Knicks · About that Carmelo MVP thing... (page 4)

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.
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Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference...

If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference... If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

ok

gunsnewing wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference... If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

ok

Sorry for talking basketball.

Was only responding to your lack of insight type of post.

"Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25".

And got swept by the same Spurs team in which eliminated Carmelo during the 1st round. That's what happens when you're going up against elite Western Conference dynasty team(s)...

And those teams in which LeBron "singlehandedly" eliminated? During the first two rounds never even faced an opponent with an above .500 record.

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference... If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

ok

Sorry for talking basketball.

Was only responding to your lack of insight type of post.

"Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25".

And got swept by the same Spurs team in which eliminated Carmelo during the 1st round. That's what happens when you're going up against elite Western Conference dynasty team(s)...

And those teams in which LeBron "singlehandedly" eliminated? During the first two rounds never even faced an opponent with an above .500 record.

OK

I get it Melo is great and Lebron sucks

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:12 games in Nov Kidd shot 51%...

By Month GP FG%
November 12 .509
December 14 .395
January 12 .382
February 6 .233

Remember when very few of us gauged the pulse of this team by what Kidd was doing and ascribed TEAM mvp consideration to him? Well every since his play has dropped off we've looked pretty suspect as a team regardless if Melo drops 40+ or scores 20-25.

yeah i remember that. i remember saying thank god kidd is in the backcourt covering the flaws of ray felton in terms of offensive cohesion. but then woody got desperate and had to play kidd over 30 minutes a game where he was clearly suited to 18 minutes maximum. the strain caught up with kidd and he has not been the same player since. that's what happens when you have an old team... players with skills and BBIQ break down and the team unravels.

Yeah trying to win games at ALL COSTS 15-20gms into the season is not necessarily the wisest thing to do but this is akin when D'Antoni ran Amar'e and Felton into the ground(playing them 40+ min on a regular basis) from mid Novemeber the mid January. Then the team as a whole was running on fumes hence Melo trade had to happen and Amar'e has experienced poor health every since. You can't coach teams like this trying to swing for the fences 1rst week of December, you're only asking for trouble down the road.

coaches job is to win games. IF guys arent playing well you have to ride the ones that are. Damned if you do damned if you dont. I can only imagine the reaction if Woody was losing some close games that Melo, Tyson and Felton (the only guys that contribute daily) only played 30ish minutes to keep down wear and tear. I think Woody knows the Knicks best chance in the playoffs comes with a higher seed. This isnt a kick it in gear group like the old Celtics who already won a title.

Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich and Doc Rivers and Thibs beg to differ just ask Kobe/Duncan/Ginobli/Shaq/Garnett/Rose how these coaches manage their players when they project out to May-June. They wanted their players fresh and healthy as possible. So if that meant cutting back minutes, not playing them at all or taking as much time as possible for the player to return to the court that's what they did. It's completely asinine to run 40yr olds or players with a history of poor health into the ground because you want to be 15-0 in December. Trust.... I bet if the playoffs started today Derrick Rose would be playing big minutes and starting but he still hasn't practiced body-to-body yet...Thibs is okay with bunts, sacrifice flies, singles, doubles, maybe a triple whatever moves the runners to the next base. Would a Grand Slam be grand of course but it's never a bad thing to make the pitcher work, so you can work the count for the next batter on deck until then he's wait until the Playoffs at a chance to go yard.

good analogy.

i have one as well: woodson is chasing cards hoping to hit on the river.

terrible analogy. Thibs doesnt rest anyone. Doc only rested the old guys AFTER they won a title and Phil and Pop? Ahh... just so you know, we didnt hire a guy like that. We hired the interim coach left over from the last guy who quit this gig remember? Knicks wont ever get an elite coach like Pop or Jax. Why in gods name would a guy like that want to come here?

Hey.. if folks dont expect Melo to be Lebron, why is Woody expected to be Jax or Pop?

Sorry Fishmike you're out of your jurisdiction here. Thibs may not rest players as in Pop sending guys home or sitting them out whole games but he absolutely won't rush players back from injuries. He will rest guys in games and/or wisely use his bench, the only players he plays big minutes to are Deng and Noah. He'll also sit those guys if they aren't giving what he thinks they should give in games and doesn't try and beat teams at all costs ignoring troublesome characteristics.

