Knicks · The Great Durant/Melo Debate (page 3)

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The great debate? There is no debate here, Durant is on another level from Melo,

It's Durant, LeBron, Chris Paul

then everyone else

yea.. this, sorry. There is no debate. If there was it went the same place that the MVP conversation that "Melo was in"

About 4 weeks of threads ago.

When MElo is at his best he can play with Durant. Problem is KD is consistant and Melo isnt and never has beem. Durant also gets blocks and contests shots. Melo does neither

Consistency? What is this opinion based on? Stats? Eye tests? Bloodwork?

Blocks? Melo blocks half a shot less per game than Durant.

Durant is obviously better, but they're certainly not levels apart.

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The great debate? There is no debate here, Durant is on another level from Melo,

It's Durant, LeBron, Chris Paul

then everyone else

yea, really, there is no debating here...

No. None whatsoever. This is not the time nor the place for that "debate" nonsense.

Say there are 5 tiers.

Melo is on the 2nd. Thats really excellent BTW. He gets elevated in NYC with exposure so the hype is bigger now.

He is in the conversation for a while, and is still a "player of the month" type starting allstar type.

Can he carry a franchise to the finals? Best at his position? MVP over a long season?

I think he is close and a worthy max player.

We can argue all day but the only thing that matters is what happens on the court.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The great debate? There is no debate here, Durant is on another level from Melo,

It's Durant, LeBron, Chris Paul

then everyone else

yea.. this, sorry. There is no debate. If there was it went the same place that the MVP conversation that "Melo was in"

About 4 weeks of threads ago.

When MElo is at his best he can play with Durant. Problem is KD is consistant and Melo isnt and never has beem. Durant also gets blocks and contests shots. Melo does neither

Consistency? What is this opinion based on? Stats? Eye tests? Bloodwork?

Blocks? Melo blocks half a shot less per game than Durant.

Durant is obviously better, but they're certainly not levels apart.

Melo is not consistent enough to build around. Its why his teams fail year after year in the playoffs.

Here's one example:
Here's the # of games both guys have shot 40% or less.
Durant 3 < 40% (41 games) 7.3%
Melo 8 < 40% (32 games) 25%

In Melo's MVP (well, at least he's in the discussion right?) season he's failing to shoot 40% 25% of time compared to 7.3% for Durant. How do you win a playoff series when the guy your building around is good for a lemon every 4 games? (answer you dont, because his teams dont win).

Durant is everything the MElo minions around here wish our guy is. Levels? Label it how you want, Durant is pretty much better at everything and more athletic player.

This is why those MVP discussions were so stupid. Knicks have been a .500 team since those first three fantastic week, Melo hasnt played defense for weeks now and is shooting 42% for the month.

This is Melo. Up down up down. Im sure playoffs will be different THIS year right mate?

Just win.

As is with usual Knicks are always waiting to be rescued. Baron Davis, Shump, Amare, Felton... someone save us from the fact this team is just good and not great.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The great debate? There is no debate here, Durant is on another level from Melo,

It's Durant, LeBron, Chris Paul

then everyone else

yea.. this, sorry. There is no debate. If there was it went the same place that the MVP conversation that "Melo was in"

About 4 weeks of threads ago.

When MElo is at his best he can play with Durant. Problem is KD is consistant and Melo isnt and never has beem. Durant also gets blocks and contests shots. Melo does neither

Consistency? What is this opinion based on? Stats? Eye tests? Bloodwork?

Blocks? Melo blocks half a shot less per game than Durant.

Durant is obviously better, but they're certainly not levels apart.

whatever level you want put Melo on that makes you warm and fuzzy at night is fine. But to answer your quesion all of the above.

Melo is not consistent enough to build around. Its why his teams fail year after year in the playoffs.

Here's one example:
Here's the # of games both guys have shot 40% or less.
Durant 3 < 40% (41 games) 7.3%
Melo 8 < 40% (32 games) 25%

In Melo's MVP (well, at least he's in the discussion right?) season he's failing to shoot 40% 25% of time compared to 7.3% for Durant. How do you win a playoff series when the guy your building around is good for a lemon every 4 games? (answer you dont, because his teams dont win).

Durant is everything the MElo minions around here wish our guy is. Levels? Label it how you want, Durant is pretty much better at everything and more athletic player.

