Knicks · JR Smith vs JJohnson (page 1)

http://knicks.lohudblogs.com/2012/12/20/shooting-guard-smackdown-joe-johnson-vs-j-r-smith/

by: Howard Megdal - Posted in Around the NBA on Dec 20, 2012

Shooting Guard Smackdown: Joe Johnson vs. J.R. Smith

Posted by: Howard Megdal - Posted in Around the NBA on Dec 20, 2012

This is a joke, right? The Nets acquired a six-time all star in Joe Johnson to start at shooting guard, paying him max money. The Knicks grabbed J.R. Smith midseason last year from China, and re-signed him for $2.8 million. So who’s been better?

I mean, it pretty clearly is J.R. Smith.

So far, Smith has been playing nearly starter minutes, better than 32 per game, despite coming off the bench. Johnson is playing just under 39 per game for the Nets. And in that time, Smith is giving the Knicks more than Johnson overall.

There’s a slight edge to Johnson in shooting accuracy, 42.7% to 40.5% overall, 36.8% to 36.1% from three-point range. Of course, Johnson is doing that with the Nets’ first team, while Smith has done so often as the primary, and only, offensive threat on the floor at any given time.

Johnson, accordingly, has an edge in assist percentage, 17% to 13%. (Again, who is Smith finding for easy baskets?) But Smith has doubled Johnson’s rebounding percentage, 8.5 to 4.4 percent. And while Johnson has taken good care of the ball, with a 10.4% turnover rate, Smith has been even better, at 8.9%. That’s good enough for seventh-best in the NBA among guards this season.

Add in the defensive edge from Smith (double the steals, greater ability to guard two guards with his quickness) and the reality of Smith outplaying Johnson becomes clearer. Considering that Smith is a bench weapon, Johnson a starter, the difference in records between the Nets and Knicks starts to make more sense.

The Player Efficiency Ratings? J.R. Smith, 14.3. Joe Johnson, 14.0.

And while Johnson is signed for the next four years, and is 31, Smith is signed for this season alone, and is 26. Still, that’s an even bigger advantage than it first appears, since Johnson is signed for cap-crippling money, and Smith, as a Knicks player, can be retained without compromising the team’s cap room, which is largely spent on other players.

Put another way: Johnson is paid like Carmelo Anthony. Smith’s salary is part of what allows the Knicks to employ Anthony, as well as Amar’e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler.

If anything, Smith’s shooting is likely to improve, with both his two and three-point shooting accuracy down from his career norms. The same is true, but to a lesser extent, for Johnson.

Perhaps it is the best way to describe the current state of these two teams, instead of simply looking at the standings, to point out the level of play they are each getting from Smith and Johnson.

JJ is better. He's REALLY good. His contract is Allan Houston like which hurts him image, but the guy is like a 7 time all star or something. As far as value its not a debate (JR blowing him away), but JJ brings more to the table. He just does. Taking NOTHING away from JR who has proved himself here and has really beed a big part of why the Knicks are playing so well.

This season JR is better. Stats wise, clutch gene wise, and dollar for dollar value wise.

JJ is the better all around player, he's just not performing like it this season.

Damn, Joe Johnson went from being compared to Carmelo Anthony, to be compared to Jr Smith.

JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

NUPE wrote:JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

WHICH is why you should NEVER use stats to try and prove an argument

I see guys here constantly flip flop on this. They use stats to try and prove their argument but, then when they totally disagree despite the stats, they cease to matter. (Maybe not yourself but, most here seem guilty of it)

DurzoBlint wrote:

NUPE wrote:JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

WHICH is why you should NEVER use stats to try and prove an argument

I see guys here constantly flip flop on this. They use stats to try and prove their argument but, then when they totally disagree despite the stats, they cease to matter. (Maybe not yourself but, most here seem guilty of it)

Stats help. However, in this scenario, Joe J's stats for his career are far superior to JR's. I won't use 1/4 of this years stats to claim JR is a better player than one that has made the all star game MULTIPLE times. I also don't think JR's stats this season are much better than Joe's.