You said Doc rested Old guys after they won a title....wrong he rested those guys because they were aging and getting injured/had injuries. When they won their chip together they were 31-32yrs old not OLD old..... coming out of prime sure. Big difference in being 35 or on the other side of it Jason Kidd/Sheed

You say Woody isn't Phil or Pop yet we're supposed to be CONTENDERS right...well we should play and be coached as such. I don't think Carlisle or Spo are Phil or Pop but they do take from them in some degrees with handling their team and players accordingly factoring in the big picture. Woody needs to take notes a little quicker these days.

They showed a shot chart and Melo's FG percentage he was in the 30s shooting from the left side of the floor. I hate the fact that the Knicks have him playing PF simple reason one of the worst shooting percentage for a PF. Woody is playing himself out with that move that is just stupid. Melo is a sf he can get away shooting 45% from that's pot but at PF. If he is going to man that position he better be shooting 50+ from the floor. Most MVPs shoot 50%.

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference...

If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

Career Playoff Averages

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 
03-04 DEN 4 4 35.8 0.328 0.182 0.800 1.8 6.5 8.3 2.8 1.2 0.0 4.25 2.75 15.0 
04-05 DEN 5 5 36.0 0.422 0.000 0.813 2.8 2.6 5.4 2.0 0.6 0.2 2.60 4.00 19.2 
05-06 DEN 5 5 38.6 0.333 0.000 0.750 2.4 4.2 6.6 2.8 0.8 0.2 3.00 4.00 21.0 
06-07 DEN 5 5 42.0 0.480 0.500 0.795 3.6 5.0 8.6 1.2 1.0 0.0 3.80 2.40 26.8 
07-08 DEN 4 4 36.5 0.364 0.250 0.828 4.8 4.8 9.5 2.0 0.5 0.2 3.00 4.25 22.5 
08-09 DEN 16 16 38.3 0.453 0.364 0.826 1.6 4.2 5.8 4.1 1.8 0.6 2.31 3.75 27.2 
09-10 DEN 6 6 42.3 0.464 0.316 0.877 2.3 6.2 8.5 3.3 2.0 0.5 3.50 4.33 30.7 
10-11 NYK 4 4 39.0 0.375 0.346 0.853 3.3 7.0 10.3 4.8 1.2 0.8 3.25 4.00 26.0 
11-12 NYK 5 5 40.8 0.419 0.222 0.756 2.6 5.6 8.2 2.2 1.2 0.2 2.80 4.20 27.8

nykmental... I know your not a supporter of MElo, that you simply enjoy his epic and incredible MVP caliber player every night, how do you explain these #s?

How you you explain that half the postseason series he's played in Melo hasnt shot 40% Because you would have us believe Melo's heroics only fall short because of his horrible supporting casts or impossible to beat matchups.. but his teams didnt even compete many years.

Hey, if Melo was shooting 50%, or hell... even his pedestrian career average of 45% ok.. I could see your point.

Here's my point:

Melo is not consistant enough to build a successful championship caliber team around. ITs not his leadership. Its not his smirk. Its not his talent. Its his game. Its a volume shooting game and the Knicks can not survive in the playoffs with one great game by Melo, followed by an OK game, followed by one of those 10-28 type shooting nights he's good for about every third or so.

The guy has played great this year and he's a very talented guy, but he's not a #1 scorer.

This is not hate, or anti Melo anything. This is the NBA and how the NBA game works (in case some are clueless). Now Im sure some brilliant folks will bring up Kobe. But if you watch any of those Laker teams Kobe was NEVER the #1 option, until 2 minutes maybe. The triangle is always about feeding the post and Shaq and the other bigs Kobe played with always got their touches. Also Kobe is the best wing defender since MJ. Go count all the first all NBA defensive team awards.

If the Knicks cant figure out how to feature Chandler or Amare or some combo of players who can get them easy high % buckets you know what plan B is: Its iso Melo and that is soooooo easy to play and defend.

If your going to win a title with a guy as inconsistant as Melo taking all the shots then you had better be epic in some other areas... such as:
defense
rebounding

Its just #s and possessions. If your guy is scoring at 41% (about 4-5 points below the league average) how are you going to win those playoff games? Whats your plan? I would love to hear it

gunsnewing wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference... If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

ok

Sorry for talking basketball.

Was only responding to your lack of insight type of post.

"Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25".

And got swept by the same Spurs team in which eliminated Carmelo during the 1st round. That's what happens when you're going up against elite Western Conference dynasty team(s)...

And those teams in which LeBron "singlehandedly" eliminated? During the first two rounds never even faced an opponent with an above .500 record.