This is why those MVP discussions were so stupid. Knicks have been a .500 team since those first three fantastic week, Melo hasnt played defense for weeks now and is shooting 42% for the month.

This is Melo. Up down up down. Im sure playoffs will be different THIS year right mate?

Just win.

As is with usual Knicks are always waiting to be rescued. Baron Davis, Shump, Amare, Felton... someone save us from the fact this team is just good and not great.

wow let loose, no punches were held back in this post, and every punch a roundhouse to the jaw

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The great debate? There is no debate here, Durant is on another level from Melo,

It's Durant, LeBron, Chris Paul

then everyone else

yea.. this, sorry. There is no debate. If there was it went the same place that the MVP conversation that "Melo was in"

About 4 weeks of threads ago.

When MElo is at his best he can play with Durant. Problem is KD is consistant and Melo isnt and never has beem. Durant also gets blocks and contests shots. Melo does neither

Consistency? What is this opinion based on? Stats? Eye tests? Bloodwork?

Blocks? Melo blocks half a shot less per game than Durant.

Durant is obviously better, but they're certainly not levels apart.

whatever level you want put Melo on that makes you warm and fuzzy at night is fine. But to answer your quesion all of the above.

Melo is not consistent enough to build around. Its why his teams fail year after year in the playoffs.

Here's one example:
Here's the # of games both guys have shot 40% or less.
Durant 3 < 40% (41 games) 7.3%
Melo 8 < 40% (32 games) 25%

In Melo's MVP (well, at least he's in the discussion right?) season he's failing to shoot 40% 25% of time compared to 7.3% for Durant. How do you win a playoff series when the guy your building around is good for a lemon every 4 games? (answer you dont, because his teams dont win).

Durant is everything the MElo minions around here wish our guy is. Levels? Label it how you want, Durant is pretty much better at everything and more athletic player.

This is why those MVP discussions were so stupid. Knicks have been a .500 team since those first three fantastic week, Melo hasnt played defense for weeks now and is shooting 42% for the month.

This is Melo. Up down up down. Im sure playoffs will be different THIS year right mate?

Just win.

As is with usual Knicks are always waiting to be rescued. Baron Davis, Shump, Amare, Felton... someone save us from the fact this team is just good and not great.

Explain to me why Durant's teams fail year after year in the playoffs. Answer you can't because hate is all important. OKC went to the finals, Denver went to the WCF. I know, in your world mate, that doesn't count. As a matter of fact, going to the playoffs every year doesn't count either, right? No consistency there.

It's been shown that Melo is stronger, has a better post up game. He's the best closer and finisher we've had in years.

Melo's D has been hyped repeatedly in several recent games. Durant's not outblocking or outstealing or out anything Melo statistically except for your all important shooting % and TS% and any other hyperstat you can provide. I provided the per game stats and you revert to the standard "melo takes too many shots to win anything" mantra.

Newsflash: Durant hasn't won anything yet, either.

Yes, we're mired in a .500 slump at the top of the division. Melo's scored 25 or more in how many games straight? But he's not consistent at anything, right? And without Melo tell me where the as usual Knicks would be? And don't waste your time with the one game Miami sample size.

You love Durant. That makes you warm and cozy each evening in front of your Melo voodoo doll, I'm happy for you. Stick another pin in and enjoy.

Two things Melo don't have. Lets see how Durant follows up to finals trips. Return? Or First round bounce.

Lets get them both on the floor for the finals and let them settle it on the court!

Is saying durant is better an insult to Melo?

Saying Melo is not worthy of Durant's used toilet paper is.

Nalod wrote:Durant got a trip to the finals and MVP for season.

Two things Melo don't have. Lets see how Durant follows up to finals trips. Return? Or First round bounce.

Lets get them both on the floor for the finals and let them settle it on the court!

Is saying durant is better an insult to Melo?

It's an insult to Durant to ask this question

Nalod wrote:Durant got a trip to the finals and MVP for season.

Two things Melo don't have. Lets see how Durant follows up to finals trips. Return? Or First round bounce.

Lets get them both on the floor for the finals and let them settle it on the court!

Is saying durant is better an insult to Melo?

Durant is better.

Going to the finals however proves sh1t. Durant had a stupidly talented team - please lets not compare out of context variables.

Durant is better because he just is.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

3G4G wrote:And if you compare Kobe to both of them first 5yrs Kobe would like pure trash....

