Knicks · Knickerbockers stink right now, Gonna run my mouth about it... since NYK in discussion among elite teams (page 2)

I think the knicks have had a lot of these problems most of the year.. we were always near last in points in the paint, we were always a poor rebounding team it seems.. but we were shooting the three point ball at a ridiculously high rate... when that started to fall back down to earth, the flaws that is covered are not starting to surface... I do agree tho, that our defense has slacked off, but again, guys were hustling and playing all out.. that tends to happen early in the season.. we had a lot of hype, in the media, and even from withing, guys wanted to prove something.. the problem is, once that wore off, how do we keep up that intensity? Guys have to want to defend, every night, and that just hasn't happened.... add in a somewhat softer schedule than most, and you saw a team that was able to survive these flaws with good three point shooting and some lesser opponents..

gunsnewing wrote:A little too late for infusion of youth. We traded all youth for veteranship now gotta deal with the consequences

bingo...

Knicksfan wrote:"The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision."

This team can drive the most sane fan completely crazy. And they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

They have the talent right now to win the games they have lost since that december date, yet they seem to be complacent just to be where they are, seem ready to coast a .500 record the rest of the season and get to the playoffs.

The playoffs!

Oh! That promised land this team won the rights to be in because of their magical start of the season! Not to mention a championahip, but let's not get that ahead, right?

Bah! This team has enough talent to win,get to the playoff as a pretty high seed and even win a title. Yet they are sleeping in the laurels and the second half of the season is so much more competitive they could be in for a rude awakening if they don't wake up from this illogical sleep they are.

You know, you don't have to play perfect. Just play good defense. I can assure you if we had up to this point, we'd have a better record than Miami. But this team, Woody included, have beel complacent being a disappointment since mid december.

I don't think the knicks are taking it easy, sleeping on the job.. I think they are what they are.... to say we have enough talent to win a ring is a bit far fetched.. I mean I question if the clippers have championship talent, yet when you look at that team, they are better than us, top to bottom and bottom to top....

It takes a special group of leaders on your team to get you to a championship... our best players have major flaws.. Major.. that is a problem..

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:This team can only be fixed by itself. When they play at their best, we can blow out Miami, which is saying a lot.

We have what is necessary in terms of personnel. Maybe explore bringing Kenyon Martin to the team if he is still available.

But even so, we have what we need in terms of players.

Question is:

Can Woody bring accountability back to this team? Can he make them play D again?

When you see the issue as it is, everybody looks bad, but Woody looks the worst because its all about coaching

J kidd was a big reason why this club was really good and hes shot--Shumpert is not even an upgrade to Brewer and Tyson cant score unless force fed. We dont have enough scoring

Yep, essentially we've lost all productivity from Kidd and Brewer, and gained an unproductive Shump (to be expected- not criticizing him), and lost Sheed and camby. 2 of those players need to get their game back if we are going to improve.

jrodmc wrote:I sure miss not making the playoffs and wondering what we were going to do with all that cap space.

And draft picks.... I miss draft picks...

and blasting players we picked on draft night, then hailing them as gods, then saying they suck, then hailing them as gods again when they're on other teams. This season has really made me realise how lucky we were having IT as our GM all those years, and then D'Antoni as coach. I would say this is the worst team in Knick history, and that we suck and yet are somehow over rated despite the fact that the same people keep saying we suck anyways.

I really thought... nay, EXPECTED us to win 100% of games, and beat every good opponent everytime- if he can do that minor fete then we must suck!

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:This team can only be fixed by itself. When they play at their best, we can blow out Miami, which is saying a lot.

We have what is necessary in terms of personnel. Maybe explore bringing Kenyon Martin to the team if he is still available.

But even so, we have what we need in terms of players.

Question is:

Can Woody bring accountability back to this team? Can he make them play D again?

When you see the issue as it is, everybody looks bad, but Woody looks the worst because its all about coaching

J kidd was a big reason why this club was really good and hes shot--Shumpert is not even an upgrade to Brewer and Tyson cant score unless force fed. We dont have enough scoring

Yep, essentially we've lost all productivity from Kidd and Brewer, and gained an unproductive Shump (to be expected- not criticizing him), and lost Sheed and camby. 2 of those players need to get their game back if we are going to improve.

