Knicks · Problems with Knicks Roster (going back in time) (page 2)
MS wrote:The team doesn't really have a promising future that's why most are unhappy.Let's take into consideration. The owner raised ticket prices 6% this season. The team has accomplished shit. They haven't won a playoff series, hell they haven't won two games. Chandler is a nice player, but his impact is far overblown. When you have an injury disaster like Amare you don't use you're amnesty on Billups. Dolan brings up the luxury tax for not signing Lin, count the payoffs to Billups, Anucha, Curry, James, Larry Brown, Chaney, Dantoni. It's just embarrasing.
Denver doesn't miss Melo. They added Faried and a couple of solid roll players they shouldn't be better than the Knicks if Melo is really a superstar.
If Melo wanted to get paid so badly they should have let him go to the Nets with Rip Hamilton and a couple of other broken down players. That's all you need to know about the guy, if he took that deal in order to get his money.
Gallo, may not be an all world talent, but right now he is the piece this team needs, likewise with Wilson. You could have paid the luxury tax and signed them all getting melo as a free agent.
At the end of the day, the Knicks have sucked for years. Will they get out of the first round no one knows. But, what we do know is that if the Knicks had just kept all their talent Lee, Zach, Gallo, Chandler, Jamal, whatever picks they had that team would have likely been better than the current team now. Lee is better than Chandler/Amare and we could have locked him up cheap, but Walsh waited and balked at 8MM. So fans would love to be proved wrong, but more often than not we are always proved right.
You said it. Knicks have sucked for years, with all of those players you mentioned, and since getting Melo we haven't sucked, we have been a playoff team and continue to be.
“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
-Albert Eisnstein
First one must define the "problems"
Is it we are better and a playoff team this year?
Or a go nowhere starphuch entertainment company?
NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.
The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
NYKBocker wrote:knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
Really back to Lin? And to think none of these threads today would exist today had we beat Golden State.
NYKBocker wrote:knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
signing Lin would have made no difference and could have potentially been a worse case situation.
Woodsons lack of offensive coaching, and is in ability to consistanly put players in a position to succeed leaves me to believe that Lins talents would be waisted under woodson.
coming down the court looking for melo or JR 80% of the time is not Lins game.
Lin and Melo on the court, was worse then Melo and amare
Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:The team doesn't really have a promising future that's why most are unhappy.Let's take into consideration. The owner raised ticket prices 6% this season. The team has accomplished shit. They haven't won a playoff series, hell they haven't won two games. Chandler is a nice player, but his impact is far overblown. When you have an injury disaster like Amare you don't use you're amnesty on Billups. Dolan brings up the luxury tax for not signing Lin, count the payoffs to Billups, Anucha, Curry, James, Larry Brown, Chaney, Dantoni. It's just embarrasing.
Denver doesn't miss Melo. They added Faried and a couple of solid roll players they shouldn't be better than the Knicks if Melo is really a superstar.
If Melo wanted to get paid so badly they should have let him go to the Nets with Rip Hamilton and a couple of other broken down players. That's all you need to know about the guy, if he took that deal in order to get his money.
Gallo, may not be an all world talent, but right now he is the piece this team needs, likewise with Wilson. You could have paid the luxury tax and signed them all getting melo as a free agent.
At the end of the day, the Knicks have sucked for years. Will they get out of the first round no one knows. But, what we do know is that if the Knicks had just kept all their talent Lee, Zach, Gallo, Chandler, Jamal, whatever picks they had that team would have likely been better than the current team now. Lee is better than Chandler/Amare and we could have locked him up cheap, but Walsh waited and balked at 8MM. So fans would love to be proved wrong, but more often than not we are always proved right.
You said it. Knicks have sucked for years, with all of those players you mentioned, and since getting Melo we haven't sucked, we have been a playoff team and continue to be.
+1 billion
Lower expectations equal a happier UK community. I don't recall folks yelling "ECF or DIE!" with all those great players we lost. But maybe they are yelling that thinking about all those now invisible draft picks we gave away. Especially since the Knicks have had such a great track record in the first round, but let's not think about that. Think about who YOU would have drafted, now that it's 3-4 years later!
jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:The team doesn't really have a promising future that's why most are unhappy.Let's take into consideration. The owner raised ticket prices 6% this season. The team has accomplished shit. They haven't won a playoff series, hell they haven't won two games. Chandler is a nice player, but his impact is far overblown. When you have an injury disaster like Amare you don't use you're amnesty on Billups. Dolan brings up the luxury tax for not signing Lin, count the payoffs to Billups, Anucha, Curry, James, Larry Brown, Chaney, Dantoni. It's just embarrasing.
Denver doesn't miss Melo. They added Faried and a couple of solid roll players they shouldn't be better than the Knicks if Melo is really a superstar.
