Knicks · SSOL visited..... (page 7)
Woodson said he will continue to use some of the plays that we working and guys knew them already. That's props to Woodson for being flexible, unlike his predecessor. You want facts? You can't handle the facts. MDA is a bad coach who stumbled upon some elements that other good coaches saw used by his teams and actually made them work even when MDA could not. MDA could only make his own system work with Steve Nash. Another fact. So props to Nash for showing what MDA came up with to the whole league.
Nalod wrote:The fable of 18-6 when the Knicks were headed towards giving a lottery pick to houston last year before D'Antoni chose to leave? How about the fable of 18-24 or the epic of 121-167. Things got better right after D'Antoni left and that hasn't stopped. Just for perspective, Mike Woodson has equaled or surpassed D'Antoni's win total for the first two seasons he was in NY in 42 games. The majority of those wins came with the same roster that Mike D'Antoni got to 18 wins in 42 games. Whatever concepts D'Antoni has they didn't translate here. I am a fan of a team, not of concepts that don't transfer to wins or performance. The guy was a disaster and if you go to any laker board the pro d'antoni guys are saying we have to wait until Nash is back. Others are saying no one will coach here if we fire him because we will look dysfunctional. The rest want him canned. The first two arguments were used on this forum ad nauseam until D'Antoni finally resigned.nixluva wrote:BLAH BLAH BLAH! I read the same ish from you guys for years. NOTHING to really back up what you're saying at all. Just jokes and circular logic to try and confuse the issue. The truth is that as i've shown in writing in the past Woody himself stated that he was going to continue to use MDA's stuff. The Knicks are CLEARLY running the same plays but with BETTER PLAYERS!!! The reasons Woody is using the plays is because he realizes that they were successful in helping the role players on the team excel. As i've said Melo doesn't need the system cuz he can create his own shot, but it does help him cuz it takes the pressure off of him as well as the focus of the defense on him. Felton clearly excelled under MDA's system and he knew he'd be able to pick right up again since he knew it already.The Knicks lead the league in 3pt attempts and they run a high % of PnR and use the spread floor sets that are pure MDA. If you guys had any evidence that what i'm saying is wrong you'd present it but you don't. Rather than always looking to bash me for pointing out the facts you should perhaps finally acknowledge that MDA was right about what he was trying to get the team to do offensively. This year the difference is we have more talent. More guys that can knock down a 3 and VASTLY superior PG play. The idea that somehow moving the ball to the open man wasn't the KEY part of MDA's offense is ridiculous. When you have role players that aren't great at creating their own shot MDA's offense has proven to be HIGHLY effective. Woody has built on top of that basic offensive concept and added to it. No different than Gentry did in PHX, Pop did in San Antonio, Spoelstra in Miami. They all have run variations of MDA's offense. It's not a diss it's a statement of FACT!
Nix, you can't argue the fable of 18-6! The playoff crumble was due to the roster falling apart because of injury. It crumbled because we lacked depth.Depth we have now.
18-6 was created using the partial elements of MDA. Olympic metal teams destroyed the world because of Talent. Who did coach K call to organize his offense?
MDA has valid concepts that need the talent to run it.
THe joyful noise created by his initial struggle in LA in a small sample confirms the ignorance displayed by the Homers who so sing this tune are looking for some elevation of the knicks by the failure of others.
14-4 speaks loud and clear on its own.
Given our humble experience the last 11 years I'd expect many to be a bit more knowledgable about things.
somehow 14 and 4 makes homers smarter. Go figure.
Nalod wrote:nixluva wrote:BLAH BLAH BLAH! I read the same ish from you guys for years. NOTHING to really back up what you're saying at all. Just jokes and circular logic to try and confuse the issue. The truth is that as i've shown in writing in the past Woody himself stated that he was going to continue to use MDA's stuff. The Knicks are CLEARLY running the same plays but with BETTER PLAYERS!!! The reasons Woody is using the plays is because he realizes that they were successful in helping the role players on the team excel. As i've said Melo doesn't need the system cuz he can create his own shot, but it does help him cuz it takes the pressure off of him as well as the focus of the defense on him. Felton clearly excelled under MDA's system and he knew he'd be able to pick right up again since he knew it already.The Knicks lead the league in 3pt attempts and they run a high % of PnR and use the spread floor sets that are pure MDA. If you guys had any evidence that what i'm saying is wrong you'd present it but you don't. Rather than always looking to bash me for pointing out the facts you should perhaps finally acknowledge that MDA was right about what he was trying to get the team to do offensively. This year the difference is we have more talent. More guys that can knock down a 3 and VASTLY superior PG play. The idea that somehow moving the ball to the open man wasn't the KEY part of MDA's offense is ridiculous. When you have role players that aren't great at creating their own shot MDA's offense has proven to be HIGHLY effective. Woody has built on top of that basic offensive concept and added to it. No different than Gentry did in PHX, Pop did in San Antonio, Spoelstra in Miami. They all have run variations of MDA's offense. It's not a diss it's a statement of FACT!