NUPE wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

NUPE wrote:JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

WHICH is why you should NEVER use stats to try and prove an argument

I see guys here constantly flip flop on this. They use stats to try and prove their argument but, then when they totally disagree despite the stats, they cease to matter. (Maybe not yourself but, most here seem guilty of it)

Stats help. However, in this scenario, Joe J's stats for his career are far superior to JR's. I won't use 1/4 of this years stats to claim JR is a better player than one that has made the all star game MULTIPLE times. I also don't think JR's stats this season are much better than Joe's.

JJ and, to a less extent, D-Will are playing crappy. They would be getting brutalized by the media right now if they played for the Knicks. JJ has had a better career than JR., but it looked like he came into this season out of shape and and Jr has had a better season.

fishmike wrote:JJ is better. He's REALLY good. His contract is Allan Houston like which hurts him image, but the guy is like a 7 time all star or something. As far as value its not a debate (JR blowing him away), but JJ brings more to the table. He just does. Taking NOTHING away from JR who has proved himself here and has really beed a big part of why the Knicks are playing so well.

+1

BigDaddyG wrote:

NUPE wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

NUPE wrote:JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

WHICH is why you should NEVER use stats to try and prove an argument

I see guys here constantly flip flop on this. They use stats to try and prove their argument but, then when they totally disagree despite the stats, they cease to matter. (Maybe not yourself but, most here seem guilty of it)

Stats help. However, in this scenario, Joe J's stats for his career are far superior to JR's. I won't use 1/4 of this years stats to claim JR is a better player than one that has made the all star game MULTIPLE times. I also don't think JR's stats this season are much better than Joe's.

JJ and, to a less extent, D-Will are playing crappy. They would be getting brutalized by the media right now if they played for the Knicks. JJ has had a better career than JR., but it looked like he came into this season out of shape and and Jr has had a better season.

No not really. It was only last week that people on this board were crying about JR's shooting slump.

JJ is shooting better from the field and averaging more points.

JR is not a better player than Joe J. Not at this point and not based on a mere 25 games.

I think JR has the ability to be better than JJ but ability is not quite the same as actuality.

NUPE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NUPE wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

NUPE wrote:JR is not better than Joe Johnson. I don't care what stats say.

WHICH is why you should NEVER use stats to try and prove an argument

I see guys here constantly flip flop on this. They use stats to try and prove their argument but, then when they totally disagree despite the stats, they cease to matter. (Maybe not yourself but, most here seem guilty of it)

Stats help. However, in this scenario, Joe J's stats for his career are far superior to JR's. I won't use 1/4 of this years stats to claim JR is a better player than one that has made the all star game MULTIPLE times. I also don't think JR's stats this season are much better than Joe's.

JJ and, to a less extent, D-Will are playing crappy. They would be getting brutalized by the media right now if they played for the Knicks. JJ has had a better career than JR., but it looked like he came into this season out of shape and and Jr has had a better season.

No not really. It was only last week that people on this board were crying about JR's shooting slump.

JJ is shooting better from the field and averaging more points.

JR is not a better player than Joe J. Not at this point and not based on a mere 25 games.

I think JR has the ability to be better than JJ but ability is not quite the same as actuality.

People have been crying over JJ shooting slump all season. Plus, JJ has the benefit of playing most of his minutes D-Will and offensive center like Brooke. JR usually plays with the second unit and has the burden of carrying those guys offensively. Even if you were to make the case that JJ is playing better, it would be by a slim margin and that's the point. JJ is a max player and All-Star and I don't think he's outplaying our sixth man who is making 1/6th of the money. STAT was under a lot of scrutiny for his play last year, but he was still playing at a higher level than Johnson is this year. Yet Johnson continues to go under the radar. I believe J.R. Smith is playing better than JJ, but it's close. But what about these other 2-guards:OJ Mayo, Ray Allen, Jamal Crawford, Demar Deroza, Kevin Martinn...they're playing better than Joe Johnson too and it's not that close. Johnson is one of the highest paid players in the league and it's debatable if he's even in the top 10 at his own position.