If Melo wanted to get paid so badly they should have let him go to the Nets with Rip Hamilton and a couple of other broken down players. That's all you need to know about the guy, if he took that deal in order to get his money.
Gallo, may not be an all world talent, but right now he is the piece this team needs, likewise with Wilson. You could have paid the luxury tax and signed them all getting melo as a free agent.
At the end of the day, the Knicks have sucked for years. Will they get out of the first round no one knows. But, what we do know is that if the Knicks had just kept all their talent Lee, Zach, Gallo, Chandler, Jamal, whatever picks they had that team would have likely been better than the current team now. Lee is better than Chandler/Amare and we could have locked him up cheap, but Walsh waited and balked at 8MM. So fans would love to be proved wrong, but more often than not we are always proved right.
You said it. Knicks have sucked for years, with all of those players you mentioned, and since getting Melo we haven't sucked, we have been a playoff team and continue to be.
+1 billion
Lower expectations equal a happier UK community. I don't recall folks yelling "ECF or DIE!" with all those great players we lost. But maybe they are yelling that thinking about all those now invisible draft picks we gave away. Especially since the Knicks have had such a great track record in the first round, but let's not think about that. Think about who YOU would have drafted, now that it's 3-4 years later!
Yeah people would be happier making the first round with Gallo than the 2nd round with Melo, you are right.
knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
signing Lin would have made no difference and could have potentially been a worse case situation.Woodsons lack of offensive coaching, and is in ability to consistanly put players in a position to succeed leaves me to believe that Lins talents would be waisted under woodson.
coming down the court looking for melo or JR 80% of the time is not Lins game.
Lin and Melo on the court, was worse then Melo and amare
The thing is, if it didn't work out, we still could have traded Lin to get better parts that suited Melo. Right now, we can't do anything but to look at rejects or past their prime players.
Woodson actually played Lin and Melo last year with some success. Melo had a lot of easy buckets when he played with Lin.
I think Lin and Melo could have worked. Imagine running the pick-and-pop like what Harden and Lin are doing now. I think Melo would be better at it and Lin would have gotten him a lot of mismatches at his sweet spot which is the top of the key.
Knixkik wrote:jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:The team doesn't really have a promising future that's why most are unhappy.Let's take into consideration. The owner raised ticket prices 6% this season. The team has accomplished shit. They haven't won a playoff series, hell they haven't won two games. Chandler is a nice player, but his impact is far overblown. When you have an injury disaster like Amare you don't use you're amnesty on Billups. Dolan brings up the luxury tax for not signing Lin, count the payoffs to Billups, Anucha, Curry, James, Larry Brown, Chaney, Dantoni. It's just embarrasing.
Denver doesn't miss Melo. They added Faried and a couple of solid roll players they shouldn't be better than the Knicks if Melo is really a superstar.
If Melo wanted to get paid so badly they should have let him go to the Nets with Rip Hamilton and a couple of other broken down players. That's all you need to know about the guy, if he took that deal in order to get his money.
Gallo, may not be an all world talent, but right now he is the piece this team needs, likewise with Wilson. You could have paid the luxury tax and signed them all getting melo as a free agent.
At the end of the day, the Knicks have sucked for years. Will they get out of the first round no one knows. But, what we do know is that if the Knicks had just kept all their talent Lee, Zach, Gallo, Chandler, Jamal, whatever picks they had that team would have likely been better than the current team now. Lee is better than Chandler/Amare and we could have locked him up cheap, but Walsh waited and balked at 8MM. So fans would love to be proved wrong, but more often than not we are always proved right.
You said it. Knicks have sucked for years, with all of those players you mentioned, and since getting Melo we haven't sucked, we have been a playoff team and continue to be.
+1 billion
Lower expectations equal a happier UK community. I don't recall folks yelling "ECF or DIE!" with all those great players we lost. But maybe they are yelling that thinking about all those now invisible draft picks we gave away. Especially since the Knicks have had such a great track record in the first round, but let's not think about that. Think about who YOU would have drafted, now that it's 3-4 years later!
Yeah people would be happier making the first round with Gallo than the 2nd round with Melo, you are right.
See "Opportunity cost".........Its not gallo vs. melo.
