Knicks · Novak and brewer have been afwul--need to help the team (page 3)

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Anji wrote:Rather address Novak and Brewer in the appropriate setting. But I know went the heart flutters, things like that fall by the waste.

I brought up a valid way Felton can help Novak to get him open (I see no help for Brewer). I used Lin as an example - he played well with Novak. Now, instead of focusing on that part, why not take part in the actual constructive thought? I enjoyed your attempt at poetry though. "when" the heart flutters... and "fall by the wayside" - I think you meant.

haha.. good one..

but I agree with you.... but I said this before.. novak just isn't that good, when not open for threes he is useless... knicks don't push the ball at all, but novak IMO is better in an uptempo game, where the defense is scrambling or not set, he is a killer in those instances... as you said.. LIN pushed the ball, always probing, and for those filled with venom towards lin for some ridiculous reason, it can be any point guard that likes to push and find open men.. we just don't have that at this time..

As far as brewer I said this before, and I will say it again.. HE IS TRASH!

Good point regarding Novak. Though he is still critical with regards to creating space for Melo and others to operate. (e.g. - Like maybe when Stat comes back as well). Felton is great at breaking down defense and driving to the hole. So why doesn't he just get more creative (and smart) with regards to finding (and helping) Novak to get open? We are talking about a top 3 3pt shooter in the league? And because I brought up what Lin did I am ridiculed because of "Guild by Association", which is recockulous.

Copeland can do what Novak does (right now anyway as he has a hot hand) and more - somewhat better defensively, creates his own shot and can block shots on occasion.

I think Brewer has a place defensively, for sure, but offensively, he was just hot earlier. Few if any of us are shocked by his shooting downfall. His minutes are taking a nose dive and this playing under a defensive coach (or one time defensive coach - what has happened here?)

I agree, felton can penetrate, but what you see from felton is what you get, he has been in the league for a while now, felton is what he is, not sure if you are going to get him to change now...

novak is good as a floor spacer, but he also needs Space, to get his shot off, and we have to find ways to do that.. copeland really can't do what novak does, just not that good of a shooter.. actually copeland somewhat irritates me with the way he plays.. he gets the ball and has tunnel vision, he is going to shoot regardless, I am not a fan of that...

you made a good point, novak is a weapon, but we have to be able to utilize that weapon.. teams are not leaving him open tho, the word is out for sure...

Novak is probably the better overall shooter, but Copeland is at 48% on 3 pointers right now. I'd say ride the hot hand. But I'm sure they don't want him to just camp out like Novak does.

Feltons IQ is probably not going to go up, but they can create a few things for him to try (like I stated above). In other words, if the IQ is not there for a certain type of playing, then design plays to semi sort of create that. This is not a knock on Felton, not a lot of PG's in the league, even quite successful ones, would I describe as high IQ players.

So, if Novak is not being left open (AT ALL), we need to get him started. And that falls on the coach, as Novak is pretty helpless getting open.

earthmansurfer wrote:Remember, I think it was during the playoffs?, when the coach created a nice play to free up Novak on a screen. I think there was a moving block in there by Chandler as well (but that was a bit away from the play), but regardless, it was a nice play. Good point on the worst defender covering Novak, actually that hadn't crossed my mind. If Melo and JR (and even Felton) can create their own shots, then why aren't plays being run for Novak? I've long wondered why plays aren't drawn up to free up a top 3pt shooter in the league.

Im not suer which play you're talking about. But it reminds me of Tyson's moving screen to free up Novak against Minnesota last year (that won us the game didnt it?). Kurt did set an off ball screen to get Novak open yesterday early and then there was no more of that.

Novak had the flu and then was being tested for a concussion after the laker game. I think he gets a pass the last couple of games. Not sure about Brrewer. It is either confidence or he came back too soon from his knee surgery.

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Anji wrote:Rather address Novak and Brewer in the appropriate setting. But I know went the heart flutters, things like that fall by the waste.