Nix, you can't argue the fable of 18-6! The playoff crumble was due to the roster falling apart because of injury. It crumbled because we lacked depth.Depth we have now.
18-6 was created using the partial elements of MDA. Olympic metal teams destroyed the world because of Talent. Who did coach K call to organize his offense?
MDA has valid concepts that need the talent to run it.
THe joyful noise created by his initial struggle in LA in a small sample confirms the ignorance displayed by the Homers who so sing this tune are looking for some elevation of the knicks by the failure of others.
14-4 speaks loud and clear on its own.
Given our humble experience the last 11 years I'd expect many to be a bit more knowledgable about things.
somehow 14 and 4 makes homers smarter. Go figure.
That perspective gets thrown out the window as soon as you change the name from MDA to someone else. I don't remember the plea for patience and perspective when Denver's early success was used for the elevation of others and down grade of one.
Read people. Relax. I know, they all suck. Lenny, Larry, MDA.....they all sucked.
then they got made gone.
SSOL visited the KNicks in Miami and the talent & coaching got a big win. Thats all. A familiar scheme.
Nobody is trying to resurrect MDA's cred. Thats up to him.
All we saying not every thing he did was garbage.
Nalod wrote:
Read people. Relax. I know, they all suck. Lenny, Larry, MDA.....they all sucked.then they got made gone.
SSOL visited the KNicks in Miami and the talent & coaching got a big win. Thats all. A familiar scheme.
Nobody is trying to resurrect MDA's cred. Thats up to him.
All we saying not every thing he did was garbage.
It wasn't complete garbage, have to be fair
Nalod wrote:
Read people. Relax. I know, they all suck. Lenny, Larry, MDA.....they all sucked.then they got made gone.
SSOL visited the KNicks in Miami and the talent & coaching got a big win. Thats all. A familiar scheme.
Nobody is trying to resurrect MDA's cred. Thats up to him.
All we saying not every thing he did was garbage.
Given our humble experience the last 11 years I'd expect many to be a bit more knowledgable about things.I don't think you post something like that not expecting a response. Also, not sure where anyone criticized Lenny. Lenny was a very good coach but he was sabotaged by Isiah. D'Antoni was defended and protected by his gm. Some said LBJ wouldn't choose NY because he knew how important defense was. D'Antoni was supposed to be an asset in free agency but turned out to be a liability. Even a guy who couldn't get an insured contract had to have a reconciliation meeting before signing in NY. SSOL isn't about the last decade it is about the last coach. Spinning things into the last decade doesn't go along with the thread. This isn't a thread about Isiah and Layden or Lenny. SSOL is a well defined topic. It sucks to be called out when you are just trying to stir the pot again. This calling guys homers because the team moved on from trying to make a 4 year mistake work is nonsense. Baiting posters is your specialty. When you are called on it don't tell guys to relax.somehow 14 and 4 makes homers smarter. Go figure.
No one is saying MDA is better than Woody or any credit needs to go to MDA, aside from acknowledgment of where these concepts came from. That's all any of us have pointed out. This is Woody's team Period!!! Just don't try and sell this crap that Woody came up with this offense on his own. It's not true and Woody would tell you that as he openly stated before the season. Stop bringing up meaningless arguments that have no point except to try and obscure the real point of this thread.
nixluva wrote:Rather than go back and regurgitate old arguments, the point of this thread has yet to be refuted by any serious argument in this thread. The Knicks are basically running MDA's offense, at least the half court part of it. Woody is using it because he knows that IT WORKS!!! It's been proven to work and help role players to excel. Players with limited ability but decent NBA skills do better playing in this offensive style and it's been proven over and over again. When Woody totally abandoned the system the Knicks didn't look as good once Melo cooled off. A super hot Melo somewhat covered up the fact that our role players weren't getting it done, but you can't expect Melo to be able to play on that level as he did last April for an entire season. Thus Woody made a logical decision to employ some of MDA's stuff. We all see it but some want to pretend that they don't.Woodson says Red Holtzman, Bobby Knight ,Larry Brown, and Bill Smith are influences on how he coaches. He said last year he went with some of the things that D'Antoni did because he didn't have time to insert his own stuff. Woodson has talked about being open minded and asked that players give input about things they think are working or not working. I am sure that he observed D'Antoni and incorporated anything that he thought was a strength but you are talking about a guy that has been coached and or coached with hof coaches. D'Antoni didn't invent the pick and roll or the three point shot.No one is saying MDA is better than Woody or any credit needs to go to MDA, aside from acknowledgment of where these concepts came from. That's all any of us have pointed out. This is Woody's team Period!!! Just don't try and sell this crap that Woody came up with this offense on his own. It's not true and Woody would tell you that as he openly stated before the season. Stop bringing up meaningless arguments that have no point except to try and obscure the real point of this thread.