Knixkik wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:the problems with this roster are:1. signing AMARE = i agree that the knicks had to upgrade from lee to a star. I also understand that they HAD to come away with a star since they lost out on Lebron. But they overpaid and outbid themselves for a PF with bad knees. $100 million destroyed them
2. trading for Melo = i still agree that they needed to bring in melo. I thought he was an ELITE star but hes simply a one way SUPERSTAR (a glorified glenn robinson). we gave up gallo, wilson, felton and a few other scrubs that I 4got. Looking back, if knicks management wouldve realized that Melo is good but not ELITE, maybe you give up gallo or wilson but not both
3. they amnestied billups - now while they used this money to get tyson (still a good pickup), if you KNOW you overpaid for a powerfwd with glass knees, then you have to KEEP that amnesty clause for such a player. (if we had the amnesty now, knicks would be allowed to cut amare and use his $20mil, without a cap penalty)
4. investing in OLD players to provide depth = i understand that the knicks are over the salary cap and CANT afford much. (they can only afford to invested in minimum wage $1mil players who are mostly OLD players). but there were players OUT there and even I KNEW THIS. Blatche, CJ Watson, M. Webster and others under the age of 28 who are ALL playing for the minimum wage right now. Instead we invested in Kurt, White, Copeland, Rasheed. and then we use the real money we have to invest in camby ($3mil) and kidd ($3mil)
In the NBA, it has been proven that you can win with the BIG 3 concept or the system (bulls or spurs) concept. We chose the BIG 3 route - FINE, but if youre GOING to do that then you need to invest wisely - in the actual big 3 AND its role players
just my $0.02 ...LOL
We made out well in the Melo trade. The problem was our draft decisions. We passed up Holiday, Jennings, Lawson in 2009. That draft killed us. Could have easily walked away with another star. Comparing Melo to Glenn Robinson is just bad. What's next, Antoine Walker?
Only reason people can be happy with the Melo trade is if we got him for nothing, i swear.
Melo for nothing would have been great, but getting fleeced like that was not very good business. It was little Jimmy being little Jimmy and straight shot this team up the arse.
Trading a few role players due for big paydays isn't getting fleeced. We gave away no future stars, just fan favorites which clouds judgment.
It wouldn't be AS bad if all we gave away was role players. We gave away draft pics, money, and gutted a whole up and coming squad. And quite frankly, if your name isn't Kobe or LeBron, you ain't worth all that. We should've kept what we had and build from there. Phuck that trade!!!
ShellTopAdidas wrote:Knixkik wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:the problems with this roster are:1. signing AMARE = i agree that the knicks had to upgrade from lee to a star. I also understand that they HAD to come away with a star since they lost out on Lebron. But they overpaid and outbid themselves for a PF with bad knees. $100 million destroyed them
2. trading for Melo = i still agree that they needed to bring in melo. I thought he was an ELITE star but hes simply a one way SUPERSTAR (a glorified glenn robinson). we gave up gallo, wilson, felton and a few other scrubs that I 4got. Looking back, if knicks management wouldve realized that Melo is good but not ELITE, maybe you give up gallo or wilson but not both
3. they amnestied billups - now while they used this money to get tyson (still a good pickup), if you KNOW you overpaid for a powerfwd with glass knees, then you have to KEEP that amnesty clause for such a player. (if we had the amnesty now, knicks would be allowed to cut amare and use his $20mil, without a cap penalty)
4. investing in OLD players to provide depth = i understand that the knicks are over the salary cap and CANT afford much. (they can only afford to invested in minimum wage $1mil players who are mostly OLD players). but there were players OUT there and even I KNEW THIS. Blatche, CJ Watson, M. Webster and others under the age of 28 who are ALL playing for the minimum wage right now. Instead we invested in Kurt, White, Copeland, Rasheed. and then we use the real money we have to invest in camby ($3mil) and kidd ($3mil)
In the NBA, it has been proven that you can win with the BIG 3 concept or the system (bulls or spurs) concept. We chose the BIG 3 route - FINE, but if youre GOING to do that then you need to invest wisely - in the actual big 3 AND its role players
just my $0.02 ...LOL
We made out well in the Melo trade. The problem was our draft decisions. We passed up Holiday, Jennings, Lawson in 2009. That draft killed us. Could have easily walked away with another star. Comparing Melo to Glenn Robinson is just bad. What's next, Antoine Walker?
Only reason people can be happy with the Melo trade is if we got him for nothing, i swear.
Melo for nothing would have been great, but getting fleeced like that was not very good business. It was little Jimmy being little Jimmy and straight shot this team up the arse.
Trading a few role players due for big paydays isn't getting fleeced. We gave away no future stars, just fan favorites which clouds judgment.
It wouldn't be AS bad if all we gave away was role players. We gave away draft pics, money, and gutted a whole up and coming squad. And quite frankly, if your name isn't Kobe or LeBron, you ain't worth all that. We should've kept what we had and build from there. Phuck that trade!!!
Not just that. Those role players have good value. I mean, GMs were offering a 1st rounder for Moz. Wilson would have been a very good role player with Melo. They were assets that did not have to be sent away.