I brought up a valid way Felton can help Novak to get him open (I see no help for Brewer). I used Lin as an example - he played well with Novak. Now, instead of focusing on that part, why not take part in the actual constructive thought? I enjoyed your attempt at poetry though. "when" the heart flutters... and "fall by the wayside" - I think you meant.

haha.. good one..

but I agree with you.... but I said this before.. novak just isn't that good, when not open for threes he is useless... knicks don't push the ball at all, but novak IMO is better in an uptempo game, where the defense is scrambling or not set, he is a killer in those instances... as you said.. LIN pushed the ball, always probing, and for those filled with venom towards lin for some ridiculous reason, it can be any point guard that likes to push and find open men.. we just don't have that at this time..

As far as brewer I said this before, and I will say it again.. HE IS TRASH!

Good point regarding Novak. Though he is still critical with regards to creating space for Melo and others to operate. (e.g. - Like maybe when Stat comes back as well). Felton is great at breaking down defense and driving to the hole. So why doesn't he just get more creative (and smart) with regards to finding (and helping) Novak to get open? We are talking about a top 3 3pt shooter in the league? And because I brought up what Lin did I am ridiculed because of "Guild by Association", which is recockulous.

Copeland can do what Novak does (right now anyway as he has a hot hand) and more - somewhat better defensively, creates his own shot and can block shots on occasion.

I think Brewer has a place defensively, for sure, but offensively, he was just hot earlier. Few if any of us are shocked by his shooting downfall. His minutes are taking a nose dive and this playing under a defensive coach (or one time defensive coach - what has happened here?)

I agree, felton can penetrate, but what you see from felton is what you get, he has been in the league for a while now, felton is what he is, not sure if you are going to get him to change now...

novak is good as a floor spacer, but he also needs Space, to get his shot off, and we have to find ways to do that.. copeland really can't do what novak does, just not that good of a shooter.. actually copeland somewhat irritates me with the way he plays.. he gets the ball and has tunnel vision, he is going to shoot regardless, I am not a fan of that...

you made a good point, novak is a weapon, but we have to be able to utilize that weapon.. teams are not leaving him open tho, the word is out for sure...

Novak is probably the better overall shooter, but Copeland is at 48% on 3 pointers right now. I'd say ride the hot hand. But I'm sure they don't want him to just camp out like Novak does.

Feltons IQ is probably not going to go up, but they can create a few things for him to try (like I stated above). In other words, if the IQ is not there for a certain type of playing, then design plays to semi sort of create that. This is not a knock on Felton, not a lot of PG's in the league, even quite successful ones, would I describe as high IQ players.

So, if Novak is not being left open (AT ALL), we need to get him started. And that falls on the coach, as Novak is pretty helpless getting open.

GOOD POINT, but do you really have that kind of faith in woodson?

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Anji wrote:Rather address Novak and Brewer in the appropriate setting. But I know went the heart flutters, things like that fall by the waste.

I brought up a valid way Felton can help Novak to get him open (I see no help for Brewer). I used Lin as an example - he played well with Novak. Now, instead of focusing on that part, why not take part in the actual constructive thought? I enjoyed your attempt at poetry though. "when" the heart flutters... and "fall by the wayside" - I think you meant.

haha.. good one..

but I agree with you.... but I said this before.. novak just isn't that good, when not open for threes he is useless... knicks don't push the ball at all, but novak IMO is better in an uptempo game, where the defense is scrambling or not set, he is a killer in those instances... as you said.. LIN pushed the ball, always probing, and for those filled with venom towards lin for some ridiculous reason, it can be any point guard that likes to push and find open men.. we just don't have that at this time..

As far as brewer I said this before, and I will say it again.. HE IS TRASH!

Good point regarding Novak. Though he is still critical with regards to creating space for Melo and others to operate. (e.g. - Like maybe when Stat comes back as well). Felton is great at breaking down defense and driving to the hole. So why doesn't he just get more creative (and smart) with regards to finding (and helping) Novak to get open? We are talking about a top 3 3pt shooter in the league? And because I brought up what Lin did I am ridiculed because of "Guild by Association", which is recockulous.

Copeland can do what Novak does (right now anyway as he has a hot hand) and more - somewhat better defensively, creates his own shot and can block shots on occasion.

I think Brewer has a place defensively, for sure, but offensively, he was just hot earlier. Few if any of us are shocked by his shooting downfall. His minutes are taking a nose dive and this playing under a defensive coach (or one time defensive coach - what has happened here?)

I agree, felton can penetrate, but what you see from felton is what you get, he has been in the league for a while now, felton is what he is, not sure if you are going to get him to change now...

novak is good as a floor spacer, but he also needs Space, to get his shot off, and we have to find ways to do that.. copeland really can't do what novak does, just not that good of a shooter.. actually copeland somewhat irritates me with the way he plays.. he gets the ball and has tunnel vision, he is going to shoot regardless, I am not a fan of that...

you made a good point, novak is a weapon, but we have to be able to utilize that weapon.. teams are not leaving him open tho, the word is out for sure...

Novak is probably the better overall shooter, but Copeland is at 48% on 3 pointers right now. I'd say ride the hot hand. But I'm sure they don't want him to just camp out like Novak does.

Feltons IQ is probably not going to go up, but they can create a few things for him to try (like I stated above). In other words, if the IQ is not there for a certain type of playing, then design plays to semi sort of create that. This is not a knock on Felton, not a lot of PG's in the league, even quite successful ones, would I describe as high IQ players.

So, if Novak is not being left open (AT ALL), we need to get him started. And that falls on the coach, as Novak is pretty helpless getting open.

GOOD POINT, but do you really have that kind of faith in woodson?

Yep.

Well good news is Shump and Amare will be back eventually so the depth of this team will grow. Wont matter if someone isnt playing well next man up

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Anji wrote:Rather address Novak and Brewer in the appropriate setting. But I know went the heart flutters, things like that fall by the waste.

I brought up a valid way Felton can help Novak to get him open (I see no help for Brewer). I used Lin as an example - he played well with Novak. Now, instead of focusing on that part, why not take part in the actual constructive thought? I enjoyed your attempt at poetry though. "when" the heart flutters... and "fall by the wayside" - I think you meant.

haha.. good one..

but I agree with you.... but I said this before.. novak just isn't that good, when not open for threes he is useless... knicks don't push the ball at all, but novak IMO is better in an uptempo game, where the defense is scrambling or not set, he is a killer in those instances... as you said.. LIN pushed the ball, always probing, and for those filled with venom towards lin for some ridiculous reason, it can be any point guard that likes to push and find open men.. we just don't have that at this time..

As far as brewer I said this before, and I will say it again.. HE IS TRASH!

Good point regarding Novak. Though he is still critical with regards to creating space for Melo and others to operate. (e.g. - Like maybe when Stat comes back as well). Felton is great at breaking down defense and driving to the hole. So why doesn't he just get more creative (and smart) with regards to finding (and helping) Novak to get open? We are talking about a top 3 3pt shooter in the league? And because I brought up what Lin did I am ridiculed because of "Guild by Association", which is recockulous.

Copeland can do what Novak does (right now anyway as he has a hot hand) and more - somewhat better defensively, creates his own shot and can block shots on occasion.

I think Brewer has a place defensively, for sure, but offensively, he was just hot earlier. Few if any of us are shocked by his shooting downfall. His minutes are taking a nose dive and this playing under a defensive coach (or one time defensive coach - what has happened here?)

I agree, felton can penetrate, but what you see from felton is what you get, he has been in the league for a while now, felton is what he is, not sure if you are going to get him to change now...

novak is good as a floor spacer, but he also needs Space, to get his shot off, and we have to find ways to do that.. copeland really can't do what novak does, just not that good of a shooter.. actually copeland somewhat irritates me with the way he plays.. he gets the ball and has tunnel vision, he is going to shoot regardless, I am not a fan of that...

you made a good point, novak is a weapon, but we have to be able to utilize that weapon.. teams are not leaving him open tho, the word is out for sure...

Novak is probably the better overall shooter, but Copeland is at 48% on 3 pointers right now. I'd say ride the hot hand. But I'm sure they don't want him to just camp out like Novak does.

Feltons IQ is probably not going to go up, but they can create a few things for him to try (like I stated above). In other words, if the IQ is not there for a certain type of playing, then design plays to semi sort of create that. This is not a knock on Felton, not a lot of PG's in the league, even quite successful ones, would I describe as high IQ players.

So, if Novak is not being left open (AT ALL), we need to get him started. And that falls on the coach, as Novak is pretty helpless getting open.

GOOD POINT, but do you really have that kind of faith in woodson?

I am mixed on the coach. I don't understand how he has let the defense slip so much. He is a tough read in a way.
I just think he is content to let Novak sit there and it makes zero sense.

If your team is having injury problems and you mostly keep running things the same way, I don't see how you are going to get better results.

I also am a bit mixed on how he has used Copeland. I know Copeland is not great defensively, but when the offense is struggling, Novak is not getting open, Brewers shot isn't falling and he isn't getting minutes and Felton is that banged up, I think it might be better to get the sure points with Cope.

So, I really don't know about the coach, I do like him though. But the magic he had last year and this year with the team defensively is GONE.

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Anji wrote:Rather address Novak and Brewer in the appropriate setting. But I know went the heart flutters, things like that fall by the waste.

I brought up a valid way Felton can help Novak to get him open (I see no help for Brewer). I used Lin as an example - he played well with Novak. Now, instead of focusing on that part, why not take part in the actual constructive thought? I enjoyed your attempt at poetry though. "when" the heart flutters... and "fall by the wayside" - I think you meant.

haha.. good one..

but I agree with you.... but I said this before.. novak just isn't that good, when not open for threes he is useless... knicks don't push the ball at all, but novak IMO is better in an uptempo game, where the defense is scrambling or not set, he is a killer in those instances... as you said.. LIN pushed the ball, always probing, and for those filled with venom towards lin for some ridiculous reason, it can be any point guard that likes to push and find open men.. we just don't have that at this time..

As far as brewer I said this before, and I will say it again.. HE IS TRASH!

Good point regarding Novak. Though he is still critical with regards to creating space for Melo and others to operate. (e.g. - Like maybe when Stat comes back as well). Felton is great at breaking down defense and driving to the hole. So why doesn't he just get more creative (and smart) with regards to finding (and helping) Novak to get open? We are talking about a top 3 3pt shooter in the league? And because I brought up what Lin did I am ridiculed because of "Guild by Association", which is recockulous.

Copeland can do what Novak does (right now anyway as he has a hot hand) and more - somewhat better defensively, creates his own shot and can block shots on occasion.

I think Brewer has a place defensively, for sure, but offensively, he was just hot earlier. Few if any of us are shocked by his shooting downfall. His minutes are taking a nose dive and this playing under a defensive coach (or one time defensive coach - what has happened here?)

I agree, felton can penetrate, but what you see from felton is what you get, he has been in the league for a while now, felton is what he is, not sure if you are going to get him to change now...

novak is good as a floor spacer, but he also needs Space, to get his shot off, and we have to find ways to do that.. copeland really can't do what novak does, just not that good of a shooter.. actually copeland somewhat irritates me with the way he plays.. he gets the ball and has tunnel vision, he is going to shoot regardless, I am not a fan of that...

you made a good point, novak is a weapon, but we have to be able to utilize that weapon.. teams are not leaving him open tho, the word is out for sure...

Novak is probably the better overall shooter, but Copeland is at 48% on 3 pointers right now. I'd say ride the hot hand. But I'm sure they don't want him to just camp out like Novak does.

Feltons IQ is probably not going to go up, but they can create a few things for him to try (like I stated above). In other words, if the IQ is not there for a certain type of playing, then design plays to semi sort of create that. This is not a knock on Felton, not a lot of PG's in the league, even quite successful ones, would I describe as high IQ players.

So, if Novak is not being left open (AT ALL), we need to get him started. And that falls on the coach, as Novak is pretty helpless getting open.

GOOD POINT, but do you really have that kind of faith in woodson?

I am mixed on the coach. I don't understand how he has let the defense slip so much. He is a tough read in a way.
I just think he is content to let Novak sit there and it makes zero sense.

