Knicks · GAME THREAD: KNICKS @ PACERS 8 PM TNT - Time to Start Another Winning Streak (page 22)
NYDiva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:NYDiva wrote:JR was 10-29 tonight. JR kept chucking away when he absolutely did not have it. JR's play was detrimental to the team tonight. So I have every reason to be critical of him. He is certainly not above this.Having him come off the bench keeps him in the 'energizer/instant offense' role that usually works for the team. He can be the focus of the offense vs an opponent's second unit and score off of those guys. But he should not be starting - he is too erratic & still lacks the discipline to make smarter decisions offensively when his shot is off. Thankfully, it appears that Woodson agrees with me.
Really? Woodspn said JR took good shots. He allowed Smith to run the offense. I think Woodson's offensive philosophy is part of the problem
Yet he keeps him on the bench. Seems to think he best belongs there. Which means he agrees with me, no? If he didn't, he'd be starting JR. Seems like simple enough logic.
oh right absolutely. Woodson's offensive philosophy might be shaky but he is not stupid
Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
Clean wrote:I am not exactly sure who else you wanted to take JR's shots. No one else could do anything but dribble around aimlessly.
Prigs pick and roll with Amare/Tyson and drive and kick to Kidd and Novak
gunsnewing wrote:Clean wrote:I am not exactly sure who else you wanted to take JR's shots. No one else could do anything but dribble around aimlessly.Prigs pick and roll with Amare/Tyson and drive and kick to Kidd and Novak
Those thing you said don't work becasue our PGs are to slow to break down the D. This is why all those easy Chandler dunks we loved when felton was here is not happening as much. Felton could drive to the hoop to draw in the D, kidd has 0 chance to do that and prigs is able to do it like once or twice a game.
NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.
IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
StarksEwing1 wrote:The Knicks are starting to fall apart. Thank god we got off to an epic start of the season but we have been prett mediore for close to a month now. I dont make excuses about injuries because every team has tough injuries
name the team with injuries that are comparable to ours, and post their records please.
sebstar wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:The Knicks are starting to fall apart. Thank god we got off to an epic start of the season but we have been prett mediore for close to a month now. I dont make excuses about injuries because every team has tough injuriesname the team with injuries that are comparable to ours, and post their records please.
Exactly, Melo been playing through injuries, Amare is working himself back, still haven't seen our starting backcourt (felton and Shump) and now Felton is out along with shump, No Sheed, Camby still trying to get into game shape, Brewer playing through knee problems, which he will probably get surgery in the off season, and Kidd playing way more mins than expected
And you guys have the nerve to complain because we are 23-12 ... WOW!!!!! Guess what, Miami been healthy this year and is 23-11. Besides, look at our schedule until March ... we will be fine. Hate that our team is unable to go through a rough patch without being turned on by fans, especially when injuries are playing a huge part in it.
Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
Good Morning
Even though I knew where you were going, it wasn't clear and makes zero sense.
Our guards were tripping over themselves to get the ball back to Jr in the half court because they can't beat anybody off the dribble, but you felt it was important to point out this why JR shouldn't start??? While Woodson is riding for 40 minutes against the number 1 D in the league???
Knicks give up 19 Plus points on turnovers, 5 of which from Kidd the great, but Jr's 10-29 is the critical play of concern??? *Shrugs*
What is unclear about the fact that I simply believe that JR is best utilized off the bench rather than as a starter? I gave my reasons why; you don't agree. Coaching staff does. That is the end of the subject on this as far as I'm concerned.
Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
Good MorningEven though I knew where you were going, it wasn't clear and makes zero sense.
Our guards were tripping over themselves to get the ball back to Jr in the half court because they can't beat anybody off the dribble, but you felt it was important to point out this why JR shouldn't start??? While Woodson is riding for 40 minutes against the number 1 D in the league???
