I'd also like to make the recommendation whoever starts the next game thread stop always trying to feature Melo in the thread title or initial post.
nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame. Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.
IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.
I know WTF i'm talking about. They're making STAT play in a crowd when they don't have to. You F'n spread the damn floor, swing the ball quickly and get him some really solid low post possessions. This is just common F'n sense. I've been watching ball for far too F'n long to not know what counts as great use of a big or not. I'm not wrong on this one. If you show me a game where he gets a majority of his looks in prime setups off good ball movement and spacing, then we'd be really talking, but this team often is playing with poor spacing cuz we don't run good plays. Those Melo ISO's are BAD BASKETBALL. It's our lowest % offense when we do that. Just look it up.
I don't even have to look it up. When guys are just standing around staring at Melo while he's dribbling and trying to create a shot for himself, I'm not sure how anyone can call that good team basketball. The hero ball stuff, even the shots that have gone in, are technically 'bad' shots that are made because Melo has enough talent to create space and get a look for himself. The team shouldn't rely on stuff like that, but they do. Time and time again, with Melo and JR.
gunsnewing wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.
YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.
Novak is scaring me. Remember he was taken completely out of the Miami series in the playoffs and now shots he hit last year with space hes much more inconsistent with. Hes a one trick pony and his trick hasnt been as good. He has to knock down atleast 2 out of 5 shots
True that Novak isn't as hot as last year, but I also think part of that is that too many of his shots are not open and in rhythm. Also he needs to get more actual touches. We don't swing the ball as much as we did in the past. Not everyone is getting to touch the ball and get a feel. The ball is being dominated by Melo n JR where they never give the ball up. They're dribbling way more than they did to start the year, when the team was making multiple passes. It's sometimes little things like that which make all the difference.
Let's see when Felton gets back. This group just doesn't get it and neither does Woodson. No penetration is killer
YUP! How many passes did STAT just mishandle when he was getting fed on time and accurately with Felton making solid passes? How much better did the team look when the ball wasn't sticking and guys were standing around getting cold and barely touching the ball? We had everyone involved earlier in the season. Then we started to see some slippage into selfish BB and that starts with the teams best player. Melo has to keep moving the ball more and trusting that he'll get it back. He did make a couple of nice passes, but it doesn't erase the fact that he also forced a ton of shots too. The same goes for JR when he gets dribble happy and takes bad shots. That limits the number of good shots that Kidd, Novak and Cope get and when they do finally get the ball they're cold from not having touched the ball enough.
This was a very good game for us...We shot poorly early on but battled back...I think Woody is making the mistake MDA made...Sacrificing defense for offense...He has Chandler on the bench in the 4th at a critical juncture and was getting pounded on the boards..When Chandler returned we stopped their second chance opportunities...But I like what I saw in all...Amare is looking better taking baby steps...Melo looking for him...Can't wait for Felton to get back..All the bandages are off Felton hands...I want to see Amare back in the starting lineup...But when Sheed and/or Camby can play again ....This was a game that took me back to the 90s...We will be a different team in March...Can't wait...
NYDiva wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame. Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.
IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.
I know WTF i'm talking about. They're making STAT play in a crowd when they don't have to. You F'n spread the damn floor, swing the ball quickly and get him some really solid low post possessions. This is just common F'n sense. I've been watching ball for far too F'n long to not know what counts as great use of a big or not. I'm not wrong on this one. If you show me a game where he gets a majority of his looks in prime setups off good ball movement and spacing, then we'd be really talking, but this team often is playing with poor spacing cuz we don't run good plays. Those Melo ISO's are BAD BASKETBALL. It's our lowest % offense when we do that. Just look it up.
I don't even have to look it up. When guys are just standing around staring at Melo while he's dribbling and trying to create a shot for himself, I'm not sure how anyone can call that good team basketball. The hero ball stuff, even the shots that have gone in, are technically 'bad' shots that are made because Melo has enough talent to create space and get a look for himself. The team shouldn't rely on stuff like that, but they do. Time and time again, with Melo and JR.
It's almost like fans are lulled to sleep by the fact that Melo and JR have been hogging the ball and they make a few amazing shots, but in truth the TEAM plays more efficient BB when the ball is moving and everyone is involved. It's just the facts. This team was playing some of the most efficient BB in the league and they were sharing the ball and making the smart play almost every time. This team was playing the right way no matter who was in the game. Even when Felton was on the bench the team still looked to have ball and player movement. Too much ISO is never a good thing. Now instead of wide open 3's, we're getting a lot more contested long 2's. Those are the lowest % shots in the league.
I feel we are missing something. Maybe it's Felton, but I don't think a team that feels like it could make a title run, should be this depended on 1 player to scorer.
If we grabbed more boards or had more penetrating ball handlers, we wouldn't be such a slave to having Felton, or Melo scorer 10 points to start the game and close out ever game, or making 11 three's every game.