It's kinda late and I'll only mention one more thing. The term hockey assist became a household term when talking about Melo. George Karl says "Why ? Why wasn't I able to do this, damn it." MDA tried and failed and now you want to tell me that MDA has more to do with our O when Melo is in the game ?
I don't think that's fair.
It was a compliment to a non rigid coach who used a schematic from a coach he was an assistant under.
Nalod roots for all knicks coaches to succeed. Usually change has not bought better results.
Many UK posters rallied for change. JVG>Chaney>Wilkens>Herb>Larry>Isiah>MDA>Woodson this all in 11 years and this is the only instance change has lead to improvement.
I have liked every coach we had except Isiah.
Woodson Im sure uses elements from Larry whom he spent years with in Philly and Detroit.
If I said that "Lack of turnovers from UNC Alum Felton is a result of his influence from Larry" would anyone go nuts? Does this dilute the "Brotherhood of man" theme? Does it take away from the endearing woodson effect? Or is it just an element of coaching and using fundamentals of the game?
thats all folks, just talking hoop. HIt the open man and do it fast. Despite my inability to read a box score we took 13 more shots, but more telling we took 28 more threes against Miami.
I saw Holzmans knicks. Not all of it were the highlight reels we have in our minds eye but we did not have the three pt for direct comparison.
One thing that is very different is our defense is a far higher priority. That is not SSOL.
So in the high literal sense this would be wrong of me to call it that.
But against Miami we rained in more shots and more threes in a more spread out offense with a faster priority than previous games. Thus I proclaimed SSOL visited in a sort of hybrid.
Bad choice of words I suppose. HomerPhile's get very uptight.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than go back and regurgitate old arguments, the point of this thread has yet to be refuted by any serious argument in this thread. The Knicks are basically running MDA's offense, at least the half court part of it. Woody is using it because he knows that IT WORKS!!! It's been proven to work and help role players to excel. Players with limited ability but decent NBA skills do better playing in this offensive style and it's been proven over and over again. When Woody totally abandoned the system the Knicks didn't look as good once Melo cooled off. A super hot Melo somewhat covered up the fact that our role players weren't getting it done, but you can't expect Melo to be able to play on that level as he did last April for an entire season. Thus Woody made a logical decision to employ some of MDA's stuff. We all see it but some want to pretend that they don't.Woodson says Red Holtzman, Bobby Knight ,Larry Brown, and Bill Smith are influences on how he coaches. He said last year he went with some of the things that D'Antoni did because he didn't have time to insert his own stuff. Woodson has talked about being open minded and asked that players give input about things they think are working or not working. I am sure that he observed D'Antoni and incorporated anything that he thought was a strength but you are talking about a guy that has been coached and or coached with hof coaches. D'Antoni didn't invent the pick and roll or the three point shot.No one is saying MDA is better than Woody or any credit needs to go to MDA, aside from acknowledgment of where these concepts came from. That's all any of us have pointed out. This is Woody's team Period!!! Just don't try and sell this crap that Woody came up with this offense on his own. It's not true and Woody would tell you that as he openly stated before the season. Stop bringing up meaningless arguments that have no point except to try and obscure the real point of this thread.
Like someone said before, lets not start this arguement all over again. Woody used plays and systems from ALL the coaches in the past. To give mda credit for this teams success is NUTS. The key thought in the above is that Woody is OPENMINDED AND TALKS TO HIS PLAYERS. As I was a coach and player in the WAY BACK,when you ask a player his input that gives that player a feeling of trust,respect and belonging. mda was hardheaded,as we all know. Lets make an comparison,if your boss asked your opinion on a certain thing in work doesnt that make you feel good? Same thing with Woody, he makes his players feel good when they do good and holds them accountable when they do bad. Our players trust Woody,they didnt trust mda.IMHO
cooch2584 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than go back and regurgitate old arguments, the point of this thread has yet to be refuted by any serious argument in this thread. The Knicks are basically running MDA's offense, at least the half court part of it. Woody is using it because he knows that IT WORKS!!! It's been proven to work and help role players to excel. Players with limited ability but decent NBA skills do better playing in this offensive style and it's been proven over and over again. When Woody totally abandoned the system the Knicks didn't look as good once Melo cooled off. A super hot Melo somewhat covered up the fact that our role players weren't getting it done, but you can't expect Melo to be able to play on that level as he did last April for an entire season. Thus Woody made a logical decision to employ some of MDA's stuff. We all see it but some want to pretend that they don't.Woodson says Red Holtzman, Bobby Knight ,Larry Brown, and Bill Smith are influences on how he coaches. He said last year he went with some of the things that D'Antoni did because he didn't have time to insert his own stuff. Woodson has talked about being open minded and asked that players give input about things they think are working or not working. I am sure that he observed D'Antoni and incorporated anything that he thought was a strength but you are talking about a guy that has been coached and or coached with hof coaches. D'Antoni didn't invent the pick and roll or the three point shot.No one is saying MDA is better than Woody or any credit needs to go to MDA, aside from acknowledgment of where these concepts came from. That's all any of us have pointed out. This is Woody's team Period!!! Just don't try and sell this crap that Woody came up with this offense on his own. It's not true and Woody would tell you that as he openly stated before the season. Stop bringing up meaningless arguments that have no point except to try and obscure the real point of this thread.
