Knicks · List of True Championship Contenders (page 3)
tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:Knicks are not in the Scussin category. Not after not proven to win a playoff series with many of the players they've had on the team and their wild splits this year against the tough teams....Also what you describe for a group of teams also applies to other team not in those groups, you're not consistentThe way I see it...
Clear Cut
Heat
OKC
Heavily In the Scussion
Bulls
Spurs
PacersThese team are proven winners and/or have challenged those in the post-season who have gone far in the post-season recently. Regular season is Regular season....These teams play championship caliber basketball always consistent in what they do and how they play, are physically and mentally tough, evenly balanced on both sides of the ball and are tops of the league in defense
Sleepers/Darkhorses
Clippers
MemphisAll the teams above have these but these team lack much of the above.... Stars, Depth, Bigs, respectable defense, rebounding, 3's, veteran leadership, scoring inside & out, getting to the line, bench scoring, Solid regular season teams with little shot at the getting to the Finals & some flaws
Pretenders/Paper Champs
Knicks
Brooklyn
Teams that think they are good but really aren't at this time likely 1st or 2nd round exit teamsExciting Regular Season/A Piece Away
Nuggets
Warriors
Houston
Hawks
Bucks
Could make noise a la Baron Davis/Warriors type team with difficult shot at getting to the finals depends heavily on matchup(s) have multiple flaws. Not much difference between Paper Champs and Exciting Regular season teamFading Legends
Lakers
BostonAlthough could rear their ugly head with the heart of a champion
yea, I like this list a lot more.. seems to be more fair.... especially considering teams like the bulls and pacers having pushed some of these top teams in the recent playoffs..
This is not the same Knick team though
tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The way I see it...Clear Cut
Heat
OKCIn the scussion
Knicks(w/Sheed & Camby)
Bulls
SpursThese teams play championship caliber basketball. Stars, Depth, Bigs, defense, rebounding, 3's, veteran leadership, scoring inside & out, getting to the line, bench scoring
Solid regular season teams with little shot at the getting to the Finals & some flaws
Clippers
Lakers
WarriorsExciting regular season with NO shot at getting to the finals & multiple flaws
Nuggets
Pacers
HawksTeams a piece away from making noise
HoustonTeams that think they are good but really aren't but are 1st or 2nd round exit teams
Brooklynguns your descriptions don't seem to fit all of the teams... for instance why should "stars" be a prerequisite for a team to play championship caliber basketball... do the pacers have a star according to you? if not, do you really think there is a difference in quality of ball between them and the knicks? the pacers and nuggets both are better rebounding teams than the knicks by far, they both have depth, bigs, veteran leadership, they can score inside and out actually denver leads the league in points in the paint.. houston is 3rd, clippers 2nd. knicks last..
I am not saying I completely disagree with your list, but if we are going to be honest, the pacers deserve to be in the discussion as they pushed miami last year.. knicks have just one playoff win.... lets put ourselves in the pacers shoes... would we really buy that the knicks are more of a contender than we are( being pacers fans that is)...
Papabear Says
Ha Ha that was a good one. The team we had last year cant compete with team this year. I feel good about the knicks being able to go deep in the playoffs
holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...It's not them actually beating us 3-0 tis year per say although in Rose's absence it's a little alarming because of how much they've had command in those games. It has more so to do with who they are in general. Yes if we meet them they will continue to handle us that way. Thibs is no joke of a coach and they are no joke of a team.
Thibs coach hustle...He doesn't coach X's and O's...
No he coaches X's and O's Doc Rivers said as much when the Celtics won their Championship while he was on their bench as the lead assistant. Nice try.
As if Woody teaches X's and O's with Epic Post Season failures(rolling eyes).
Doc Rivers recently said when the Bulls played the Celtics Thibs was also involved in the offense when he was there. Ironically enough it was the game Belly beat them in Boston in the final moments of the game.
"Not the same Knick Team"
translation=buying time
News Flash neither are the other teams just in case you guys haven't taken a deeper look
3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...It's not them actually beating us 3-0 tis year per say although in Rose's absence it's a little alarming because of how much they've had command in those games. It has more so to do with who they are in general. Yes if we meet them they will continue to handle us that way. Thibs is no joke of a coach and they are no joke of a team.
Thibs coach hustle...He doesn't coach X's and O's...
No he coaches X's and O's Doc Rivers said as much when the Celtics won their Championship while he was on their bench as the lead assistant. Nice try.
As if Woody teaches X's and O's with Epic Post Season failures(rolling eyes).
Doc Rivers recently said when the Bulls played the Celtics Thibs was also involved in the offense when he was there. Ironically enough it was the game Belly beat them in Boston in the final moments of the game.
OK...If u say so..They fizzed out pretty quickly against an equally manned Sixer team...
