Knicks · It seems like to me the new CBA rules and Laws seem to target the Knicks. They keep thier foot on our neck.here's why (page 1)

Papabear Says

We have to pay for the small markets who continue to loose money yet everything is in thier favor.
With the new CBA rules it seems to help the small basketball markets and hurt the large markets.
One of the many rules that bothers me is the rule that a team can't restructure a players contract. For example if the Knicks wanted to restructure Amare's contract to pay him 14 million for the next 3years and a payout of the rest over 5 years and off the books. Or maybe the CBA should scrap the whole damn thing and let the players get what a team is willing to pay them with out a cap. With no cap the knicks would be able to spend 100 million per year. Being a little more serious the new rulings are lopsided against the Knicks because they will never play down to a top lottery pick and the small markets are counting on that. Some teams are lottery picks every year. Cleveland should not be able to be a lottery pick this year and should it be for the Wizards, Charlote, and a few others who are always in the tank and it's more of them than the big City teams. With these new rules in place I can't see the knicks doing anything but blowing up thier whole team and starting from scratch. Then watch the NBA ratings. Or just refuse to pay the tax. Look if you pull the Knicks, Lakers, Boston, Miami, Chicago,and a few more teams from this league this NBA will fold.

yea, the thing is that all teams are part of the same company, so it is in the interest of large market teams to prop up the nba brand,

how it works out is that:

big market teams basically finance their opposition so that they may rake in the big cash, and the entire league, or the entire nba industry, gets payed,

big teams like new york and la and boston pay the rest of the nba to play against them

The CBA doesn't target the Knicks specifically but attempts to reduce the monetary advantages they get by playing in a large, wealthy city. The fact that we won't tank for lottery picks has nothing to do with us being in a large market and everything to do with Dolan; the Lakers don't tank because they're always good and don't need to while Boston and Chicago have tanked at various points over the last decade. NBA ratings have been pretty good for awhile now even when we've been mediocre the last couple of years and terrible for years before that. And sure, the league would probably be in trouble without the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, Heat, and Bulls but where would they be without the NBA? The NBA institutes these rules so they can look more like the NFL, a sport that continues to gain in popularity, and less like MLB, a sport who's popularity decreases every year because pretty much the same handful of teams are able to compete while no one else is able to have any sustained success.

the cba was done to protect owners from themselves (just like most other sports cbas). seems like they tried to set things up to eliminate problems the owners see and created enough new problems -- poison pills, still lots of over paid guys, possibly inability to build long term winners due to tax penalties... i think a number of folks here were worried the owners are their own worst enemies and they would overreact to existing issues (the lebron team up, max contract length, not having a hard cap, etc).

New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

It makes you appreciate how smart Glen Grunwald is. Both Cope and Prigs were under the radar signings. Both guys have a ton of experience and they play for the rookie free agent minimum. Brewer was a starter and played for the vet minimum. Gadz, Jorts, and Jordans were all partially guaranteed minimums that allowed him to include them in a sign and trade. He has been very resourceful in a tough situation. Can't believe he got a second rounder, and a trade exception to allow the Knicks to sign KMart.

CrushAlot wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

It makes you appreciate how smart Glen Grunwald is. Both Cope and Prigs were under the radar signings. Both guys have a ton of experience and they play for the rookie free agent minimum. Brewer was a starter and played for the vet minimum. Gadz, Jorts, and Jordans were all partially guaranteed minimums that allowed him to include them in a sign and trade. He has been very resourceful in a tough situation. Can't believe he got a second rounder, and a trade exception to allow the Knicks to sign KMart.

This is why White is still on the team, because his second year is not or only partially guaranteed. I think he will try to sign KMart to a 2 year 2nd year non-guaranteed contact too. I doubt Kenyon accepts this though. If Wallace doesn't heal I bet they pick up another FA to help in a trade. If I was them I would cut Kurt and pick up Donte Greene. Tell Kurt thanks and hope he gets picked up by another team but if he doesn't there is FO job waiting for him next year.

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

It makes you appreciate how smart Glen Grunwald is. Both Cope and Prigs were under the radar signings. Both guys have a ton of experience and they play for the rookie free agent minimum. Brewer was a starter and played for the vet minimum. Gadz, Jorts, and Jordans were all partially guaranteed minimums that allowed him to include them in a sign and trade. He has been very resourceful in a tough situation. Can't believe he got a second rounder, and a trade exception to allow the Knicks to sign KMart.

This is why White is still on the team, because his second year is not or only partially guaranteed. I think he will try to sign KMart to a 2 year 2nd year non-guaranteed contact too. I doubt Kenyon accepts this though. If Wallace doesn't heal I bet they pick up another FA to help in a trade. If I was them I would cut Kurt and pick up Donte Greene. Tell Kurt thanks and hope he gets picked up by another team but if he doesn't there is FO job waiting for him next year.

Is Donte Green available? The guy is a tremendous talent.

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

It makes you appreciate how smart Glen Grunwald is. Both Cope and Prigs were under the radar signings. Both guys have a ton of experience and they play for the rookie free agent minimum. Brewer was a starter and played for the vet minimum. Gadz, Jorts, and Jordans were all partially guaranteed minimums that allowed him to include them in a sign and trade. He has been very resourceful in a tough situation. Can't believe he got a second rounder, and a trade exception to allow the Knicks to sign KMart.

This is why White is still on the team, because his second year is not or only partially guaranteed. I think he will try to sign KMart to a 2 year 2nd year non-guaranteed contact too. I doubt Kenyon accepts this though. If Wallace doesn't heal I bet they pick up another FA to help in a trade. If I was them I would cut Kurt and pick up Donte Greene. Tell Kurt thanks and hope he gets picked up by another team but if he doesn't there is FO job waiting for him next year.

Is Donte Green available? The guy is a tremendous talent.

Yes, he is a FA. He was never signed in the summer. I guess he had an injury that just healed. If I was NY with a lack of picks and young talent and there is a FA like him sitting out there I would do my best to go after him. I know they may like Kurt but its not like they signed him in FA. He was just part of a trade. Donte does have a lot of shortcomings though but sign him put him in the D-league and bring him up when he is ready.

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

I understand that's what the NBA is hoping but, I believe, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets at least make enough money themselves and their owners have enough money that they won't care about the increasing for teams over the luxury tax.

Dgreene is a friend of mine who WORHSIPS melo. Lol yes i said that to his face.lol. That injury mightve been a wake up call to him. In my opinion he wasnt taking the game too seriously. With this rehab process he has learned hard work

VCoug wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

I understand that's what the NBA is hoping but, I believe, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets at least make enough money themselves and their owners have enough money that they won't care about the increasing for teams over the luxury tax.

the knicks already claimed to not sign lin cuz of the tax hit. it may be a case by case basis for who they may take the hit on. however if a FO thinks a team isnt in position to make a run, they probably will make efforts to avoid the tax. also note tax paying teams get more restrictions on fa signings, s&t's.

The new CBA does not target Big Market teams what about the small market teams who end up in the lottery often and have to pay those high dollar salary slots for unproven talent?

Grunny has not proven anything Crush except put us in position to desperately look for washed up marginal talent that's high risk shrinking the window at an alarming rate, he also puts us in immediate position to bid against the market to keep talent such as Copeland and Prigoni should they play another season. We also stand the chance to not have a solid core that plays together year after year, you know like most CONTENDING teams do because of roster shuffle. He's clearly overpaid for 3 players currently on the roster signed this summer.

This seems like a excuse to me. the CBA hasnt been the Knicks worst enemy the Knicks have been their own. For the past 12 years we have made bad trades/signings/draft choices

StarksEwing1 wrote:This seems like a excuse to me. the CBA hasnt been the Knicks worst enemy the Knicks have been their own. For the past 12 years we have made bad trades/signings/draft choices

ya. this is why having a good FO will be and has been important. remains to be seen what the knicks have going forward.

Knicks dont want to rebuild. The Knicks FO wants maximum ticket prices.

StarksEwing1 wrote:This seems like a excuse to me. the CBA hasnt been the Knicks worst enemy the Knicks have been their own. For the past 12 years we have made bad trades/signings/draft choices

BINGO!!!

Owners in general continue to be irresponsible with paying or trading for high priced players, then force their GMs to make questionable trades because of it. Never more so than with this franchise the past decade up to now...hence trying to trade Amar'e past 2yrs.

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:New CBA just means bad deals get spread more evenly. Also makes Draft picks more valuable.

The best part is it makes extensions less appealing. So guys should hit FA more often. I think it will work out better for large market teams.

Probably, by creating stricter and stricter luxury taxes the NBA will potentially separate the haves and have-nots even more. Teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Nets, and maybe the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat should be able to pay the stricter taxes without much problem while other teams, like the Thunder and Spurs, that might have been able to afford the old luxury tax will find it much more difficult to afford the new ones. If the NBA wants more parity like in the NFL then they need to institute a hard cap instead of a luxury tax but that would almost definitely require non-guaranteed contracts for the players which the Union will almost definitely, and understandable, never agree to.

i think the hope is the fear of tax payments will force parity. teams will unload guys they may not otherwise have turned out. we shall see how teams like the spurs handle things and other teams go as cba impacts start to arrive. knicks, thunder, grizzzzzles already traded or passed up on guys cuz of tax implications and the kings perhaps did so in a more silly manner due to pending sale.

i agree that this will put tons more pressure to have a solid FO. you cant afford to make too many mistakes without getting stuck with possibly a huge bill and poor results. draft cuz o the rookie scale will make doing well there a premium.

I understand that's what the NBA is hoping but, I believe, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets at least make enough money themselves and their owners have enough money that they won't care about the increasing for teams over the luxury tax.

the knicks already claimed to not sign lin cuz of the tax hit. it may be a case by case basis for who they may take the hit on. however if a FO thinks a team isnt in position to make a run, they probably will make efforts to avoid the tax. also note tax paying teams get more restrictions on fa signings, s&t's.

I know they claimed that but I don't believe it. We'll know better after this coming offseason; if we trade/sell our 1st round pick and don't use our MLE then we'll know for sure that Dolan is afraid of paying the tax.

3G4G wrote:The new CBA does not target Big Market teams what about the small market teams who end up in the lottery often and have to pay those high dollar salary slots for unproven talent?

Grunny has not proven anything Crush except put us in position to desperately look for washed up marginal talent that's high risk shrinking the window at an alarming rate, he also puts us in immediate position to bid against the market to keep talent such as Copeland and Prigoni should they play another season. We also stand the chance to not have a solid core that plays together year after year, you know like most CONTENDING teams do because of roster shuffle. He's clearly overpaid for 3 players currently on the roster signed this summer.

If you think Grunwald put the Knicks in a bad position then you would have to disagree with amnestying Chauncey and getting Tyson. However, the Knicks seemed to be committed to the three star plan en vogue in Miami at the time and it was only Amare's second year. I think he has shown an incredible ability to accomplish stuff when it appeared nothing could be done.