This is just too much to sift through but I'll say I loved the team pre-trade. My fave was actually Fields back then, but I loved Amar'e, Gallo, Felton, & Chandler. Started liking Moz when Turiaf went down and he got some minutes. It was a young, energetic team that was fun to watch. They weren't going to win a 'chip as constructed, but that team could have been really dangerous if Melo had just held on til the offseason and come in as a FA.
Denver in many ways reminds me of that squad - they've built a team that is really, really good & fun to watch. I don't think either team will win a 'chip - the deal with the NBA is that you need a superstar to win + a star or two + very good complimentary pieces. You need the entire package which both the Knicks and Nugs lack in different ways. But I will say that the Nugs got the better end of the deal b/c they have youth & legs on their side. (And draft picks)
NYKMentality wrote:MS wrote:The point is. If everyone believes we didn't give up everything and they gave up a superstar how are we still not as good as them.
We're actually better than Denver. Not only do we have a better record when compared to Denver, but we've also beat Denver here in 2012-2013. 1-0.
How about we take a look at three seasons before landing Melo.
DEN of 07-08: 50-32.
NYK of 07-08: 23-59.
DEN of 08-09: 54-28.
NYK of 08-09: 32-50.
DEN of 09-10: 53-29.
NYK of 09-10: 29-53.
Gallo was on two of those Knicks teams while Melo was on all three of those Denver teams.
DEN at the time of the trade: 32-24 (4 of those loses were games in which Melo didn't play).
NYK at the time of the trade: 28-26.
lets stop acting as if the Nuggets "just started to win" once they landed Gallo. It's becoming a freaking joke. Melo was the one who rebuilt that franchise around while changing the entire culture of Denver Nuggets basketball, not Gallo. Denver even changed their logo/jersey during Melo's rookie season.
DEN of 11-12: 38-28.
NYK of 11-12: 36-30.
NYK of 12-13: 33-20.
DEN of 12-13: 35-22.
As you can see, Gallo was traded to a team that's won for years on end while Melo was on a team that always did more losing than winning. After the Nuggets got Gallo? They've done more losing than when under Melo when compared to the Knicks doing more winning with Melo than we did with Gallo.
Knicks are a MUCH better team/franchise due to Carmelo Anthony. But, the same can not be said for Gallo. The Nuggets have been a good franchise since the drafting on Melo, and that has nothing to do with Gallo. None whatsoever.
Has more to do with George Karl than anything else as he's been there close to the time of Melo's arrival and thereafter. You're thread title says "not to go back and revisit the trade" yet you want the Scussin to go back prior to the trade.....
RUT ROH!!!!
Please keep stripping yourself down to nothing....
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:MS wrote:If Carmelo Anthony is such a great player and the superstar everyone believes he is, then why aren't the Knicks a much better team than the Nuggets?2013
Knicks 33-20
Nuggets 35-22
2012
Knicks 36-30
Nuggets 38-28
That's all you really have to look at. Where the Knicks a great team before the trade? No. Are they a great team after the trade? NO.
Players aside, the Knicks future is non existent. We have no youth outside of Shumpert, traded every pick we have ever acquired and signed is aging or useless.
Do you think we beat Denver in the Playoffs, I am going to say it's doubtful. Would the Rockets beat us in the playoffs the probability is high. We don't do well in the half court or on the break. The East is a weak conference and yes we have the 3 seed, but that could change very quickly. This team, this franchise never deserves the benefit of the doubt. One playoff win, zero mental toughness and excuses, is NY Knick Basketball. Selfless wins games. Selfish is what this team has become.
Denver is where they are (or remained) because of coming out of Lawson and the drafting of Faried.
No spin needed.
Trading Felt-trash for Miller was pretty pretty good too.
More generally, they are where they are because they picked the right players to build with.
I doubt they would trade Gallo and Lawson for Melo right now. Or Gallo and Faried for Melo.
Maybe they wouldn't but neither would the Knicks (or most other teams). Denver would not make the trade because of previous history.
Also, you are not comparing apples to apples based on salary.
Did Denver pick the "right" players to build around? Time will tell.
They're a young group. They're most likely only going to get better.
Yeah, maybe they'll go back to playing .600 basketball every season like they did when they had Melo. I'd bet they even go to the WCF again, just like they did when they had Melo.
If only every team had Gallo and Lawson to build around!
Time will tell.
Enjoy those Nugget games!
Wait, you're actually bragging about the playoff track record of the guy with the worst playoff winning percentage in decades?
No I'm saying .600 ball and the WCF is better than .500 ball and 1st round only so far. No bragging involved. See how that works?
Denver has struggled when Gallo has been out but I'm pretty sure they're well in the .600s when he's played.
Actually even counting the games he's missed, they've gone .599 post-trade. That's much better than we have even though we're in the leastern conference.
Rules to live by:
"the benchmark of success is that you acocmplish what you set out to do".
Melo did not have to opt out of a max year deal and got extended with bird rights max. He also got to NYC. IF not knicks, he would have been a net.
Denver wanted young players and picks. The fact they got that and really had no decline (this point really gets to the Mooby's)points to a successful trade. With those assets in place it allowed them to promote players and make trades.
Knicks got a marquee player to satisfy the "Demanding" NY basketball fan, got a star to promote in the face of a Brooklyn onslaught of publicity and by amnisty of BIllups the ability to Pay him FOURTEENMILLINDOLLARS and at the same time pay Tyson FOURTEENMILLIONDOLLARS! Few teams can do that btw.
The real question is could the knicks have been at this same stage with other moves and trades? Did bringing in AMare make it more necessary to get Melo at that moment? Maybe. Did we overpay? Have to factor in many things including the draft picks that have yet to materialize.
If you want to simplify it as the OP did, then its really easy. Its not.
ONly way is look at the record since the trade and the next 5 years.
To me thus far its a draw. Everyone got what they wanted.
tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Nalod wrote:Pre trade team at one point was 6 games over .500 before trade rumors became a big distraction to a young team of players not experienced with trades.The team was improving, it was young, it needed a more experineced post player than Mozgov, and we were running with Felton who was an upgrade to Duhan!
With so many combinations of players, trades, free agents and picks to to in so many directions there is no proof of anything.
The proof is in the record. Denver has done well for itself, so has the kNicks.
Can't imagine why the dead horse won't come back to life?
I did not see the team getting better. They were just getting worse. Amare and Felton were flying backwards and we sold Gallo when his stock was up. I was sad to part with Chandler though and did not like that Moz was thrown in.
let me ask you this.. if that team was flying backwards what the heck is happening to this team now... especially considering the salaries, age and constant injury problems?
We suck! And Amare is even further tanking.
Has nothing to do with the trade. It has to do with how management has blundered for numerous years.
If writers in Denver thought/think that Denver won the trade, I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years.. .well that trade IMO was part of the blunder.. If you can't see the direction this team was going before the trade, the options we had, the talent we had to work with and the flexibility, then honestly, I just can't help you ever see it...
I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
I think there was a clear winner... Denver could have lost carmelo for nothing.. instead they obtained pieces and assets that are not only helping now but will prove valuable in the future... the knicks are the one's that had to empty their coffers... I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years
How can I say that? I think if you work on it a bit you can extrapolate how this conclusion is attainable.
I think there was a clear winner...
That is really nice that YOUR feel that way. Most people don't / feel indifferent.
I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
Read this carefully and then let me know how you think this statement/logic would hold up in court. As flawed of a statement as I've seen.
Empty Coffers? Love these claims!
Love your passion though. Love is blind.
I think that Denver is a better team - BANG!! Now you can take that statement and apply the faulty logic that you normally do.
And btw, I have never said that NY has won the trade. I said/say that it is unclear. Oh ... AND ALL THOSE PICKS - may change my mind.
mrKnickShot wrote:tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Nalod wrote:Pre trade team at one point was 6 games over .500 before trade rumors became a big distraction to a young team of players not experienced with trades.The team was improving, it was young, it needed a more experineced post player than Mozgov, and we were running with Felton who was an upgrade to Duhan!
With so many combinations of players, trades, free agents and picks to to in so many directions there is no proof of anything.
The proof is in the record. Denver has done well for itself, so has the kNicks.
Can't imagine why the dead horse won't come back to life?
I did not see the team getting better. They were just getting worse. Amare and Felton were flying backwards and we sold Gallo when his stock was up. I was sad to part with Chandler though and did not like that Moz was thrown in.
let me ask you this.. if that team was flying backwards what the heck is happening to this team now... especially considering the salaries, age and constant injury problems?
We suck! And Amare is even further tanking.
Has nothing to do with the trade. It has to do with how management has blundered for numerous years.
If writers in Denver thought/think that Denver won the trade, I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years.. .well that trade IMO was part of the blunder.. If you can't see the direction this team was going before the trade, the options we had, the talent we had to work with and the flexibility, then honestly, I just can't help you ever see it...
I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
I think there was a clear winner... Denver could have lost carmelo for nothing.. instead they obtained pieces and assets that are not only helping now but will prove valuable in the future... the knicks are the one's that had to empty their coffers... I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years
How can I say that? I think if you work on it a bit you can extrapolate how this conclusion is attainable.
I think there was a clear winner...
That is really nice that YOUR feel that way. Most people don't / feel indifferent.
I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
Read this carefully and then let me know how you think this statement/logic would hold up in court. As flawed of a statement as I've seen.
Empty Coffers? Love these claims!
Love your passion though. Love is blind.
I think that Denver is a better team - BANG!! Now you can take that statement and apply the faulty logic that you normally do.
And btw, I have never said that NY has won the trade. I said/say that it is unclear. Oh ... AND ALL THOSE PICKS - may change my mind.
They're in the tougher conference but there winning percentage is about 35 points higher than ours post-trade. It's pretty generous to say that it's even. The actual Ws and Ls don't point to that conclusion.
mrKnickShot wrote:tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Nalod wrote:Pre trade team at one point was 6 games over .500 before trade rumors became a big distraction to a young team of players not experienced with trades.The team was improving, it was young, it needed a more experineced post player than Mozgov, and we were running with Felton who was an upgrade to Duhan!
With so many combinations of players, trades, free agents and picks to to in so many directions there is no proof of anything.
The proof is in the record. Denver has done well for itself, so has the kNicks.
Can't imagine why the dead horse won't come back to life?
I did not see the team getting better. They were just getting worse. Amare and Felton were flying backwards and we sold Gallo when his stock was up. I was sad to part with Chandler though and did not like that Moz was thrown in.
let me ask you this.. if that team was flying backwards what the heck is happening to this team now... especially considering the salaries, age and constant injury problems?
We suck! And Amare is even further tanking.
Has nothing to do with the trade. It has to do with how management has blundered for numerous years.
If writers in Denver thought/think that Denver won the trade, I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years.. .well that trade IMO was part of the blunder.. If you can't see the direction this team was going before the trade, the options we had, the talent we had to work with and the flexibility, then honestly, I just can't help you ever see it...
I think that most of the country think that there is/was no clear winner.
I think there was a clear winner... Denver could have lost carmelo for nothing.. instead they obtained pieces and assets that are not only helping now but will prove valuable in the future... the knicks are the one's that had to empty their coffers... I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
how can you say this has nothing to do with the trade and then say management has blundered for numerous years
How can I say that? I think if you work on it a bit you can extrapolate how this conclusion is attainable.
I think there was a clear winner...
That is really nice that YOUR feel that way. Most people don't / feel indifferent.
I say denver was the clear winner here because they were at risk of losing an asset for nothing, and they came out great.... what more could they have asked for?
Read this carefully and then let me know how you think this statement/logic would hold up in court. As flawed of a statement as I've seen.
Empty Coffers? Love these claims!
Love your passion though. Love is blind.
I think that Denver is a better team - BANG!! Now you can take that statement and apply the faulty logic that you normally do.
And btw, I have never said that NY has won the trade. I said/say that it is unclear. Oh ... AND ALL THOSE PICKS - may change my mind.
dude it is simple... management has made many blunders.. the trade being one of them.. I don't care how this will hold up in court as we are not in court... when you think of it, the way many of the arguments are formed here.. None of them will hold up in court, so what is the point of that comment?
And btw, I have never said that NY has won the trade. I said/say that it is unclear.
thats fine... ok... but what you are trying to do is make is seem as if denver would be just as good had they let carmelo walk.. you said that.. that is not the case, there is no proof of that ,actually there is proof against that.. but in order for that to be so, you would have to give credit to the main components of that trade.. namely gallo.. and that is hard for you to swallow and evidence of that is the statement you made about denver being just as good if they had let carmelo walk.. that is just not true...
I think that Denver is a better team - BANG!!
BANG, so do I, and I also think they got the better of the trade.. BANG..
nice talking to ya...
time to grab some lunch.... tired of eating yours..... 
later..
Gallo is an ok player. They could have let carmelo walk and spend that money on an equal or better player than Gallo. Once again, your argument is flawed.
As much as you take offense to people not believing in Gallo as a very good player, many feel that he has been at least a bit underwhelming.
You get so feisty when you defend or feel like you need to defend Gallo
It really is kind of adorable.
I still can't believe this discussion still goes on...
Both teams won the trade, because they both got what they wanted...plain and simple.
When Gallo gets traded he will then proceed to bad mouth Denver. Good thing posts like this will be saved.
mrKnickShot wrote:Gallo is an ok player. They could have let carmelo walk and spend that money on an equal or better player than Gallo. Once again, your argument is flawed.As much as you take offense to people not believing in Gallo as a very good player, many feel that he has been at least a bit underwhelming.
You get so feisty when you defend or feel like you need to defend Gallo
It really is kind of adorable.
you keep making that claim yet never provided any players they could have signed... remember they got more than just gallo.... stop talking about flawed arguments here.. look in the mirror... LOL
As much as you take offense to people not believing in Gallo as a very good player, many feel that he has been at least a bit underwhelming.
LOL dude cut out the old, childish antics.. that will not bother me.. I don't care what you think about gallo, I only address silly statements, and would like for people to be upfront when they post... you are not being honest here.... so I call it like I see it.. thats all....
AnubisADL wrote:When Gallo gets traded he will then proceed to bad mouth Denver. Good thing posts like this will be saved.
actually why would I bad mouth denver.. I didn't bad mouth them before he got there..
I don't know what 3/4ths of these 9 players have to do with the trade. All of the players you've mentioned has been added to a team trying to purge 90% of their team - and added with almost no flexibility.
Mozgov (picked up out of nowhere) is apparently still worth a 1st round pick, which is good value.
Toney Douglas (late 1st round pick) has been playing solid, even stolen minutes from your nemesis Lin, like the way he used to when he wasn't our starting PG.
Eddy Curry (Isaiah Thomas much?) had nothing to do with the later management other than being a huge contract needed to be moved.
Roger Mason, Billy Walker, Double E, Ronny Turiaf weren't expected to be anything but bench/role players. All of whom picked up for almost nothing.
Kevin Garnett.. I mean Lamar Odom... oh, wait, Marcus Camby... no I mean Anthony Randolph has always had potential. He's still young and might get it together. The whole world gushed at his physique and potential.
Rautins was a 2nd round pick.
tkf wrote:AnubisADL wrote:When Gallo gets traded he will then proceed to bad mouth Denver. Good thing posts like this will be saved.
actually why would I bad mouth denver.. I didn't bad mouth them before he got there..
Be honest man. I guarantee you would never mention Denver if your boy Gallo was traded to Memphis for Rudy Gay.
I know your a Gallo fan. Just keep it real. If Gallo was on the Wizards you'd be hyping them.
AnubisADL wrote:tkf wrote:AnubisADL wrote:When Gallo gets traded he will then proceed to bad mouth Denver. Good thing posts like this will be saved.
actually why would I bad mouth denver.. I didn't bad mouth them before he got there..
Be honest man. I guarantee you would never mention Denver if your boy Gallo was traded to Memphis for Rudy Gay.
I know your a Gallo fan. Just keep it real. If Gallo was on the Wizards you'd be hyping them.
no, you said bad mouth them.. why would I do that? I have actually praised denver's managment since kiki was GM there.. you have no clue what you are talking about.. at all..
NYKMentality wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Gallo is an ok player. They could have let carmelo walk and spend that money on an equal or better player than Gallo.
Thank you. Exactly.
kiss of death endorsement....
AnubisADL wrote:tkf wrote:AnubisADL wrote:When Gallo gets traded he will then proceed to bad mouth Denver. Good thing posts like this will be saved.
actually why would I bad mouth denver.. I didn't bad mouth them before he got there..
Be honest man. I guarantee you would never mention Denver if your boy Gallo was traded to Memphis for Rudy Gay.
I know your a Gallo fan. Just keep it real. If Gallo was on the Wizards you'd be hyping them.
Not to go off-track, but the Wizards looks really good. They have beaten almost all the winning teams that they have faced in the last month I think. They just keep losing to the bad teams.
It's just funny how TKF talks up Gallo 24/7. It's also funny how TKF talks about Melo's first round exits but then ignores that Gallo A.) Completely failed to lead the Knicks to the postseason during his first two years in New York and B.) Has been eliminated during the first round with Denver twice now. While also crapping the bed and playing awful basketball at the same damn time.
Gallo is THE REASON why his Denver teammates were eliminated from the postseason last year against the Lakers. Games of 5/18 shooting, 3/11 shooting, 4/13 shooting, 5/13 shooting for a postseason FG percentage of only .362. What makes it even worse? During a game 7 with the pressure on? Gallo decides to eliminate his entire team by going 1/9 from the field with only 3 points, 3 boards, 3 assists, and FOUR turnovers. What a nice way to perform with the pressure on...
Could you IMAGINE TKF's reaction if this were Melo's numbers during not only a game 7, but also an entire postseason series?
tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Gallo is an ok player. They could have let carmelo walk and spend that money on an equal or better player than Gallo. Once again, your argument is flawed.As much as you take offense to people not believing in Gallo as a very good player, many feel that he has been at least a bit underwhelming.
You get so feisty when you defend or feel like you need to defend Gallo
It really is kind of adorable.
you keep making that claim yet never provided any players they could have signed... remember they got more than just gallo.... stop talking about flawed arguments here.. look in the mirror... LOL
As much as you take offense to people not believing in Gallo as a very good player, many feel that he has been at least a bit underwhelming.
LOL dude cut out the old, childish antics.. that will not bother me.. I don't care what you think about gallo, I only address silly statements, and would like for people to be upfront when they post... you are not being honest here.... so I call it like I see it.. thats all....
THey could have had enough money to give a poison pill contract to you know who.