OK

I get it Melo is great and Lebron sucks

Cleveland was pretty brutal before Lebron arrived why let facts get in the way. Lebron basically ended the last great Pistons team with a Historic Playoff performance. All I know George Karl had to come save Carmelo's behind in his second season after posting a 17-25 record after 40+ games....

Carmelo got handed his arse against Deron Williams and the Jazz this after having home court advantage guess who wasn't coaching....George Karl...lol

Carmelo lost to the Clippers in EPIC fashion you know a franchise up to that point fans figured to have the worst owner in all of sports.

Only managed to win 3gms across those 2 series, this is after he had been in the league for a while.

Post-Season failure and beyond....

Let NYM tell it he played the Spurs every year in the post-season.... yet an upstart Memphis team beat the Spurs in the first round although Ginolbi broke his hand game 2 I believe Grizzlies got the job done. Beat them in 6gms(with an injured Rudy Gay and a benched limited minutes O.J. Mayo).... but hey let the excuses stick for All-Times Sake for Melo!

Vmart wrote:They showed a shot chart and Melo's FG percentage he was in the 30s shooting from the left side of the floor. I hate the fact that the Knicks have him playing PF simple reason one of the worst shooting percentage for a PF. Woody is playing himself out with that move that is just stupid. Melo is a sf he can get away shooting 45% from that's pot but at PF. If he is going to man that position he better be shooting 50+ from the floor. Most MVPs shoot 50%.

Amen. Been saying this since Day 1

gunsnewing wrote:

Vmart wrote:They showed a shot chart and Melo's FG percentage he was in the 30s shooting from the left side of the floor. I hate the fact that the Knicks have him playing PF simple reason one of the worst shooting percentage for a PF. Woody is playing himself out with that move that is just stupid. Melo is a sf he can get away shooting 45% from that's pot but at PF. If he is going to man that position he better be shooting 50+ from the floor. Most MVPs shoot 50%.

Amen. Been saying this since Day 1

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Vmart wrote:They showed a shot chart and Melo's FG percentage he was in the 30s shooting from the left side of the floor. I hate the fact that the Knicks have him playing PF simple reason one of the worst shooting percentage for a PF. Woody is playing himself out with that move that is just stupid. Melo is a sf he can get away shooting 45% from that's pot but at PF. If he is going to man that position he better be shooting 50+ from the floor. Most MVPs shoot 50%.

Amen. Been saying this since Day 1

He's also one of the wort rebounding PFs in the game. If you move him back to SF, though, the spacing is going to be worse on offense and his scoring efficiency will probably return to his career average.

Isn't it suppose to drop anyway? Also is the spacing different with Brewer or Shump on the floor as teams consistently cheat off the 3 man?

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Vmart wrote:They showed a shot chart and Melo's FG percentage he was in the 30s shooting from the left side of the floor. I hate the fact that the Knicks have him playing PF simple reason one of the worst shooting percentage for a PF. Woody is playing himself out with that move that is just stupid. Melo is a sf he can get away shooting 45% from that's pot but at PF. If he is going to man that position he better be shooting 50+ from the floor. Most MVPs shoot 50%.

Amen. Been saying this since Day 1

He's also one of the wort rebounding PFs in the game. If you move him back to SF, though, the spacing is going to be worse on offense and his scoring efficiency will probably return to his career average.

Isn't it suppose to drop anyway? Also is the spacing different with Brewer or Shump on the floor as teams consistently cheat off the 3 man?

fishmike wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference...

If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

Im one of those clueless ones. Why are Melo's #s so poor in the playoffs compared to his regular season? Melo is a career 41% post season shooter and owns the worst postseason winning % of all active players for the last 20 years.

Career Playoff Averages

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 
03-04 DEN 4 4 35.8 0.328 0.182 0.800 1.8 6.5 8.3 2.8 1.2 0.0 4.25 2.75 15.0 
04-05 DEN 5 5 36.0 0.422 0.000 0.813 2.8 2.6 5.4 2.0 0.6 0.2 2.60 4.00 19.2 
05-06 DEN 5 5 38.6 0.333 0.000 0.750 2.4 4.2 6.6 2.8 0.8 0.2 3.00 4.00 21.0 
06-07 DEN 5 5 42.0 0.480 0.500 0.795 3.6 5.0 8.6 1.2 1.0 0.0 3.80 2.40 26.8 
07-08 DEN 4 4 36.5 0.364 0.250 0.828 4.8 4.8 9.5 2.0 0.5 0.2 3.00 4.25 22.5 
08-09 DEN 16 16 38.3 0.453 0.364 0.826 1.6 4.2 5.8 4.1 1.8 0.6 2.31 3.75 27.2 
09-10 DEN 6 6 42.3 0.464 0.316 0.877 2.3 6.2 8.5 3.3 2.0 0.5 3.50 4.33 30.7 
10-11 NYK 4 4 39.0 0.375 0.346 0.853 3.3 7.0 10.3 4.8 1.2 0.8 3.25 4.00 26.0 
11-12 NYK 5 5 40.8 0.419 0.222 0.756 2.6 5.6 8.2 2.2 1.2 0.2 2.80 4.20 27.8