Knicks give up 19 Plus points on turnovers, 5 of which from Kidd the great, but Jr's 10-29 is the critical play of concern??? *Shrugs*
jr shouldn't start because he needs the ball in his hands and he is a shoot first player. that's not a good player to have as your starter when you already have two other players who do pretty much the same thing. plus he doesn't draw enough fouls realtive to the number of shots he takes. drawing fouls is what solid starters do more than bench players. where he would be able to earn some genuine minutes is to become more of a harden-type player or a manu-type player. someone who is a playmaker for others, who gets to the line. these are guys whose games smith actually has the potential to emulate. last night his game was closer to hardened manure.
NYDiva wrote:Wasn't aware that I was required to address all of the Knicks issues last night, b/c I dared to criticize JR's 10-29 shooting performance. But, yes, 19+ points on turnovers is concerning. I expressed earlier in the thread that the team is missing Felton. Kidd just doesn't have the legs to play the kind of minutes he is.What is unclear about the fact that I simply believe that JR is best utilized off the bench rather than as a starter? I gave my reasons why; you don't agree. Coaching staff does. That is the end of the subject on this as far as I'm concerned.
I never said anybody is required to do anything, all I said was how does tonight show why JR shouldn't start???
dk7th wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
Good MorningEven though I knew where you were going, it wasn't clear and makes zero sense.
Our guards were tripping over themselves to get the ball back to Jr in the half court because they can't beat anybody off the dribble, but you felt it was important to point out this why JR shouldn't start??? While Woodson is riding for 40 minutes against the number 1 D in the league???
Knicks give up 19 Plus points on turnovers, 5 of which from Kidd the great, but Jr's 10-29 is the critical play of concern??? *Shrugs*
jr shouldn't start because he needs the ball in his hands and he is a shoot first player. that's not a good player to have as your starter when you already have two other players who do pretty much the same thing. plus he doesn't draw enough fouls realtive to the number of shots he takes. drawing fouls is what solid starters do more than bench players. where he would be able to earn some genuine minutes is to become more of a harden-type player or a manu-type player. someone who is a playmaker for others, who gets to the line. these are guys whose games smith actually has the potential to emulate. last night his game was closer to hardened manure.
There is no assist to free throw starter ratio and who is the other shoot first starter that needs the ball in his hands??? Not that I agree JR is a gunner only this season.
He is the best all round guard the knicks have right now, no team should sit that player for the specialist. He has effected the game with his rebounding, assists, and defense every game, what team benches that guard for Brewer or even overrated Kidd??
Once Camby left there was not any other player actively trying on O
Trade deadline fast approaching too.
Anji wrote:dk7th wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
Good MorningEven though I knew where you were going, it wasn't clear and makes zero sense.
Our guards were tripping over themselves to get the ball back to Jr in the half court because they can't beat anybody off the dribble, but you felt it was important to point out this why JR shouldn't start??? While Woodson is riding for 40 minutes against the number 1 D in the league???
Knicks give up 19 Plus points on turnovers, 5 of which from Kidd the great, but Jr's 10-29 is the critical play of concern??? *Shrugs*
jr shouldn't start because he needs the ball in his hands and he is a shoot first player. that's not a good player to have as your starter when you already have two other players who do pretty much the same thing. plus he doesn't draw enough fouls realtive to the number of shots he takes. drawing fouls is what solid starters do more than bench players. where he would be able to earn some genuine minutes is to become more of a harden-type player or a manu-type player. someone who is a playmaker for others, who gets to the line. these are guys whose games smith actually has the potential to emulate. last night his game was closer to hardened manure.
There is no assist to free throw starter ratio and who is the other shoot first starter that needs the ball in his hands??? Not that I agree JR is a gunner only this season.He is the best all round guard the knicks have right now, no team should sit that player for the specialist. He has effected the game with his rebounding, assists, and defense every game, what team benches that guard for Brewer or even overrated Kidd??
you can't have jr sharing the floor with carmelo AND felton. it would be subtraction by addition. same exact thing in okc with harden westbrook and durant. there's just so many shots to go around and harden is incomparably better than smith. his best role is a as a playmaker and scorer off he bench, and in that order.
dk7th wrote:Anji wrote:dk7th wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:NYDiva wrote:Anji wrote:Woody doesn't agree with you, he wants the offense to run through JR's hands every second Melo is off the court. You can call it "energizer/instant offense" or what ever, but JR spends about 15 minutes as the top gun in ever game we play.To say that he is too erratic to be that guy, while he every game for about a quarter and anytime we are without Melo (injury/foul/spen) is speaking out both sides off your mouth.