I don't quite understand what anyone's expecting out of Camby. It was a gamble on someone at the tail end of the career. We lost that bet.

Sheed I can see. He's crazy, he hits the occasional three and he's downright gruesome in the lane on D. As opposed to Novak waving as people go by. Much rather see him at the 5 with Stat then what we're seeing now from the second unit. Deep analysis, I know.

jrodmc wrote:I sure miss not making the playoffs and wondering what we were going to do with all that cap space.

And draft picks.... I miss draft picks...

We've had draft picks?

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I sure miss not making the playoffs and wondering what we were going to do with all that cap space.

And draft picks.... I miss draft picks...

We've had draft picks?

Ha, don't start I'm still trying to suppress the memory of those top picks we gave Chicago for Eddy Curry! And we didn't even have too!

Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

It wasn't a criticism- and I'll admit whenever we're doing well, I always worry that it's an illusion or that something will go wrong.

For me though, the last 26 games haven't been a disappointment. I expected us to go 50% while Felton was out, and I've been watching Knick teams long enough to know we never play like an elite team all season. Last 26 games have been pretty good- if we played like this in the playoffs it would end in disaster, but I'm hopeful we'll be able to raise our level of play when the playoffs start.

32-17 is still a good record, and we have room for improvement.

Bonn1997 wrote:
18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

By the way, you do realise that 18-5 projects to 36-10 by the 46 game mark. And that our actual record at that point was 31-15 despite the Felton injury? So to you 5 extra losses (we went 6-6 without Felton)is the difference between being a great team and being a bum team?

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

By the way, you do realise that 18-5 projects to 36-10 by the 46 game mark. And that our actual record at that point was 31-15 despite the Felton injury? So to you 5 extra losses (we went 6-6 without Felton)is the difference between being a great team and being a bum team?

It looks more to me like we had a) unsustainable good health from old players early in the year and b) unsustainable good shooting early in the year. We've gone 14-12 since then. That's 6-6 without Felton and 8-6 with him. And our opponents' FG% was .453 in that stretch.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I sure miss not making the playoffs and wondering what we were going to do with all that cap space.

And draft picks.... I miss draft picks...

We've had draft picks?

Ha, don't start I'm still trying to suppress the memory of those top picks we gave Chicago for Eddy Curry! And we didn't even have too!

And don't forget the $3mil we gave away! sigh...

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

By the way, you do realise that 18-5 projects to 36-10 by the 46 game mark. And that our actual record at that point was 31-15 despite the Felton injury? So to you 5 extra losses (we went 6-6 without Felton)is the difference between being a great team and being a bum team?

It looks more to me like we had a) unsustainable good health from old players early in the year and b) unsustainable good shooting early in the year. We've gone 14-12 since then. That's 6-6 without Felton and 8-6 with him. And our opponents' FG% was .453 in that stretch.

But we've gone 6-3 since Felton got back (before he went out he was suffering from bone bruises in both hands). I agree around christmas until Felton got back was our low point, but I think we've improved a bit since then. Last night was a stinker, but I think we can get better.

One thing I wonder about the FG% is honestly, how much of it is bad defense and how much of it is just good shooting? I know our defense is frequently bad, but then again I've watched player after player light us up, and then go back to sucking against every other team regardless of how bad their defense is.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

By the way, you do realise that 18-5 projects to 36-10 by the 46 game mark. And that our actual record at that point was 31-15 despite the Felton injury? So to you 5 extra losses (we went 6-6 without Felton)is the difference between being a great team and being a bum team?

It looks more to me like we had a) unsustainable good health from old players early in the year and b) unsustainable good shooting early in the year. We've gone 14-12 since then. That's 6-6 without Felton and 8-6 with him. And our opponents' FG% was .453 in that stretch.

But we've gone 6-3 since Felton got back (before he went out he was suffering from bone bruises in both hands). I agree around christmas until Felton got back was our low point, but I think we've improved a bit since then. Last night was a stinker, but I think we can get better.