Career -- 54 54 38.8 0.419

nykmental... I know your not a supporter of MElo, that you simply enjoy his epic and incredible MVP caliber player every night, how do you explain these #s?

How you you explain that half the postseason series he's played in Melo hasnt shot 40% Because you would have us believe Melo's heroics only fall short because of his horrible supporting casts or impossible to beat matchups.. but his teams didnt even compete many years.

Hey, if Melo was shooting 50%, or hell... even his pedestrian career average of 45% ok.. I could see your point.

Here's my point:

Melo is not consistant enough to build a successful championship caliber team around. ITs not his leadership. Its not his smirk. Its not his talent. Its his game. Its a volume shooting game and the Knicks can not survive in the playoffs with one great game by Melo, followed by an OK game, followed by one of those 10-28 type shooting nights he's good for about every third or so.

The guy has played great this year and he's a very talented guy, but he's not a #1 scorer.

This is not hate, or anti Melo anything. This is the NBA and how the NBA game works (in case some are clueless). Now Im sure some brilliant folks will bring up Kobe. But if you watch any of those Laker teams Kobe was NEVER the #1 option, until 2 minutes maybe. The triangle is always about feeding the post and Shaq and the other bigs Kobe played with always got their touches. Also Kobe is the best wing defender since MJ. Go count all the first all NBA defensive team awards.

If the Knicks cant figure out how to feature Chandler or Amare or some combo of players who can get them easy high % buckets you know what plan B is: Its iso Melo and that is soooooo easy to play and defend.

If your going to win a title with a guy as inconsistant as Melo taking all the shots then you had better be epic in some other areas... such as:
defense
rebounding

Its just #s and possessions. If your guy is scoring at 41% (about 4-5 points below the league average) how are you going to win those playoff games? Whats your plan? I would love to hear it

i wish i could format charts like that ha ha.

but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25

And Carmelo Anthony was drafted by an awful Nuggets franchise in which missed the postseason with losing records during 8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony.

Melo still led Denver to the postseason during his first two years in the league, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference while LeBron James completely failed to lead his teams to the playoffs during his first two seasons, within the laughing stock joke of a weak Eastern Conference at that.

Melo led his Nuggets to a winning record of 92-72 along with two trips to the postseason during Melo's first two years within the extremely difficult Western Conference while LeBron James led Cleveland to a losing record of 77-87 along with two seasons of no postseason play during the laughing stock joke of an extremely weak Eastern Conference.
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Funny how you left out the fact that LeBron was swept 0-4 during the NBA Finals. That's what happens when you're going up against the elite dynasty era teams of the Western Conference...

If only the tables were reversed and LeBron were drafted into an elite Western Conference while Carmelo was gift wrapped a joke of an Eastern Conference. LeBron would've had so much postseason failure throughout his entire career that he wouldn't have known which NBA superstar(s) to run to next.

During the season in which LeBron was swept by the Spurs during the NBA Finals, his Cavs were only 50-32 as the 2nd seed of a laughing stock joke of an Eastern Conference. That record of 50-32 would've only been the 6th seed of the Western Conference and LeBron, once again, would have been eliminated by Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan and the Spurs during the first round of the playoffs.

This was the postseason picture heading into LeBron's "amazing" trip to the Finals before being swept by an elite Western Conference dynasty.

Detroit: 53-29.
Cleveland: 50-32.
Toronto: 47-35.
Miami: 44-38.
Chicago: 49-33.
New Jersey: 41-41.
Washington: 41-41.
Orlando: 40-42.

Dallas: 67-15.
Phoenix: 61-21.
San Antonio: 58-24.
Utah: 51-31.
Houston: 52-30.
Denver: 45-37.
Lakers: 42-40.
Golden State: 42-40.