This team is falling hard. Injuries is a great excuse but losing at home on a regular basis has got to be alarming even for the most die hard optimist.
Knicks need Felton more than people realize, he makes Chandler so much more effective and would help Amare, he's the one PG who can attack the rim and draw attention to free guys up, even when he misses inside Chandler cleans up the boards and puts it back.
Anji wrote:I feel we are missing something. Maybe it's Felton, but I don't think a team that feels like it could make a title run, should be this depended on 1 player to scorer. If we grabbed more boards or had more penetrating ball handlers, we wouldn't be such a slave to having Felton, or Melo scorer 10 points to start the game and close out ever game, or making 11 three's every game.
We need Felton and Sheed and Camby. I think the rebounding is why there are rumors of the Knicks trying to get KMart. This team just lacks a beast rebounder. The Nets actually have a couple of guys.
Yea I miss when we were crediting mike dantoni for the knicks great ball movement and open 3's early in the season
Vmart wrote:This team is falling hard. Injuries is a great excuse but losing at home on a regular basis has got to be alarming even for the most die hard optimist.
yup losses at home to Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and Indiana. NOT GOOD!
Really sucks that we were without felton for such a key stretch
The team need Felton back and their two guards off the ball. Kidd and JR should be off the ball. JR needs more plays off screens and spotting up. Sheed and Camby helps too. Also, once Amar'e gets back into the grove MElo can get some freaking rest in games.
gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:This team is falling hard. Injuries is a great excuse but losing at home on a regular basis has got to be alarming even for the most die hard optimist.
yup losses at home to Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and Indiana. NOT GOOD!
No Granger, No Rose, and all those teams play very good defense and/or are good at rebounding.
3G4G wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:This team is falling hard. Injuries is a great excuse but losing at home on a regular basis has got to be alarming even for the most die hard optimist.
yup losses at home to Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and Indiana. NOT GOOD!
No Granger, No Rose, and all those teams play very good defense and/or a good at rebounding.
I guess the Knicks need to improve their D to be in those class :)
If the Knicks continue this losing they will officially become Woodson' s Hawks. I hate the fact they jack so many threes. I said this a while ago that losing was becoming more and more acceptable to the Knicks. If you guys are watching this team is swooning in the standings. Pacers, Bulls, and Nets gonna take the Knicks over with next loss.
Anji wrote:I feel we are missing something. Maybe it's Felton, but I don't think a team that feels like it could make a title run, should be this depended on 1 player to scorer. If we grabbed more boards or had more penetrating ball handlers, we wouldn't be such a slave to having Felton, or Melo scorer 10 points to start the game and close out ever game, or making 11 three's every game.
Yep. If the Knicks are going to rely on one player to score, they'd better be compensating for the lack of scoring in other areas.
When the Knicks road Ewing offensively to the Finals, they had the number 1 defense in the league and were an incredible rebounding team. They lost John Starks for a third of the season but didn't really miss a beat.
This team has Melo, Tyson, and...three point shooters???
They aren't great passers (anymore), don't rebound, & don't defend consistently enough.
Guys are transitioning back from injury and some key guys are still injured, so I think it's fair to wait to pass judgement on what this team can do til Felton and Camby and/or Sheed return. But, I'm not sure what to think about this team right now. They have one outstanding scorer and one very good rebounder/defender and not much else it seems.
Lin would have been nice coming off the bench for Felton. We should hav learned last year that having only one guard who can penetrate is a recipe for failure. Right now Prigs and Kidd are like an upgraded BDiddy and Bibby. When Kidd could not finish a fast break after he started it the closest one to the hoop and he was unable to drive past reggie evans I knew this would be a hard game to win.
3G4G wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:This team is falling hard. Injuries is a great excuse but losing at home on a regular basis has got to be alarming even for the most die hard optimist.
yup losses at home to Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and Indiana. NOT GOOD!
No Granger, No Rose, and all those teams play very good defense and/or are good at rebounding.
No Amare, No Shump, No excuses...Do they have a better record than we do??
Shump can penetrate but his legs aren't there yet (I could see it more in this game than the last one). He blew a layup also - didn't have enough spring in his legs to finish.
That said, had he stayed with JJ instead of having JR pick him up, JJ probably doesn't make that shot. JR did not defend him well on that possession.
Felton's presence takes the ball out of Melo's hands a bit which is a good thing because Melo can pass but he's not playmaker. Also, our PNR offense has been lacking tremendously, not to mention Chandlers offensive production has been in decline since Felton has been out. Would ove to see a stat on out points ion the pain before and after Felt left the lineup.
Watching the game with my son,we counted at least 5 times that the nyets walked with the ball and no call and they made a 2 or3pt shot and its costs us either a 2pt shot or a 3 pts shot.5TIMES Thats 10 or 15 pts swing. Not right.