Up there they go. Every time someone talk about Melo someone has to pull Kobe out their jazz. Kobe Byrant this. Kobe Byrant that. Kobe alright but compared to Melo and Durant Kobe Byrant aint spit"

He beat Melo & Denver's arse

He did beat Melo's arse.

loved that movie! How the hell the make up artists did that with him was incredible.

funny you ask that, I was watching a bio of eddie murphy yesterday...4/6 hrs a day for each character he played putting on that make up, 7 to 10 hrs a day per character when he played the entire family at the dinner table in nutty proffessor (except the kid)..

I don't know why the comparison with these 2 guys, at the end of the day it's all about the players around them and the coach..

A healthy knick team will beat any team in the NBA in a seven game series, and he won't be all on melo, but more so on woodson to make adjustments..

As a basketball savant, I've not seen a small forward in my generation with the offensive skillset Melo has. Kobe has said he's the most difficult player to guard in the NBA, and he's right. He has a low-post game, he's strong and can pound the ball inside. He's got a deadly mid-range game. He can take you outside, with that high arcing beauty of a shot. He can play with his back to the basket, BETTER than LeBron and Durant. He's got a wonderfully fluid first step, he can spin, he can glide, he can make the game seem like it's going in slow motion.

But, he takes bad shots. He's streaky & inconsistent. He plays the game sometimes as if he's on the playground at Rucker, going one-on-one, instead of part of a team game. It's like he's JUST learning this season to trust his teammates and to play within a team concept.

I would LOVE to say he was better than Durant. I am a DIEHARD Knick fan. I love Carmelo and supported the trade, although I hated to see Gallo & Felton go.

But, I've got to speak on what I see about this player. He's got to shake off pretty much how he's played basketball his entire life to become the transcendent player that he absolutely CAN be. That Durant and LeBron are.

NYDiva wrote:This reminds me a bit of the Ewing vs Olajuwon in the '90s. At the time, folks didn't realize how much better the Dream was til the Rockets beat the Knicks in the '94 Finals. I would like for this not to end the same way, honestly.

As a basketball savant, I've not seen a small forward in my generation with the offensive skillset Melo has. Kobe has said he's the most difficult player to guard in the NBA, and he's right. He has a low-post game, he's strong and can pound the ball inside. He's got a deadly mid-range game. He can take you outside, with that high arcing beauty of a shot. He can play with his back to the basket, BETTER than LeBron and Durant. He's got a wonderfully fluid first step, he can spin, he can glide, he can make the game seem like it's going in slow motion.

But, he takes bad shots. He's streaky & inconsistent. He plays the game sometimes as if he's on the playground at Rucker, going one-on-one, instead of part of a team game. It's like he's JUST learning this season to trust his teammates and to play within a team concept.

I would LOVE to say he was better than Durant. I am a DIEHARD Knick fan. I love Carmelo and supported the trade, although I hated to see Gallo & Felton go.

But, I've got to speak on what I see about this player. He's got to shake off pretty much how he's played basketball his entire life to become the transcendent player that he absolutely CAN be. That Durant and LeBron are.

i applaud this post!

NYDiva wrote:This reminds me a bit of the Ewing vs Olajuwon in the '90s. At the time, folks didn't realize how much better the Dream was til the Rockets beat the Knicks in the '94 Finals. I would like for this not to end the same way, honestly.

As a basketball savant, I've not seen a small forward in my generation with the offensive skillset Melo has. Kobe has said he's the most difficult player to guard in the NBA, and he's right. He has a low-post game, he's strong and can pound the ball inside. He's got a deadly mid-range game. He can take you outside, with that high arcing beauty of a shot. He can play with his back to the basket, BETTER than LeBron and Durant. He's got a wonderfully fluid first step, he can spin, he can glide, he can make the game seem like it's going in slow motion.

But, he takes bad shots. He's streaky & inconsistent. He plays the game sometimes as if he's on the playground at Rucker, going one-on-one, instead of part of a team game. It's like he's JUST learning this season to trust his teammates and to play within a team concept.

I would LOVE to say he was better than Durant. I am a DIEHARD Knick fan. I love Carmelo and supported the trade, although I hated to see Gallo & Felton go.

But, I've got to speak on what I see about this player. He's got to shake off pretty much how he's played basketball his entire life to become the transcendent player that he absolutely CAN be. That Durant and LeBron are.