During the two games in which we've murdered Miami? During one of those games (the first game) the likes of Iman Shumpert, Amar'e Stoudemire and Marcus Camby were out. During the second game we were without the likes of Iman Shumpert, Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire and Marcus Camby.
The postseason may be another beast effort/intensity wise, but the same can also be stated about our New York Knicks. There is no way you can consider the likes of Miami Heat as being a Clear Cut without mentioning the Knicks right alongside as clear cut contenders. 2-0 against Miami despite a boat load of injuries along with being only 1/2 a game behind these guys doesn't lie.
Clear Cut
Heat
OKC
Spurs
In the scussion
Bulls
Clips
Solid regular season teams with little shot at the getting to the Finals & some flaws
Exciting regular season with NO shot at getting to the finals & multiple flaws
Nuggets
Pacers
Hawks
Houston
Warriors
Teams that think they are good but really aren't but are 1st or 2nd round exit teams
Brooklyn
NYK
Lakers (if they even make the playoffs)
holfresh wrote:I love the enthusiasm but u cant take anything from those regular season wins...We weren't winning those games because we were playing a superior brand of ball... We match up well against them...We have lots of chemistry work to do...We are still a quite a few paces behind a team like of the Heat...Amare, Chandler and Felton has to get on the same page...Melo will be ready...But we have three months to do it...Enough time...
Ok, but if we can't take anything from our regular season wins and/or regular season success thus far, then how can we take any team's victories serious? Without regular season success, there are no contenders. Remember that.
And I'll also agree to disagree in regards to our Knicks not winning those games due to playing a superior brand of basketball. During our first win against Miami? That was the start of a 6 game win streak in which we ended up winning 8 of our first 9 games (8-1). During our second win against Miami? We were on a 4 game win streak and our victory against Miami gave us five consecutive W's. We ended up going 4-1 after Miami's win as well. 9-1 during our last 10 games when mentioning our second victory against Miami.
Championship or bust
OKC
Spurs
Clips
Lakers
Wild cards
Memphis
GS
East
Championship or bust
Heat
Wild cards
Knicks
Bulls
Indy
Philly
NYKMentality wrote:holfresh wrote:I love the enthusiasm but u cant take anything from those regular season wins...We weren't winning those games because we were playing a superior brand of ball... We match up well against them...We have lots of chemistry work to do...We are still a quite a few paces behind a team like of the Heat...Amare, Chandler and Felton has to get on the same page...Melo will be ready...But we have three months to do it...Enough time...Ok, but if we can't take anything from our regular season wins and/or regular season success thus far, then how can we take any team's victories serious? Without regular season success, there are no contenders. Remember that.
And I'll also agree to disagree in regards to our Knicks not winning those games due to playing a superior brand of basketball. During our first win against Miami? That was the start of a 6 game win streak in which we ended up winning 8 of our first 9 games (8-1). During our second win against Miami? We were on a 4 game win streak and our victory against Miami gave us five consecutive W's. We ended up going 4-1 after Miami's win as well. 9-1 during our last 10 games when mentioning our second victory against Miami.
Winning I think it different for different teams..Miami already knows how they are going to win as a team..The Knicks have not established that yet...We have yet to establish what identity we will be as a team..Our defense has been spotty at best...Amare just got back..Shump isn't close to where he was before he went down...We haven't seen Amare and Felton yet..I don't think Amare fully has his legs back yet...But as I say we have time...
I certainly think the regular season counts but its how u play...Miami, OKC, and the Spurs are solid...They know how they will beat u...The rest of the league is trying to figure it out...It might take a playoff series to figure it out, who knows..But if we do figure it out, who is to say that entity can't beat all those teams we now consider solid...
Heat & Knicks
West:
OKC, Spurs & Clippers
holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...It's not them actually beating us 3-0 tis year per say although in Rose's absence it's a little alarming because of how much they've had command in those games. It has more so to do with who they are in general. Yes if we meet them they will continue to handle us that way. Thibs is no joke of a coach and they are no joke of a team.
Thibs coach hustle...He doesn't coach X's and O's...
No he coaches X's and O's Doc Rivers said as much when the Celtics won their Championship while he was on their bench as the lead assistant. Nice try.
As if Woody teaches X's and O's with Epic Post Season failures(rolling eyes).
Doc Rivers recently said when the Bulls played the Celtics Thibs was also involved in the offense when he was there. Ironically enough it was the game Belly beat them in Boston in the final moments of the game.
OK...If u say so..They fizzed out pretty quickly against an equally manned Sixer team...
Dude they had no Rose after game 1 and no Noah after game 3 yet they won 2gms and all the games were close except 1. Matter of fact if C.J. Watson would have done the correct thing on the break the series could have turned out totally different.
gunsnewing wrote:I think you can go by how teams fair against each other in the regular season. For instance we match up well with Miami. We should be 4-0 on Brooklyn and 2-0 on Indy if not for key injuries
Reg. season does not mean a thing come the playoffs. There is absolutely no correlation, imo. Two years ago the Bulls handled Mia during the reg. season then lost to them during the playoffs.
