Knicks · Who is the better overall player - JR Smith or Nets G.Wallace (page 1)

helloharv @ 1/4/2013 11:03 AM
I am having a debate with a co-worker. He thinks Wallace is better and I think JR has matured and is playing better than him and in a perrfect world---would get the samre contract Wallace did in the off-season.

what say you ?

IronWillGiroud @ 1/4/2013 11:13 AM
Is this a sick joke? JR Swagnuts all the way. G Wallace is a bum
gunsnewing @ 1/4/2013 11:18 AM
JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though
IronWillGiroud @ 1/4/2013 11:28 AM
gunsnewing wrote:JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though

I hope we do lose him,

Guy that shows up in contract year is a huge red flag, I guarantee that JR will come down to earth as soon as the ink dries on the fat deal,

Loving the ride this year, enjoying the crazy dunks and game winning shots, but we shouldn't be the team to pay him big money

MSG3 @ 1/4/2013 11:35 AM
gunsnewing wrote:JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though

How can we be so sure we're going to lose him if we have his early bird rights? Can someone explain how us losing him would be out of our control?

ChuckBuck @ 1/4/2013 11:38 AM
I like JR, and I hope he retires a Knick if anyway possible. Gerald Wallace is versatile and a nice role player...JR can impact the game in 1 or 2 plays. Besides the obvious ridiculous dunk in the 4th, that run down block of Gary Neal was a game changer.

Woodson found his surrogate son and reclamation project, and vice versa with Earl Smith Jr.

He's a local kid that had some bad history, bad raps, bad behavior etc.

People need second chances in life, why not JR and why not on the Knicks?

gunsnewing @ 1/4/2013 11:41 AM
MSG3 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though

How can we be so sure we're going to lose him if we have his early bird rights? Can someone explain how us losing him would be out of our control?

The early bird rights allow us to offer up to $5mil despite being over the cap. Someone will offer him $7,8, 10mil and he will be gone

JR is an unrestricted free agent. It's not the same early bird rights we had for Lin and Novak who were restricted. They were picked up off of waivers which gave us the right to match any deal

cooch2584 @ 1/4/2013 12:23 PM
Just my opinion, but I think JR stays here because Woody gave him a new life. Cant imagine another team for ex GS and mark jackson trying to rein in JR,just an example. You tell me who Jr could look up to other than Woody?
cooch2584 @ 1/4/2013 12:25 PM
Oh by the way, wallace/crash is just that crash and burn. He cant score like JR, and cant get the crowd going like JR. I understand crashes defense but to me thats all he has. Id take JR all week and twice on sundays over crash.
Nalod @ 1/4/2013 12:27 PM

Apples vs. Oranges.

Way different players, positions, role, contract, character.

Jr. is better than Marshon Brooks is the closer arguement if any.

ChuckBuck @ 1/4/2013 12:37 PM
Nalod wrote:
Apples vs. Oranges.

Way different players, positions, role, contract, character.

Jr. is better than Marshon Brooks is the closer arguement if any.

Jr, if he averaged 2 more points, would be in the All Star team discussion, let alone front runner for 6th man of the year(sorry Jamal).

So yea apples and oranges. Crash Wallace is not even in the discussion, JR is leaps and bounds above Crash as a player right now.

Anji @ 1/4/2013 1:30 PM
Crash would be great on the Knicks, he and J smith have different roles.
gunsnewing @ 1/4/2013 2:04 PM
and one is a scoring SG who can defend a little the other is a defensive SF who can score a little. Like Nalod apples & oranges
RonRon @ 1/4/2013 3:06 PM
interesting comparison/debate
I think they can be compared in some way, in term's of their value to their team's respectively
but
hard to compare vs each other

Wallace and the trade
---------------------------


Wallace plays more SF/PF and during his younger years could easily defend 4 positions aside from Center
There simply isn't anyone that can defend Lebron better than Wallace in the draft
MKG and Barnes, maybe are the best defenders at the position but neither has the ability to play some PF
I think it was a great trade by both team's considering their positions