Congrats to LeBron for eliminating laughing stock jokes of Washington during the first (41-41) and NJ without Kenyon Martin (41-41) during the 2nd round. Detroit would've been the 4th/5th best team behind Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio that season. You know who Melo seen during the first round of 2006-2007? The same San Antonio Spurs team in which swept LeBron and the Cavs during the Finals.

But yet critics talk down on Melo's postseason appearances. Some are completely clueless when talking basketball.

Im one of those clueless ones. Why are Melo's #s so poor in the playoffs compared to his regular season? Melo is a career 41% post season shooter and owns the worst postseason winning % of all active players for the last 20 years.

Career Playoff Averages

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 
03-04 DEN 4 4 35.8 0.328 0.182 0.800 1.8 6.5 8.3 2.8 1.2 0.0 4.25 2.75 15.0 
04-05 DEN 5 5 36.0 0.422 0.000 0.813 2.8 2.6 5.4 2.0 0.6 0.2 2.60 4.00 19.2 
05-06 DEN 5 5 38.6 0.333 0.000 0.750 2.4 4.2 6.6 2.8 0.8 0.2 3.00 4.00 21.0 
06-07 DEN 5 5 42.0 0.480 0.500 0.795 3.6 5.0 8.6 1.2 1.0 0.0 3.80 2.40 26.8 
07-08 DEN 4 4 36.5 0.364 0.250 0.828 4.8 4.8 9.5 2.0 0.5 0.2 3.00 4.25 22.5 
08-09 DEN 16 16 38.3 0.453 0.364 0.826 1.6 4.2 5.8 4.1 1.8 0.6 2.31 3.75 27.2 
09-10 DEN 6 6 42.3 0.464 0.316 0.877 2.3 6.2 8.5 3.3 2.0 0.5 3.50 4.33 30.7 
10-11 NYK 4 4 39.0 0.375 0.346 0.853 3.3 7.0 10.3 4.8 1.2 0.8 3.25 4.00 26.0 
11-12 NYK 5 5 40.8 0.419 0.222 0.756 2.6 5.6 8.2 2.2 1.2 0.2 2.80 4.20 27.8

Career -- 54 54 38.8 0.419

nykmental... I know your not a supporter of MElo, that you simply enjoy his epic and incredible MVP caliber player every night, how do you explain these #s?

How you you explain that half the postseason series he's played in Melo hasnt shot 40% Because you would have us believe Melo's heroics only fall short because of his horrible supporting casts or impossible to beat matchups.. but his teams didnt even compete many years.

Hey, if Melo was shooting 50%, or hell... even his pedestrian career average of 45% ok.. I could see your point.

Here's my point:

Melo is not consistant enough to build a successful championship caliber team around. ITs not his leadership. Its not his smirk. Its not his talent. Its his game. Its a volume shooting game and the Knicks can not survive in the playoffs with one great game by Melo, followed by an OK game, followed by one of those 10-28 type shooting nights he's good for about every third or so.

The guy has played great this year and he's a very talented guy, but he's not a #1 scorer.

This is not hate, or anti Melo anything. This is the NBA and how the NBA game works (in case some are clueless). Now Im sure some brilliant folks will bring up Kobe. But if you watch any of those Laker teams Kobe was NEVER the #1 option, until 2 minutes maybe. The triangle is always about feeding the post and Shaq and the other bigs Kobe played with always got their touches. Also Kobe is the best wing defender since MJ. Go count all the first all NBA defensive team awards.

If the Knicks cant figure out how to feature Chandler or Amare or some combo of players who can get them easy high % buckets you know what plan B is: Its iso Melo and that is soooooo easy to play and defend.

If your going to win a title with a guy as inconsistant as Melo taking all the shots then you had better be epic in some other areas... such as:
defense
rebounding

Its just #s and possessions. If your guy is scoring at 41% (about 4-5 points below the league average) how are you going to win those playoff games? Whats your plan? I would love to hear it

i wish i could format charts like that ha ha.

but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

Woodson's motivated Carmelo Anthony enough to not only lead the entire league in scoring but also rank 3rd in MVP voting behind only LeBron and Durant. Melo's been motivated enough to lead a team that's been hit with injury after injury to the 5th strongest record in all of basketball, 2nd seed of the Entire Eastern Conference and 1st place of our Atlantic Division ala something in which we haven't won dating back to 1993-1994 (19 years ago).

And it's funny how you oh so love your Danilo Gallinari of the Nuggets but yet harp all over Melo's rebound/assist numbers?

