Knicks · Fishmike, get in here.... (Carmelo MVP article) (page 3)

you can't always look at numbers to determine a players worth..melo is actual making his teammates better, his assit would be higher if not for kidd, felton and our ball movement. If there was a stat (pass that leads to an ast he would lead the league..

More importantly, he has his team on top of the eastern conference, what else matters?

CashMoney wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Sometimes I believe that some of you really don't want a championship. I think that some of you just want to find a place to bitch and moan. It's too soon to know for sure if Melo will get the MVP but in my mind he is my mvp.

+1,000,000

I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first round series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Exactly; I read Papabear's statement below and until the final sentence, I thought he was criticizing those posting all the "Melo is an MVP" threads.

Papapbear: Sometimes I believe that some of you really don't want a championship. I think that some of you just want to find a place to bitch and moan. It's too soon to know for sure if Melo will get the MVP but in my mind he is my mvp.

I thought the final sentence was going to be, "You guys don't care whether the team wins or loses; you just want Melo to be MVP and want to yell at those who don't consider him to be an MVP"

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

It may be OK....depends on how it goes down. IMHO this may be the best team we've ever had. We're built to win and win now. Anything less will be dissapointing to me to say the least.

Oh yea I forgot we lost the deal to the Nuggies! LOL.

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

I agree %100 percent.

We have our core players for another 3 years, what's wrong with saying if we don't win this YEAR, showing progress with multiple other accomplishments is moving in the right direction.

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Don't mind him. of the sombersix, he has the least substance.

I agree with you, though I know you want a title like ever fan does.

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Then there's no sense in the statement..."THIS TEAM WAS BUILT TO WIN NOW".......win what?

So in other words you'd be completely fine first round series competitive battle or quick second round exit with Melo winning MVP honors. No different than what the Nuggets could essentially achieve this season or seasons prior to when Melo was there. We did not make a trade for Carmelo Anthony to baby step our way to a Championship. There was no patience with the team prior to the trade. So no winning just 1 playoff series this year would not be a success.

I certainly unequivocally wouldn't be happy with such season ending results.

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first round series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

NO NOT ME I want the chip,its there to be taken the cheat are a mess,ITS OUR TIME, OUR CHIP

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Then there's no sense in the statement..."THIS TEAM WAS BUILT TO WIN NOW".......win what?

So in other words you'd be completely fine first round series competitive battle or quick second round exit with Melo winning MVP honors. No different than what the Nuggets could essentially achieve this season or seasons prior to when Melo was there. We did not make a trade for Carmelo Anthony to baby step our way to a Championship. There was no patience with the team prior to the trade. So no winning just 1 playoff series this year would not be a success.

I certainly unequivocally wouldn't be happy with such season ending results.

You seem to be reaching and straining to avoid common sense. I did not remotely mention Melo or MVP or anything pertaining to individual awards. You are free to decide what amounts to success for your purposes. Just don't pretend that that is the standard that must be applied or that everyone agrees with it.

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Then there's no sense in the statement..."THIS TEAM WAS BUILT TO WIN NOW".......win what?

So in other words you'd be completely fine first round series competitive battle or quick second round exit with Melo winning MVP honors. No different than what the Nuggets could essentially achieve this season or seasons prior to when Melo was there. We did not make a trade for Carmelo Anthony to baby step our way to a Championship. There was no patience with the team prior to the trade. So no winning just 1 playoff series this year would not be a success.

I certainly unequivocally wouldn't be happy with such season ending results.

I think you totally misunderstood his statement.

In the sports world "Built to Win Now" doesn't necessarily mean win a championship this year or it's a complete failure. It means that you have built a product that's a legitimate contender - a championship caliber team.

So, an ECF exit wouldn't be a failure in my book at all. It's an improvement and something to build on. When analyst say this is a team built to win it all, they are saying that they expect this team to achieve such goals within the next couple years.

Win Miami signed the big 3, they were in "win now" mode and it took them a year, which they had a full training camp.

Coming from basically not making the playoffs and being a joke franchise to were we are now, I will say that these offseason moves and the trade is already paying off. Imagine not putting together this team and Brooklyn doing what their doing ... It would be a nightmare.

You are all making me sooooo angry with this MVP talk. I'm just so angry I could hoot and holler!

Hersports85 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Then there's no sense in the statement..."THIS TEAM WAS BUILT TO WIN NOW".......win what?

So in other words you'd be completely fine first round series competitive battle or quick second round exit with Melo winning MVP honors. No different than what the Nuggets could essentially achieve this season or seasons prior to when Melo was there. We did not make a trade for Carmelo Anthony to baby step our way to a Championship. There was no patience with the team prior to the trade. So no winning just 1 playoff series this year would not be a success.

I certainly unequivocally wouldn't be happy with such season ending results.

I think you totally misunderstood his statement.

