If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.
You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?
Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.
Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good
Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton
gunsnewing - well stated. The whole Amare vs Melo thing is just another in the ongoing series of manufactured drama recited by writers as gospel.
Yes, The Answer Man had his doubts, having witnessed the failed marriage of Spencer Haywood and Bob McAdoo. As time has revealed, and as you state, Carmelo and Amar'e just needed some quality time together.
If Amare is indeed on a pitch count, Mike Woodson has chosen to carefully ration minutes for Stoudemire from the bench. Those who insist this is a doomed strategy have little recollection of the outcry over playing Antonio McDyess too many minutes in the pre season. Woodson is choosing to be cautious. Wise move. Why?
Here are three reasons to be cool:
1. March is a killer month. Amare as a starter would be toast by St Patrick's Day. Guaranteed.
2. There are two more months of important basketball to resolve rotations. No need to rush into anything.
3. The playoffs are indeed, Win or Go Home. The second week of Jazz Fess ("sho you right!") in May is generally right around the end of the first round. We need Amare at peak capacity in May, not needing days to recover.
Yeah, OK. Not sure about if anyone gave any thought to the roster construction but since Amare was here first The thinking must have been:
"LEBRON SHOT US DOWN AND WE GOT AMRE BUT OMG THATS NOT ENOUGH BECAUSE WE NEED CP3 AND MELO TO FULFIL THE WEDDING TOAST!!!!"
"DONNIE, DONNIE, DONNIE, DONNIE WHAT SHOULD WE DO? GET CP3 GET CP3 GET CP3......., YOU HEAR THAT MELO IS AVAILABLE, GET MELO GET MELO GET MELO!........MELO ON THE NETS, MELO ON THE NETS@ OMG NOOO NOOO NOOO!!!!! GET MELO GET MELO, DONNIE, GET MELO.........WHY CAN'T YOU GET ME MY MELO? GET ME MELO!!!!I'LL GO! I'LL GET ME MELO! I WANT MELO! DONNIE DONNIE I WANT MELO!!!!! ASK MYSELF WHAT? IF ITS A GOOD FIT? HE'S A STAR! ON BROADWAY! I WANT MY BIG THREE! IJ ASK MYSELF IF I WANT A STAR! ANSWER IS YES!!!! I LOVE STARS! STARS MAKE MONEY! STAR MAKING MONEY IS ALWAY A GOOD FIT!!!!!
I agree with Earl, no point in running Stat into the ground before the playoffs. Guns is right, that they're playing better as a tandem. Part of it I believe has been their willingness this season to work together when they're both on the floor at the same time. They're looking to set each other up. Last season wasn't the case and it hurt the team.
I also like how staggering their minutes gives each of them the opportunity get into a rhythm.
What Really Happens
Mike Woodson is hedging his bets on the return of either Camby or Wallace. That will save the wear and tear on Tyson Chandler. Everything else is window dressing. In the playoffs you gotta be able to get the ball inside. Period. Check out Amare getting his mojo back.
Every time he hints to the press there may be a lineup change, people start salivating. What does Woodson do? He keeps things on an even keel for his veterans.
Change, unlike what the Trader Joe's among us jump to proclaim, is not always a wise thing with NBA veterans. Vets like stability. Of course, sticking with Jason Kidd as a starter could be a serious mistake.... or it could be the head coach's way of saying, "stay with it, I am in your corner, no matter what."
That maintains order and respect in the locker room. If Kidd feels he cannot provide quality minutes to help the team win, as a veteran, he will admit as much to the head coach. Forget the shooting numbers, it is Kidd's floor management and rebounding which are his assets.
Roles must be embraced by people. Woodson's toughest sell job may have been convincing JR Smith to be a sixth man. Shumpert is still gaining his sea legs. Amare is one false step away from being in a nice suit on crutches. It ain't perfect. It never is in Knicksland.
Be cool people.
gunsnewing wrote:If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?
Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.
Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good
Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton
Dolan wanted Melo and they cleared the cupboards to get him so D'Antoni and Woodson had to shoehorn them both in the lineup. you can't justify having a 60 million dollar player come off the bench so it was kind of "convenient" that STAT got injured. whether or not they can play together, STAT's defense is always going to be a liability—which is going to hurt the knicks in the playoffs.
misterearl wrote:What Really HappensMike Woodson is hedging his bets on the return of either Camby or Wallace. That will save the wear and tear on Tyson Chandler. Everything else is window dressing. In the playoffs you gotta be able to get the ball inside. Period. Check out Amare getting his mojo back.
Every time he hints to the press there may be a lineup change, people start salivating. What does Woodson do? He keeps things on an even keel for his veterans.
Change, unlike what the Trader Joe's among us jump to proclaim, is not always a wise thing with NBA veterans. Vets like stability. Of course, sticking with Jason Kidd as a starter could be a serious mistake.... or it could be the head coach's way of saying, "stay with it, I am in your corner, no matter what."
That maintains order and respect in the locker room. If Kidd feels he cannot provide quality minutes to help the team win, as a veteran, he will admit as much to the head coach. Forget the shooting numbers, it is Kidd's floor management and rebounding which are his assets.
Roles must be embraced by people. Woodson's toughest sell job may have been convincing JR Smith to be a sixth man. Shumpert is still gaining his sea legs. Amare is one false step away from being in a nice suit on crutches. It ain't perfect. It never is in Knicksland.
Be cool people.
I like that........
Be cool!
YOu don't pay a guy 100mil to come off the bench but when he keeps breaking down you preserve and protect the investment.
Even if it means not winning as much you have to have him a peak for the playoffs.
Same for Melo and JR., fatigue effects the body and the decision making process.
sheesh
SlimChin - stop getting hung up on what someone else makes. Who died and made you Marc Berman?
Mike Woodson's job is to devise a way to get the most out of his players. Not measure their paychecks.
If Stat's defense is deficient, big deal. That is why you (hopefully) have a Marcus Camby for his expert weakside assistance.
It ain't your money.
gunsnewing wrote:Start:
Amare(under 30mins)
+10000000000000000000000
Shump shouldn't be starting, but what else do we have? We need someone on the perimeter besides Melo. Felton is not that someone. Shump certainly is not. Stat is mr. mid range, with the occassional DreamShake to the rack. Tyson is tyson. Dunks, putbacks and slap-outs.
Oh for someone like Spree in his prime!
I agree and I think this is a no-brainer. You still have a problem of who orchestrates this mess. Felton is drowning. Kidd is shot. The big question mark here is Pablo. He looks very good sometimes and sometimes he looks like a D2 player playing against a top D1 program. I think Pablo has to be 2nd string PG now and should get a lot of minutes when Amare/Melo lineup is on the court. He needs time now with Amare and Melo to get him ready for the playoffs.
SlimChin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?
Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.
Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good
Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton
Dolan wanted Melo and they cleared the cupboards to get him so D'Antoni and Woodson had to shoehorn them both in the lineup. you can't justify having a 60 million dollar player come off the bench so it was kind of "convenient" that STAT got injured. whether or not they can play together, STAT's defense is always going to be a liability—which is going to hurt the knicks in the playoffs.
i KNOW people really want them to work, but sometimes things just don't mix... amare and carmelo are both poor defenders and passers... can't have two guys who touch the ball that much, who play that many minutes be that poor in both areas.... plain and simple...
tkf wrote:SlimChin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?
Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.
Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good
Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton
Dolan wanted Melo and they cleared the cupboards to get him so D'Antoni and Woodson had to shoehorn them both in the lineup. you can't justify having a 60 million dollar player come off the bench so it was kind of "convenient" that STAT got injured. whether or not they can play together, STAT's defense is always going to be a liability—which is going to hurt the knicks in the playoffs.
i KNOW people really want them to work, but sometimes things just don't mix... amare and carmelo are both poor defenders and passers... can't have two guys who touch the ball that much, who play that many minutes be that poor in both areas.... plain and simple...
That's why you need a very good PG that can create and distribute. Without that piece then this duo can't work. Just too many warts.
misterearl wrote:sheeshSlimChin - stop getting hung up on what someone else makes. Who died and made you Marc Berman?
Mike Woodson's job is to devise a way to get the most out of his players. Not measure their paychecks.
If Stat's defense is deficient, big deal. That is why you (hopefully) have a Marcus Camby for his expert weakside assistance.
It ain't your money.
not getting hung up on salaries. just saying that most teams(in any sport) won't bench a player whose getting paid that much. remember before melo, stat was the franchise player for the knicks. Marcus Camby?? who knows when he's going to play?
Did You Say Benched?
SlimChin - Amar'e is not "benched". When one is "benched" one is restricted to garbage time. Maybe. Stoudemire is being deployed with forethought, consideration of his medical history and the wisdom of a head coach who has played at the NBA level.
Marcus Camby will return when he is ready.
Are you also moaning about the length of Derrick Rose's recovery?
To me it doens't matter who starts....it more important to FINISH the game. The bench is much stronger with Amare coming off of it. Start Amare and you now have to rely solely on JR.
if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.
the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
Um...how about that STAT was damaged goods and we maxed him out when no one else was willing to? The problem we have with the team right now is Kidd. He's simpky not playing the way he was at the start of the year. STAT and Melo are inferior defenders but to me they seem to be playing just fine together this year.
dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
exactly, and for fans to complain about injuries with this team is like buying a 10 year old car with 350k miles on it and complaining about repair problems.. really? like you didn't expect a car with almost a half a million miles to have some issues?
I mean if anyone in here is over 35 years old you understand how hard it is to stay in peak shape.. I work out every day and when I play ball with my son, I need two days recovery.. forget these guys playing at the pro level and I don't care how good of an athlete they were, time is a mother... when you are 39, 40 and you are being counted on to play heavy minutes or a big part in a rotation, that team is taking a huge risk... the knicks have 3 guys nearing that age that they counted on, and now just signed kenyon who has 50 year old knees..... I just don't get what this team has done the past few years..
CashMoney wrote:dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
Um...how about that STAT was damaged goods and we maxed him out when no one else was willing to? The problem we have with the team right now is Kidd. He's simpky not playing the way he was at the start of the year. STAT and Melo are inferior defenders but to me they seem to be playing just fine together this year.
kidd is not the problem..we should not have played him that many minutes. Kidd is soon to be 40 years old.. what are we expecting from him? the guy defends bigger players most of the time. he has to do most of the thinking for those knuckleheads on the floor when he is out there.. this is not a young jason kidd anymore.. the guy is gassed.. and that is understandable..
tkf wrote:CashMoney wrote:dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
Um...how about that STAT was damaged goods and we maxed him out when no one else was willing to? The problem we have with the team right now is Kidd. He's simpky not playing the way he was at the start of the year. STAT and Melo are inferior defenders but to me they seem to be playing just fine together this year.
kidd is not the problem..we should not have played him that many minutes. Kidd is soon to be 40 years old.. what are we expecting from him? the guy defends bigger players most of the time. he has to do most of the thinking for those knuckleheads on the floor when he is out there.. this is not a young jason kidd anymore.. the guy is gassed.. and that is understandable..
I'm not bagging on Kidd and it isn't his fault that he's came back down to earth. However, him not playing the way he did earlier has resulted in the product we're watching today. 100% understandable....Pablo needs more run.
CashMoney wrote:tkf wrote:CashMoney wrote:dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?
knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?
Um...how about that STAT was damaged goods and we maxed him out when no one else was willing to? The problem we have with the team right now is Kidd. He's simpky not playing the way he was at the start of the year. STAT and Melo are inferior defenders but to me they seem to be playing just fine together this year.
kidd is not the problem..we should not have played him that many minutes. Kidd is soon to be 40 years old.. what are we expecting from him? the guy defends bigger players most of the time. he has to do most of the thinking for those knuckleheads on the floor when he is out there.. this is not a young jason kidd anymore.. the guy is gassed.. and that is understandable..
I'm not bagging on Kidd and it isn't his fault that he's came back down to earth. However, him not playing the way he did earlier has resulted in the product we're watching today. 100% understandable....Pablo needs more run.
THIS product we see now was inevitable... kidd, sheed, and other performances just slowed the train down.. masked the problem a bit.... it was always there.. never went away.. we just could not expect kidd to play that way for an extended period of time.. what he gave the knicks probably helped save this team from being further down the standings at this point... we should be grateful.. and playing pablo more doesn't solve the problem...