Damian Lillard is a complete steal as, he will likely win ROY *possibly with Davis together at best as CO-ROYS*, but Net's had "Deron" in their mind and NOT rebuilding
Drummond is going to take a 2-3 years to develop but I am very surprised he was not drafted higher due to his potential
Now looking at it, *which is impossible to predit* if they did could get back considerably "fair" value for one of the TOP rated All Star PG's
King's made 2 huge mistakes, taking Thomas, over Lilliard/Drummond that is similar in potential/ceiling/size with Jason Thompson
They are 2 complete different players that could have changed the fate of the King's in last year's draft
Had King's not picked him, he would have most likely reminded me of how Jordan Hill dropped in his draft

JR Smith, the Knick's, and Smith's value/comparison's
----------------------------------------------------------

Smith plays SG/SF but actually play's some PG too for us this year

He has completely elevated his game and could defend 3 positions with PG/SG being his advantages
Smith offensively is somewhere between Jason Terry/Lou Williams/Crawfords/OJ Mayo but with much better DEFENSE and that is why he should get payed much more than them

but


Defensively, this year, and his improvements in facilitating/creating for other's should earn him a big raise with some serious All Star votes for the first time of his career
Nicholas Battum, although plays the same positoin in SG/SF and is a player with much more size/length, is another player that can get some comparisions on some ways
It is very likely that we would not be able to come close to retaining Smith with 5m to offer, especially since Smith has never got a big contract and he is playing the best he ever has in his entire career
Is he just going to be this consistent like this for his following years or is he closer to a 1 year stint during his contract year?
Time will tell, but, someone will pay him 8-12m per year, depending on the size of the contract, because of all the FA's in 2015, some teams might not want to give him that many years

For all the people that are saying that JR Smith would be over payed if over 5-6m per year, are not basing it on what he has accomplished this year but his previous years
JR Smith will get serious consideration in the All Star game this year and that says a lot to his production this year
Whether he continues to play at this level and how he plays in the play offs/with how far the Knick's go, are going to be the final factors of his next contract

What exactly is over paying? Is Melo, *especially if he opts out 1 year earlier in 2014 summer* going to worth a Joe Johnson extension at about 25m per year for 130m for 5 years?
This would cripple us financially, our flexibility, and FA's that we can put together in 2015
As great as Melo is playing, he is not worth that type of money and commitment, and that is the difference between Lebron/Durant vs Melo
I would much rather have Rudy Gay at a starting salary of about 15m than a 25m in Melo

cooch2584 @ 1/4/2013 3:13 PM
RonRon wrote:interesting comparison/debate
I think they can be compared in some way, in term's of their value to their team's respectively
but
hard to compare vs each other

Wallace and the trade
---------------------------


Wallace plays more SF/PF and during his younger years could easily defend 4 positions aside from Center
There simply isn't anyone that can defend Lebron better than Wallace in the draft
MKG and Barnes, maybe are the best defenders at the position but neither has the ability to play some PF
I think it was a great trade by both team's considering their positions

Damian Lillard is a complete steal as, he will likely win ROY *possibly with Davis together at best as CO-ROYS*, but Net's had "Deron" in their mind and NOT rebuilding
Drummond is going to take a 2-3 years to develop but I am very surprised he was not drafted higher due to his potential
Now looking at it, *which is impossible to predit* if they did could get back considerably "fair" value for one of the TOP rated All Star PG's
King's made 2 huge mistakes, taking Thomas, over Lilliard/Drummond that is similar in potential/ceiling/size with Jason Thompson
They are 2 complete different players that could have changed the fate of the King's in last year's draft
Had King's not picked him, he would have most likely reminded me of how Jordan Hill dropped in his draft

JR Smith, the Knick's, and Smith's value/comparison's
----------------------------------------------------------

Smith plays SG/SF but actually play's some PG too for us this year

He has completely elevated his game and could defend 3 positions with PG/SG being his advantages
Smith offensively is somewhere between Jason Terry/Lou Williams/Crawfords/OJ Mayo but with much better DEFENSE and that is why he should get payed much more than them

but


Defensively, this year, and his improvements in facilitating/creating for other's should earn him a big raise with some serious All Star votes for the first time of his career
Nicholas Battum, although plays the same positoin in SG/SF and is a player with much more size/length, is another player that can get some comparisions on some ways
It is very likely that we would not be able to come close to retaining Smith with 5m to offer, especially since Smith has never got a big contract and he is playing the best he ever has in his entire career
Is he just going to be this consistent like this for his following years or is he closer to a 1 year stint during his contract year?
Time will tell, but, someone will pay him 8-12m per year, depending on the size of the contract, because of all the FA's in 2015, some teams might not want to give him that many years

For all the people that are saying that JR Smith would be over payed if over 5-6m per year, are not basing it on what he has accomplished this year but his previous years
JR Smith will get serious consideration in the All Star game this year and that says a lot to his production this year
Whether he continues to play at this level and how he plays in the play offs/with how far the Knick's go, are going to be the final factors of his next contract

What exactly is over paying? Is Melo, *especially if he opts out 1 year earlier in 2014 summer* going to worth a Joe Johnson extension at about 25m per year for 130m for 5 years?
This would cripple us financially, our flexibility, and FA's that we can put together in 2015
As great as Melo is playing, he is not worth that type of money and commitment, and that is the difference between Lebron/Durant vs Melo
I would much rather have Rudy Gay at a starting salary of about 15m than a 25m in Melo

RUDY GAY??REALLY?? That made my juice come right thru my nose. RUDY GAY?? WOW

DurzoBlint @ 1/4/2013 3:13 PM
JR Smith has one of the most complete games I have ever seen. At least the Knicks version of JR does.

Scoring: Big Ass CHECK
Rebounding: Better than average CHECK
Passing: Better than Average CHECK
Defense: Big Ass CHECK

The only players with a more complete game than JR are the most elite in the league and he has a more complete game than some of them. I will even say he has a more complete game than Melo.

Gerald Wallace is a good player, a good defender but, his game is FAR from complete.

CrushAlot @ 1/4/2013 9:13 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though

How can we be so sure we're going to lose him if we have his early bird rights? Can someone explain how us losing him would be out of our control?

The early bird rights allow us to offer up to $5mil despite being over the cap. Someone will offer him $7,8, 10mil and he will be gone

JR is an unrestricted free agent. It's not the same early bird rights we had for Lin and Novak who were restricted. They were picked up off of waivers which gave us the right to match any deal

Knicks might match. Most teams don't have the ability to offer a 'poison pill' year like Houston did. Also, JR's brother Chris is still around the Knicks all the time. I think it might be a package deal but I expect JR back. Cope and Prigs maybe gone after this year.
CrushAlot @ 1/4/2013 9:14 PM
I love both guys. Wallace would be a great Knick.
Bonn1997 @ 1/4/2013 9:33 PM
JR has the talent to be a much better player than Wallace but not the shot-selection. I'd call it a draw. That said, JR's contract is far better than Wallace's.
gunsnewing @ 1/5/2013 3:02 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:JR because of his contract. We will probably lose JR in the offseason though

How can we be so sure we're going to lose him if we have his early bird rights? Can someone explain how us losing him would be out of our control?

The early bird rights allow us to offer up to $5mil despite being over the cap. Someone will offer him $7,8, 10mil and he will be gone

JR is an unrestricted free agent. It's not the same early bird rights we had for Lin and Novak who were restricted. They were picked up off of waivers which gave us the right to match any deal

Knicks might match. Most teams don't have the ability to offer a 'poison pill' year like Houston did. Also, JR's brother Chris is still around the Knicks all the time. I think it might be a package deal but I expect JR back. Cope and Prigs maybe gone after this year.

Knicks can match only up to $5.5mil. JR will be unrestricted

Anji @ 1/5/2013 3:28 AM
Knicks can't match anything, JR Smith isn't going to be getting offer sheets.

I think the knicks and JR will come to an understanding.

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