In the sports world "Built to Win Now" doesn't necessarily mean win a championship this year or it's a complete failure. It means that you have built a product that's a legitimate contender - a championship caliber team.

So, an ECF exit wouldn't be a failure in my book at all. It's an improvement and something to build on. When analyst say this is a team built to win it all, they are saying that they expect this team to achieve such goals within the next couple years.

Win Miami signed the big 3, they were in "win now" mode and it took them a year, which they had a full training camp.

Coming from basically not making the playoffs and being a joke franchise to were we are now, I will say that these offseason moves and the trade is already paying off. Imagine not putting together this team and Brooklyn doing what their doing ... It would be a nightmare.

You guys are speaking as if this is the first year we're going to make the playoffs in forever. We've made the playoffs the past 2yrs. 2 near playoff sweeps with Melo. You're also speaking as if it's a near lock we make the ECF this season. Sounds like a borrowing of time and if ultimate goal isn't achieved that's okay at least we have an MVP....YIPEEEE HIP-HIP HOORAY!!!!!!

3G4G wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:I think some fans are cool with just having a competitive first series as long as Melo wins MVP or gets National recognition they'll be ecstatic about the season as a whole.

Maybe the casual fan but I don't think anyone here on UK would feel that way. With the way the team is playing right now I think we can go all the way. If that is the case Melo may indeed get MVP but I could care less. I would be much more happy with a finals MVP.

Actually NUPE says it's okay if we don't win the championship this year. He told TKF...."Why does this team have to win the championship this year?"

He said the last decade of failure doesn't mean we have win a championship this year... we just need to show progress.

Sorry for passionate and not a casual fan who has suffered this long in particular a fan like TKF who has followed the team over 30yrs he wants a championship now since our future isn't bright.

TKF claimed this season would be a failure of the Knicks don't win a title. I responded that there are many things this team can accomplish that it has not done in over a decade such as win the division, win the East, win a playoff round or two, maybe win around 60 games. A combination of some of those things would make this season a success, imo, even if the Knicks don't win a title. Obviously, I'd prefer to win the title, however, asserting a title must be won or it's a failure is absurd. How can you go from not winning a playoff series in over a decade to having to win a title to be a success. SMH!

Then there's no sense in the statement..."THIS TEAM WAS BUILT TO WIN NOW".......win what?

So in other words you'd be completely fine first round series competitive battle or quick second round exit with Melo winning MVP honors. No different than what the Nuggets could essentially achieve this season or seasons prior to when Melo was there. We did not make a trade for Carmelo Anthony to baby step our way to a Championship. There was no patience with the team prior to the trade. So no winning just 1 playoff series this year would not be a success.

I certainly unequivocally wouldn't be happy with such season ending results.

I think you totally misunderstood his statement.

In the sports world "Built to Win Now" doesn't necessarily mean win a championship this year or it's a complete failure. It means that you have built a product that's a legitimate contender - a championship caliber team.

So, an ECF exit wouldn't be a failure in my book at all. It's an improvement and something to build on. When analyst say this is a team built to win it all, they are saying that they expect this team to achieve such goals within the next couple years.

Win Miami signed the big 3, they were in "win now" mode and it took them a year, which they had a full training camp.

Coming from basically not making the playoffs and being a joke franchise to were we are now, I will say that these offseason moves and the trade is already paying off. Imagine not putting together this team and Brooklyn doing what their doing ... It would be a nightmare.

You guys are speaking as if this is the first year we're going to make the playoffs in forever. We've made the playoffs the past 2yrs. 2 near playoff sweeps with Melo. You're also speaking as if it's a near lock we make the ECF this season. Sounds like a borrowing of time and if ultimate goal isn't achieved that's okay at least we have an MVP....YIPEEEE HIP-HIP HOORAY!!!!!!

It took 36 games to get to 18 wins last year. The year before it took 30 games. The year before that it took 46 games so this year feels a bit different. I don't think anyone is putting Melo accolades ahead of team acomplishments. I do think this team has a great chance to make a deep playoff run and have heard 'experts' predicting the same thing. The Knicks made the playoffs last year because Melo was the best player in the league for the last month of the season. I can't imagine hanging around here waiting for things to go wrong to have an I told you so moment. Is that what you are doing? Is it Melo hate to the point that success with Melo isn't worth it?

I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Carmelo will get the MVP if:
1) The Knicks get the best record in the league. The Knicks turnaround will be the talk of the season and there will be little to no chance they wouldn't give the MVP to the best player on the team when he assuredly will finish top 3 or so in scoring.

2) The Knicks finish with at least the 2nd best record in the East and Carmelo wins the scoring title. As long as they are in striking distance, they can use him leading the league in scoring as an excuse not to give the MVP to LeBron again. However if someone like Durant passes him scoring will be hard not to give Durant the award.

3) in other instances, I think Carmelo's lack of big secondary numbers (assists, rebs, FG%) will work against him with the voters.

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward