together that we got a legitimate shot.
Charles Wenzelberg/New York Post
Mike Woodson

Q: How do you get a team to believe?

A: First you gotta trust one another, and that was a big theme when we started camp. The only way you’re gonna be a team — and it’s gotta be team and win. That’s all I think about —team, win. And how that happens, you gotta trust one another and you gotta be committed.

A coach will have very little success if he doesn't have the type of players that fit his system, it's a known fact..Why do some of you keep blaming MDA for coaching a roster he had nothing to do with and expecting him to adapt..Its ridiculous to think that..

The guy essentially won 2 gold medals with his system..

bold part -- wouldnt having the best players on earth have had something to do with that? i suspect they coulda won playing many diff offensive systems with that talent.

3G4G wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

3G4G wrote:As has been stated it shows how important Nash was first and foremost always and forever but second no player no matter what team he plays for is absolved from not giving full effort something Melo admitted he didn't do when D'Antoni was the coach. For this reason among many others he's made it hard for me to support him as a player.

Dwight Howard very similar to Melo in that he derailed Orlando. I loved the fact Orlando kicked their butts yesterday. I'm hoping if Kyrie can get back on the mend soon the Cavs can be every bit the foe for the Heat.

I do not, will not, support players who do things on their terms that in any way sets back a team or becomes a detriment to a team's present and long-term success.

Sorry I have standards

Yet MDA is absolved for admittingly quitting on the Suns, then quitting on the Knicks.

Who absolved him from quitting on this team? He went to mgmt made a request to trade for Deron and it's obvious how things shook down from there. He wasn't extended, somewhat forced to hire a defensive assistant, at odds with star, star at odds with him, the writing was on the wall, he was lame duck, he took the safe route not good.

I said from jump we should have never hired D'Antoni nevertheless it doesn't absolve Melo.

You state who absolved him from quitting in the beggining then go on to paint the picture on how everyone else did him wrong with absolutely no criticism.

He went to mgmt for Deron because he needed a stud PG. Lin started to fall off and wasn't reliable enough and he was running out of time to make it happen for the playoffs. He was forced to hire a defensive assistant because he deosn't teach defense which is one of his flaws as a coach. Again rather then accepting that as a flaw its painted as him being wronged. He was at odds with the roster which spilled over to the star since it put both he and the star in a compromising position.

MDA gets treated like the innocent coach who was treated unfairly, while Melo gets painted as the evil coach killer who ran him out of town. Truth is the roster wasn't set up for MDA to run his style of play so he needed to adapt until he got the pieces in place to do so.

It went for last season Melo as the sole reason to why MDA's offense didn't run smooth last season due to him being an out of shape, selfish, coach killer to Kobe, Gasol, Howard needing Steve Nash to make the offense work.