Like someone said before, lets not start this arguement all over again. Woody used plays and systems from ALL the coaches in the past. To give mda credit for this teams success is NUTS. The key thought in the above is that Woody is OPENMINDED AND TALKS TO HIS PLAYERS. As I was a coach and player in the WAY BACK,when you ask a player his input that gives that player a feeling of trust,respect and belonging. mda was hardheaded,as we all know. Lets make an comparison,if your boss asked your opinion on a certain thing in work doesnt that make you feel good? Same thing with Woody, he makes his players feel good when they do good and holds them accountable when they do bad. Our players trust Woody,they didnt trust mda.IMHO
Boom! the Take away from Woodson was fabricated by HomerPhile fear I was diluting Woodson. It was a compliment to borrow.
Yes, I agree with what your saying.
Nalod wrote:cooch2584 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than go back and regurgitate old arguments, the point of this thread has yet to be refuted by any serious argument in this thread. The Knicks are basically running MDA's offense, at least the half court part of it. Woody is using it because he knows that IT WORKS!!! It's been proven to work and help role players to excel. Players with limited ability but decent NBA skills do better playing in this offensive style and it's been proven over and over again. When Woody totally abandoned the system the Knicks didn't look as good once Melo cooled off. A super hot Melo somewhat covered up the fact that our role players weren't getting it done, but you can't expect Melo to be able to play on that level as he did last April for an entire season. Thus Woody made a logical decision to employ some of MDA's stuff. We all see it but some want to pretend that they don't.Woodson says Red Holtzman, Bobby Knight ,Larry Brown, and Bill Smith are influences on how he coaches. He said last year he went with some of the things that D'Antoni did because he didn't have time to insert his own stuff. Woodson has talked about being open minded and asked that players give input about things they think are working or not working. I am sure that he observed D'Antoni and incorporated anything that he thought was a strength but you are talking about a guy that has been coached and or coached with hof coaches. D'Antoni didn't invent the pick and roll or the three point shot.No one is saying MDA is better than Woody or any credit needs to go to MDA, aside from acknowledgment of where these concepts came from. That's all any of us have pointed out. This is Woody's team Period!!! Just don't try and sell this crap that Woody came up with this offense on his own. It's not true and Woody would tell you that as he openly stated before the season. Stop bringing up meaningless arguments that have no point except to try and obscure the real point of this thread.
Like someone said before, lets not start this arguement all over again. Woody used plays and systems from ALL the coaches in the past. To give mda credit for this teams success is NUTS. The key thought in the above is that Woody is OPENMINDED AND TALKS TO HIS PLAYERS. As I was a coach and player in the WAY BACK,when you ask a player his input that gives that player a feeling of trust,respect and belonging. mda was hardheaded,as we all know. Lets make an comparison,if your boss asked your opinion on a certain thing in work doesnt that make you feel good? Same thing with Woody, he makes his players feel good when they do good and holds them accountable when they do bad. Our players trust Woody,they didnt trust mda.IMHO
Boom! the Take away from Woodson was fabricated by HomerPhile fear I was diluting Woodson. It was a compliment to borrow.
Yes, I agree with what your saying.
WOW, its early sunday morning and Nalod and I agree on something. I think Ill just go back to bed and wait until monday morning LOL
cooch2584 wrote:Nalod I will not hold hands with you and sing kummbiya
Sure as hell not after you read my post and felt compelled to go back to bed!
cooch2584 wrote:HUH?
you read the post and went back to bed to masturbate! Its a jerk off joke.
Read the post, agreed, got a stiffy, went back to bed. Sunday morning.
Just a joke.
Holding hands after jerking off!!!!
Get it???
Hello? Hello?
Just a joke!!!1
Nalod wrote:cooch2584 wrote:HUH?you read the post and went back to bed to masturbate! Its a jerk off joke.
Read the post, agreed, got a stiffy, went back to bed. Sunday morning.
Just a joke.
Holding hands after jerking off!!!!
Get it???
Hello? Hello?
Just a joke!!!1