Melo:: 29.0 points, 6.4 boards & 2.8 assists per game. FG Percentage of .454%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .411%. Player Efficiency Rating of 24.55.
Gallo: 17.2 points, 5.5 boards & 2.4 assists per game. FG Percentage of .424%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .372%. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.26.

Not turning this into yet another Mello vs. an overrated Gallo thread, just pointing how much of a little hypocritical hypocrite you've always been in regards to Carmelo Anthony.

NYKMentality wrote:

dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

Woodson's motivated Carmelo Anthony enough to not only lead the entire league in scoring but also rank 3rd in MVP voting behind only LeBron and Durant. Melo's been motivated enough to lead a team that's been hit with injury after injury to the 5th strongest record in all of basketball, 2nd seed of the Entire Eastern Conference and 1st place of our Atlantic Division ala something in which we haven't won dating back to 1993-1994 (19 years ago).

And it's funny how you oh so love your Danilo Gallinari of the Nuggets but yet harp all over Melo's rebound/assist numbers?

Melo:: 29.0 points, 6.4 boards & 2.8 assists per game. FG Percentage of .454%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .411%. Player Efficiency Rating of 24.55.
Gallo: 17.2 points, 5.5 boards & 2.4 assists per game. FG Percentage of .424%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .372%. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.26.

Not turning this into yet another Mello vs. an overrated Gallo thread, just pointing how much of a little hypocritical hypocrite you've always been in regards to Carmelo Anthony.

Why bring Galo up? He is not in the same breathe as Melo to constantly bring him up is an insult.

yellowboy90 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

Woodson's motivated Carmelo Anthony enough to not only lead the entire league in scoring but also rank 3rd in MVP voting behind only LeBron and Durant. Melo's been motivated enough to lead a team that's been hit with injury after injury to the 5th strongest record in all of basketball, 2nd seed of the Entire Eastern Conference and 1st place of our Atlantic Division ala something in which we haven't won dating back to 1993-1994 (19 years ago).

And it's funny how you oh so love your Danilo Gallinari of the Nuggets but yet harp all over Melo's rebound/assist numbers?

Melo:: 29.0 points, 6.4 boards & 2.8 assists per game. FG Percentage of .454%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .411%. Player Efficiency Rating of 24.55.
Gallo: 17.2 points, 5.5 boards & 2.4 assists per game. FG Percentage of .424%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .372%. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.26.

Not turning this into yet another Mello vs. an overrated Gallo thread, just pointing how much of a little hypocritical hypocrite you've always been in regards to Carmelo Anthony.

Why bring Galo up? He is not in the same breathe as Melo to constantly bring him up is an insult.

My thoughts exactly. Only bringing up Melo due to the simple fact that the same exact person who's talked up Gallo over Melo dating back to the trade, has now became the same poster harping all over Melo's rebound and assist numbers despite the fact that Carmelo Anthony leads Gallo in both assists and rebounds per game.

Can you at least see how hypocritical this comes across and/or appears through my eyes? My post above actually had nothing to do with Melo vs. Gallo but everything to do with hypocritical hypocrites in regards to Carmelo.

yellowboy90 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.

if woodson were coaching properly he would insist that melo put more energy into defending than scoring and insist that he move the ball even if he has an open shot.

Woodson's motivated Carmelo Anthony enough to not only lead the entire league in scoring but also rank 3rd in MVP voting behind only LeBron and Durant. Melo's been motivated enough to lead a team that's been hit with injury after injury to the 5th strongest record in all of basketball, 2nd seed of the Entire Eastern Conference and 1st place of our Atlantic Division ala something in which we haven't won dating back to 1993-1994 (19 years ago).

And it's funny how you oh so love your Danilo Gallinari of the Nuggets but yet harp all over Melo's rebound/assist numbers?

Melo:: 29.0 points, 6.4 boards & 2.8 assists per game. FG Percentage of .454%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .411%. Player Efficiency Rating of 24.55.
Gallo: 17.2 points, 5.5 boards & 2.4 assists per game. FG Percentage of .424%. 3PT Shooting Percentage of .372%. Player Efficiency Rating of 17.26.

Not turning this into yet another Mello vs. an overrated Gallo thread, just pointing how much of a little hypocritical hypocrite you've always been in regards to Carmelo Anthony.

Why bring Galo up? He is not in the same breathe as Melo to constantly bring him up is an insult.

This is what happens when such arguments sit on a foundation of sand. This is his crutch so-to-speak