The point of the regular season is to accumulate as many wins as possible while staying as healthy as possible. That is it.
The playoffs are a different animal, with far more effort and intensity.
3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...It's not them actually beating us 3-0 tis year per say although in Rose's absence it's a little alarming because of how much they've had command in those games. It has more so to do with who they are in general. Yes if we meet them they will continue to handle us that way. Thibs is no joke of a coach and they are no joke of a team.
Thibs coach hustle...He doesn't coach X's and O's...
No he coaches X's and O's Doc Rivers said as much when the Celtics won their Championship while he was on their bench as the lead assistant. Nice try.
As if Woody teaches X's and O's with Epic Post Season failures(rolling eyes).
Doc Rivers recently said when the Bulls played the Celtics Thibs was also involved in the offense when he was there. Ironically enough it was the game Belly beat them in Boston in the final moments of the game.
OK...If u say so..They fizzed out pretty quickly against an equally manned Sixer team...
Dude they had no Rose after game 1 and no Noah after game 3 yet they won 2gms and all the games were close except 1. Matter of fact if C.J. Watson would have done the correct thing on the break the series could have turned out totally different.
They won the first game which Rose played...They won 1 game after that ...Not impressed ..
NUPE wrote:East:Heat & Knicks
West:
OKC, Spurs & Clippers
This. Prior to the gay trade I would have included the grizzlies
holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...
But six hours later, you went ecstatic over 24 regular season victories with Felton.
holfresh wrote:dk7..That was me who said he "fits perfectly with the team's objectives"...U get it yet or is it still foggy??...Are u still LOL-ing???..24-9 with Felton...6-6 without....24-9 with...6-6 without....24-9 with...6-6 without...24-9 with...6-6 without...4-1 since the return...Get it??
holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...
Regular season wins absolutely mean something. Over the Summer I had a post where I looked at the seedings for every NBA champion over the past 45 years. 39 of them were 1 or 2 seeds, four were 3 seeds, and one 4 and 6 seeds. The teams that lost the title those years were ranked:
1st - 19 teams
2nd - 15 teams
3rd - 6 teams, 5 of which actually had the 2nd best record in their conference
4th - 3 teams
5th - 0 teams
6th - 1 team
7th - 0 teams
8th - 1 team
In football you can get hot for a month and win it all, in baseball you can ride some hot pitching to a title, in hockey you can ride a hot goalie to a title. In basketball you need to be great from start to finish. Later this week, if I have time, I'll go back and see where the two Finals teams ranked league-wide instead of just their conference.
OKC
San Antonio
Miami
Contenders:
NYK (with excellent health)
Clippers
Chicago
Next tier:
Nuggets
Warriors
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Sorry, I can't and don't put much stock in regular season victories...The Bulls out worked us at every turn...They won't win that way in the playoffs ...
But six hours later, you went ecstatic over 24 regular season victories with Felton.holfresh wrote:dk7..That was me who said he "fits perfectly with the team's objectives"...U get it yet or is it still foggy??...Are u still LOL-ing???..24-9 with Felton...6-6 without....24-9 with...6-6 without....24-9 with...6-6 without...24-9 with...6-6 without...4-1 since the return...Get it??
Well let me break it down for u brother..My many postings could have gotten lost in the noise and constant barrage of hate that goes on here, present company not included of course...I have stated many times that what is important is how we play as a team..Not individual victories against individual teams...Trying to achieve the synergy of team basketball, if you will, the very thing that is required to compete against the likes of Miami and OKC...I submit, that the number of victories with Felton leading our back court is testament to the synergy or the process of growth as a team, that otherwise does not exist when he not present...The ease of flow of the basketball from one player to another is a direct result of his initiation and orchestration, which has led to what was perceived earlier in the year and is now currently being reexamined, as the foundations of a good basketball team...Ball movement is now evident again...The constant exploration and examination to find that open man is a once again a constant, some say too much so in certain instances, and has resulted in many wide open jumpers from beyond the arc...The tallied enumerated results of this sudden resurgence of ball movement is back and are often associated with good basketball teams..Some refer to this as team assist...The singular outburst of offense needed nightly to get us across the finish line by one Carmelo Anthony, is no longer needed(note his points totals the last two games)...The joy of the results can be seen on the sidelines as starters cheer on players who are otherwise relegated to the bench at the end of games, continue this infectious mood of ball sharing that leads to the knocking down of wide open jumpers, taking the fight out of the opponent, resulting in victory upon wonderful victory...So you see, yes the number of victories matters and yes, it doesn't matter...