He would be better living off of the play off Melo and our pick and roll IMO. That would be the 3rd option.
I'm thinking the bold is some kind of typo but I can't figure out your point there. Can you clarify? Not sure how I'm supposedly speaking out both sides of my mouth? I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
Overall, I am okay with JR. But he's not a perfect player, he can certainly be erratic, and I think it's okay to be critical of his play after he goes 10-29 in a game. *shrugs*
And JR showed tonight why he shouldn't start. He is great off the bench but when the O focuses on him too much, he goes into straight Chucky Smith mode. Not pretty.
I'm pretty clear on the fact that I think JR is best utilized off the bench and as the focal point of the offense vs the opposing team's second unit.
How is this pretty clear???
Anyway, my point is every game JR Smith is expected to go chuck Smith as the number option for about 15 of his 32 minutes he plays or just over a quarter. I don't see how this game shows he shouldn't start when all 32 of his minutes as a starter would be spent as the third option. It's being critical without even staying on point, what happened in today's game would more likely happen with JR coming off the bench being the number 1 option, than having to work off of Melo and the TC/Felton pick and roll.IE) He spends more time as the teams number 1 coming of the bench versus starting.
I think it's VERY clear what my point is about JR. I really don't know how I can make myself any more clear. Any further statements would lead to [even more] of a repetitive, circular argument.
Bottom line, you think JR should start despite his erratic tendencies. I don't. I think he's best off the bench. The coaching staff appears to agree with me. There you have it. G'night.
Good MorningEven though I knew where you were going, it wasn't clear and makes zero sense.
Our guards were tripping over themselves to get the ball back to Jr in the half court because they can't beat anybody off the dribble, but you felt it was important to point out this why JR shouldn't start??? While Woodson is riding for 40 minutes against the number 1 D in the league???
Knicks give up 19 Plus points on turnovers, 5 of which from Kidd the great, but Jr's 10-29 is the critical play of concern??? *Shrugs*
jr shouldn't start because he needs the ball in his hands and he is a shoot first player. that's not a good player to have as your starter when you already have two other players who do pretty much the same thing. plus he doesn't draw enough fouls realtive to the number of shots he takes. drawing fouls is what solid starters do more than bench players. where he would be able to earn some genuine minutes is to become more of a harden-type player or a manu-type player. someone who is a playmaker for others, who gets to the line. these are guys whose games smith actually has the potential to emulate. last night his game was closer to hardened manure.
There is no assist to free throw starter ratio and who is the other shoot first starter that needs the ball in his hands??? Not that I agree JR is a gunner only this season.He is the best all round guard the knicks have right now, no team should sit that player for the specialist. He has effected the game with his rebounding, assists, and defense every game, what team benches that guard for Brewer or even overrated Kidd??
you can't have jr sharing the floor with carmelo AND felton. it would be subtraction by addition. same exact thing in okc with harden westbrook and durant. there's just so many shots to go around and harden is incomparably better than smith. his best role is a as a playmaker and scorer off he bench, and in that order.
Actually Jr best role is off the ball as a catch and shoot player and secondary ball handler.
Clean wrote:I am not exactly sure who else you wanted to take JR's shots. No one else could do anything but dribble around aimlessly.
he has shown flashes of playmaking but because his first impulse is to shoot/chuck he misses opportunities. i think you have it backwards-- so far as others dribbling around aimlessly, maybe if jr cut back on dribbling around aimlessly only to put up a shot instead of finding those teammates we would be better off. if he is going to have the ball in his hands most of the time he has to try and do that. 10 fewer shots and a combination of 5 more trips to the line and 5 more assists is what is required of him in these circumstances.
if he shows flashes of x it behooves him to do more of x.