If your team is having injury problems and you mostly keep running things the same way, I don't see how you are going to get better results.

I also am a bit mixed on how he has used Copeland. I know Copeland is not great defensively, but when the offense is struggling, Novak is not getting open, Brewers shot isn't falling and he isn't getting minutes and Felton is that banged up, I think it might be better to get the sure points with Cope.

So, I really don't know about the coach, I do like him though. But the magic he had last year and this year with the team defensively is GONE.

woodson has a problem with "favorites" and letting them do what they want to do and having a short leash with others... He has no problem letting JR smith and melo go "ham".... he also had a problem reigning in Iso joe here in atlanta as well...

I have my concerns with him for sure...

tkf makes a good point about Novak getting open looks off transition. We ran more last year which opened up the floor for Novak. This year, we play at much slower yet more efficient pace, which has caused Novak to get smothered in the halfcourt.

Novak is what he is, a spot up shooter. He's not the type of player to run off screens, catch, square up and fire immediately. We've actually seen Novak rush his shots a bit more this year and has been way off. Instead of placing all the blame on Felton for not getting him open looks or even Woodson to an extent, how about giving credit to the Defense for having him well scouted and crowding him at the 3pt line? How about looking over Novaks career and just accepting that he is a one dimensional journeymen? Novaks never been a guy you run off flex screens for quick 3's. He'll make the defense pay when they have some mental lapses on the court be he's no longer not included on the scouting report

BRIGGS wrote:Last 5 games Novak 4-18 averaging less than 3 points

last 8 Brewer 4-22 avg less than 3 points

Agreed on both fronts.

While I love it when Novak gets hot --- if its that easy to take you out of a game (by simply sticking to you) I'm not sure you're that good. Novak needs to learn (work on) cutting once in awhile and making defenses pay for the over-play.

I loved the Brewer addition but he looks heavy to me and has been largely dissapointing --- I wasn't expecting much offensively but he's been worse than expected. He has also been dissapointing defensively --- looks like classic case of a guy letting his bad shooting effect him on the other end.

Here's a trade thought ---- Denver is getting nothing out of Wilson Chandler.

How about Novak for Ill-Will? He supposedly has a bad hip but I get the feeling he isn't thrilled with the contract Denver forced him into.

Or move Novak for a legit back-up PG. Not sold on Prigs because he can't get into the lane without 3-4 picks and don't want to force J-Kidd into too many minutes at the point. Trade Novak for an athletic BIG or a solid penetrating back-up PG.

Uptown wrote:tkf makes a good point about Novak getting open looks off transition. We ran more last year which opened up the floor for Novak. This year, we play at much slower yet more efficient pace, which has caused Novak to get smothered in the halfcourt.

Novak is what he is, a spot up shooter. He's not the type of player to run off screens, catch, square up and fire immediately. We've actually seen Novak rush his shots a bit more this year and has been way off. Instead of placing all the blame on Felton for not getting him open looks or even Woodson to an extent, how about giving credit to the Defense for having him well scouted and crowding him at the 3pt line? How about looking over Novaks career and just accepting that he is a one dimensional journeymen? Novaks never been a guy you run off flex screens for quick 3's. He'll make the defense pay when they have some mental lapses on the court be he's no longer not included on the scouting report

excellent point.... I think that novak may be better on a team that pushes the ball a lot.. denver and Houston, even the warriors come to mind...

I think that the only way Novak is gonna get shots at this point is when Melo goes ISO in the post and actually passes out of the double team.

Trade Novak to Houston. Problem Solved. At least for Knicks, the problem is solved but for the Rockets, Novak/Lin = The Dynamic Duo will be back together again.

Syniko wrote:Trade Novak to Houston. Problem Solved. At least for Knicks, the problem is solved but for the Rockets, Novak/Lin = The Dynamic Duo will be back together again.

Lol,your infatuation with Lin is borderline creepy.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Syniko wrote:Trade Novak to Houston. Problem Solved. At least for Knicks, the problem is solved but for the Rockets, Novak/Lin = The Dynamic Duo will be back together again.

Lol,your infatuation with Lin is borderline creepy.

Lin is a clown.