Extremely fair take

Overall, I have Durant as the #2 player in the NBA and Melo as #4. It's not that far apart, but Durant gets the edge. For the first 25 games of the season, I might argue that Melo was making a bid for #1 or #2, but it's hard to say that right now.

NYDiva wrote:This reminds me a bit of the Ewing vs Olajuwon in the '90s. At the time, folks didn't realize how much better the Dream was til the Rockets beat the Knicks in the '94 Finals. I would like for this not to end the same way, honestly.

As a basketball savant, I've not seen a small forward in my generation with the offensive skillset Melo has. Kobe has said he's the most difficult player to guard in the NBA, and he's right. He has a low-post game, he's strong and can pound the ball inside. He's got a deadly mid-range game. He can take you outside, with that high arcing beauty of a shot. He can play with his back to the basket, BETTER than LeBron and Durant. He's got a wonderfully fluid first step, he can spin, he can glide, he can make the game seem like it's going in slow motion.

But, he takes bad shots. He's streaky & inconsistent. He plays the game sometimes as if he's on the playground at Rucker, going one-on-one, instead of part of a team game. It's like he's JUST learning this season to trust his teammates and to play within a team concept.

I would LOVE to say he was better than Durant. I am a DIEHARD Knick fan. I love Carmelo and supported the trade, although I hated to see Gallo & Felton go.

But, I've got to speak on what I see about this player. He's got to shake off pretty much how he's played basketball his entire life to become the transcendent player that he absolutely CAN be. That Durant and LeBron are.

Durant is a transcendent player? Lebron is on his own planet. Durant may be a tad bit better than Melo but if Melo isn't close to Lebron than neither is Durant.

durant has a healthier approach to the game, you'll never catch him chasing busses,

this, plus a healthy statistical advantage, puts durant in the top three dog category, while melo is outside by the shop window, he's looking in, poor melo, poor little melo

it's just that durant lebron and paul are just a notch above the other big players, and that's all you need in life, it's that small little notch that makes all the difference,

whenever you get closer to the top of the mountain in some field, there is very little difference between the VERY top and the stuff JUST UNDER the very top, but there is a lot of difference between the worst player in the league and the player somewhere in the middle,

as you reach the peak, only small difference seperates the players, and it's that small difference that puts durant in the top three and melo on the outside looking in

NYDiva wrote:This reminds me a bit of the Ewing vs Olajuwon in the '90s. At the time, folks didn't realize how much better the Dream was til the Rockets beat the Knicks in the '94 Finals. I would like for this not to end the same way, honestly.

As a basketball savant, I've not seen a small forward in my generation with the offensive skillset Melo has. Kobe has said he's the most difficult player to guard in the NBA, and he's right. He has a low-post game, he's strong and can pound the ball inside. He's got a deadly mid-range game. He can take you outside, with that high arcing beauty of a shot. He can play with his back to the basket, BETTER than LeBron and Durant. He's got a wonderfully fluid first step, he can spin, he can glide, he can make the game seem like it's going in slow motion.

But, he takes bad shots. He's streaky & inconsistent. He plays the game sometimes as if he's on the playground at Rucker, going one-on-one, instead of part of a team game. It's like he's JUST learning this season to trust his teammates and to play within a team concept.

I would LOVE to say he was better than Durant. I am a DIEHARD Knick fan. I love Carmelo and supported the trade, although I hated to see Gallo & Felton go.

But, I've got to speak on what I see about this player. He's got to shake off pretty much how he's played basketball his entire life to become the transcendent player that he absolutely CAN be. That Durant and LeBron are.

Very good post.

I remember being blown away by Hakeem in 94' thinking "knicks got this"........only to be watching with jaw dropped how good he was making ewing look so slow. Sometimes we buy our own hype a bit too much.

That series changed my outlook on proball and the passion for my team. '99 was out of reach and a fun ride so it never really got to me.

Melo is on the list and moving up. Thats a good thing!

Nalod wrote:Durant got a trip to the finals and MVP for season.

Two things Melo don't have. Lets see how Durant follows up to finals trips. Return? Or First round bounce.
Lets get them both on the floor for the finals and let them settle it on the court!

Is saying durant is better an insult to Melo?

No, Kevin Duran also has several NBA scoring titles and is on pace to become just the sixth NBA player in the NBA history to shoot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from three-point range and 90 percent from the free-throw line for an entire season. KD is not just a great scorer, but one of the most efficient scorers ever.