So first, Joe J was supposedly better than Melo and the Knicks were screwed.

Now, Joe J is not even better than JR, according to some.

LoL!

I wouldn't say that J.R is better than Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is one hell of a starting 2G in today's NBA. I just believe J.R Smith is in better position for success when compared to Johnson ala new team, struggling team, doesn't have a true leader in Deron Williams running his offense etc, etc. But, I'm not sure anyone has ever stated that Joe Johnson is more of an elite and/or more talented player when compared to Melo. At least not if they have any basic knowledge of the game of basketbal they wouldn't...I mean, I'm sure they've stated it as a way of harping all over Melo but then again, no fan with any knowledge of the game would ever make such a claim. Good night NY Fan base. Can't wait for tomorrow's game.

NUPE wrote:So first, Joe J was supposedly better than Melo and the Knicks were screwed.

Now, Joe J is not even better than JR, according to some.

LoL!

joe is making franchise player $ and is not close to a franchise player, and never has been.

Thats why when some of you bitch about dolan given amare a 100 mill with no insurance, i wonder do those same ppl, prefer joe or bosh..

Joe's role is similar to his ATL role, not quite the go to guy, but the contrat says he is. In a era where his position is weak through out the league, he fails to dominate night in and night out.

Joe Johnson is performing like a 6th man.

I thought Joe would be good here, I'm so happy the Nyets have to with him and not us.

knicks1248 wrote:

NUPE wrote:So first, Joe J was supposedly better than Melo and the Knicks were screwed.

Now, Joe J is not even better than JR, according to some.

LoL!

joe is making franchise player $ and is not close to a franchise player, and never has been.

Thats why when some of you bitch about dolan given amare a 100 mill with no insurance, i wonder do those same ppl, prefer joe or bosh..

Joe's role is similar to his ATL role, not quite the go to guy, but the contrat says he is. In a era where his position is weak through out the league, he fails to dominate night in and night out.

Yea, I believe the Nets as a franchise are screwed moving forward.

Joe Johnson is due $19,752,645 this year (which is even more than Melo's due this year). Than he's due $21,466,718 next year. $23,180,790 come 2014/2015 and $24,894,863 come 2015/2016.

Once they couldn't land Melo, they made a panic move overpaying for Deron Williams. Deron has never been a franchise player, is a coach killer, has an awful attitude during game night and last but not least? Has never, will never and can never become an actual leader amongst men. It's not in his DNA. He mopes around as long as the situation isn't ideal. Now once they couldn't land Dwight Howard? As a franchise, they crapped the bed with Joe Johnson during yet another 'panic move'.

Kris Humphries being due $12,000,000 this year and $12,000,000 next year is a laughing stock joke in regards to the Nets.

Brook Lopez getting $44,081,000 as a soft big man, over the next 3 years, is pretty funny.

Even Gerald Wallace being paid exactly $40,000,000 over the next 4 years is a joke.

But nothing is worse than Joe Johnson being due $89,295,016 over the next 4 years. An average of $22,323,754 per season for a currently 31 year old player who's only averaging 17 points, 3.7 assists and 2.0 boards per game? Not bad, but for a player who's due $89,295,016 over the next 4 years? It's pathetic.

In short, I believe the Nets future moving forward is going to be very ugly.

Meet The Press

NYKMentality - Joe Johnson is due $19,752,645 this year (which is even more than Melo's due this year). Than he's due $21,466,718 next year. $23,180,790 come 2014/2015 and $24,894,863 come 2015/2016.

Joe Johnson was rarely clutch in Atlanta, during the playoffs, when it counted most. As a one newspaper town, Johnson escaped the scrutiny that multiple media outlets in the New York area will offer.

Johnson has his 2012 rent money. More than six times that of JR Smith's 2.8, for this season. Six.

At 26, JR has already shown that he can take and make the big shot. Not just in Charlotte, but in games when the Knicks needed a big shot to answer a run or hold a lead, Smith has been fearless and rugged.