One thing I wonder about the FG% is honestly, how much of it is bad defense and how much of it is just good shooting? I know our defense is frequently bad, but then again I've watched player after player light us up, and then go back to sucking against every other team regardless of how bad their defense is.

6-3, 8-6, etc. I think this is basically a .600 team with Felton. If Camby gets healthy and plays at the level he did last year, that would completely change things though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

At 18-5, there were those still posting fervently debating "the trade." Go back and look.

Not to say 'i told you so', but there really is no good time on this board to post about the neurotic tendencies of the Somber few.

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

At 18-5, there were those still posting fervently debating "the trade." Go back and look.

Not to say 'i told you so', but there really is no good time on this board to post about the neurotic tendencies of the Somber few.

You see neurotic tendencies of the somber few. I see a neurotic need to censor any critical statements about Carmelo.

Knicksfan wrote:"The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision."

This team can drive the most sane fan completely crazy. And they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

They have the talent right now to win the games they have lost since that december date, yet they seem to be complacent just to be where they are, seem ready to coast a .500 record the rest of the season and get to the playoffs.

The playoffs!

Oh! That promised land this team won the rights to be in because of their magical start of the season! Not to mention a championahip, but let's not get that ahead, right?

Bah! This team has enough talent to win,get to the playoff as a pretty high seed and even win a title. Yet they are sleeping in the laurels and the second half of the season is so much more competitive they could be in for a rude awakening if they don't wake up from this illogical sleep they are.

You know, you don't have to play perfect. Just play good defense. I can assure you if we had up to this point, we'd have a better record than Miami. But this team, Woody included, have beel complacent being a disappointment since mid december.

this doesn't reflect well on the coach... if you believe the team is an extension of the coach.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:This team can only be fixed by itself. When they play at their best, we can blow out Miami, which is saying a lot.

We have what is necessary in terms of personnel. Maybe explore bringing Kenyon Martin to the team if he is still available.

But even so, we have what we need in terms of players.

Question is:

Can Woody bring accountability back to this team? Can he make them play D again?

When you see the issue as it is, everybody looks bad, but Woody looks the worst because its all about coaching

J kidd was a big reason why this club was really good and hes shot--Shumpert is not even an upgrade to Brewer and Tyson cant score unless force fed. We dont have enough scoring

it'd be nice if the guys who shot the most would also try and facilitate once in a while... you know, to keep the other players ready and focussed and the defenses honest?

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Hmm, I wonder if some of the more persistently critical posters are actually suffering from Achilles Syndrome when it comes to the Knicks, which explains their viewpoint. Basically it's a fear of being exposed as a fraud, and that all achievements are due to a mistake in evaluating, and you live in fear of one day being find out (I can relate to this!). Here are the symptoms:

These symptoms are the building blocks of pseudocompetence and usually will never be visible by others.

1) A mismatch between externally assessed competence or qualification and internally experienced competence or
capability, leading to feelings of I'm a fraud.
2) Inappropriate anxiety or panic in anticipation of doing the relevant task.
3) Inappropriate strain or exhaustion after the task.
4) Relief instead of satisfaction on completion of a task.
5) Inability to carry over any sense of achievement to the next situation.
6) A recurrent conscious or unconscious fear of being found out, and of shame and humiliation.
7) A longing to tell others about the discomfort but having a fear of being called weak or unstable.

Obviously number 7 does not apply

18-5 would have been a good time to post this comment. Here, after a disappointing 26 game stretch and a bad home loss yesterday, it makes no sense.

At 18-5, there were those still posting fervently debating "the trade." Go back and look.

Not to say 'i told you so', but there really is no good time on this board to post about the neurotic tendencies of the Somber few.

You see neurotic tendencies of the somber few. I see a neurotic need to censor any critical statements about Carmelo.

The OP would seem to be about Knicks somberism in general, not specific to Melohate. Hmmmmmm, interesting subliminal there, huh?

And also, you are the one recommending censoring posts... Despite your obvious statistical prowess, you can truly be difficult to follow.

I know, I know, I should try the ignore button.