NYKBocker wrote:ShellTopAdidas wrote:Knixkik wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:the problems with this roster are:1. signing AMARE = i agree that the knicks had to upgrade from lee to a star. I also understand that they HAD to come away with a star since they lost out on Lebron. But they overpaid and outbid themselves for a PF with bad knees. $100 million destroyed them
2. trading for Melo = i still agree that they needed to bring in melo. I thought he was an ELITE star but hes simply a one way SUPERSTAR (a glorified glenn robinson). we gave up gallo, wilson, felton and a few other scrubs that I 4got. Looking back, if knicks management wouldve realized that Melo is good but not ELITE, maybe you give up gallo or wilson but not both
3. they amnestied billups - now while they used this money to get tyson (still a good pickup), if you KNOW you overpaid for a powerfwd with glass knees, then you have to KEEP that amnesty clause for such a player. (if we had the amnesty now, knicks would be allowed to cut amare and use his $20mil, without a cap penalty)
4. investing in OLD players to provide depth = i understand that the knicks are over the salary cap and CANT afford much. (they can only afford to invested in minimum wage $1mil players who are mostly OLD players). but there were players OUT there and even I KNEW THIS. Blatche, CJ Watson, M. Webster and others under the age of 28 who are ALL playing for the minimum wage right now. Instead we invested in Kurt, White, Copeland, Rasheed. and then we use the real money we have to invest in camby ($3mil) and kidd ($3mil)
In the NBA, it has been proven that you can win with the BIG 3 concept or the system (bulls or spurs) concept. We chose the BIG 3 route - FINE, but if youre GOING to do that then you need to invest wisely - in the actual big 3 AND its role players
just my $0.02 ...LOL
We made out well in the Melo trade. The problem was our draft decisions. We passed up Holiday, Jennings, Lawson in 2009. That draft killed us. Could have easily walked away with another star. Comparing Melo to Glenn Robinson is just bad. What's next, Antoine Walker?
Only reason people can be happy with the Melo trade is if we got him for nothing, i swear.
Melo for nothing would have been great, but getting fleeced like that was not very good business. It was little Jimmy being little Jimmy and straight shot this team up the arse.
Trading a few role players due for big paydays isn't getting fleeced. We gave away no future stars, just fan favorites which clouds judgment.
It wouldn't be AS bad if all we gave away was role players. We gave away draft pics, money, and gutted a whole up and coming squad. And quite frankly, if your name isn't Kobe or LeBron, you ain't worth all that. We should've kept what we had and build from there. Phuck that trade!!!
Not just that. Those role players have good value. I mean, GMs were offering a 1st rounder for Moz. Wilson would have been a very good role player with Melo. They were assets that did not have to be sent away.
Exactly!!!! If Melo had just waited and sign here and build on what we were doing we would of had a very good team with flexibility. Enough to get CP3 or whoever we wanted. Wasn't like he was going to go broke under the new CBA. But he wanted his money and be King ding a ling, now we looking like some wet noodles with no light at the end of the tunnel. Can't believe this BS!
Knixkik wrote:Has Watson had a recent upswing? The guy looked terrible whenever I checked in on him earlier in the year. Not sure about Blatche. Did he target NJ as a destination? Lin has been discussed to death. The Knicks already have three huge salary commitments for year three of the new cba and could not keep Lin.NYKBocker wrote:knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
Really back to Lin? And to think none of these threads today would exist today had we beat Golden State.
I do think you can win with melo I just think you have to surround him with certain talent (as BRIGGS mentioned in another post). i was optimistic with this season because on paper we looked good. I was just worried about the age and therefore injuries (this has come to fruition). This yr i predicted 47 wins and 2nd rd exit and i hope next yr we can go further. We just need to add younger role players(yes i think players like watson and blatche wouldve been an upgrade over prigoni and kurt)
NYKBocker wrote:They did have to be sent away if the Knicks were getting Melo. The Nuggets weren't waiting for Melo to leave and sign with the Knicks after LBJ and Bosh pulled their shennanigans. Melo wasn't waiting to see what things were like after the owners locked the players out and reigned in free agency. Melo would be a net if he wasn't a Knick. Also, the Knicks traded one first round pick in the Melo trade. The organization has done a lot of stupid things with first round picks. Trading one for Melo wasn't one of them in my opinion.ShellTopAdidas wrote:Knixkik wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:the problems with this roster are:1. signing AMARE = i agree that the knicks had to upgrade from lee to a star. I also understand that they HAD to come away with a star since they lost out on Lebron. But they overpaid and outbid themselves for a PF with bad knees. $100 million destroyed them
2. trading for Melo = i still agree that they needed to bring in melo. I thought he was an ELITE star but hes simply a one way SUPERSTAR (a glorified glenn robinson). we gave up gallo, wilson, felton and a few other scrubs that I 4got. Looking back, if knicks management wouldve realized that Melo is good but not ELITE, maybe you give up gallo or wilson but not both
3. they amnestied billups - now while they used this money to get tyson (still a good pickup), if you KNOW you overpaid for a powerfwd with glass knees, then you have to KEEP that amnesty clause for such a player. (if we had the amnesty now, knicks would be allowed to cut amare and use his $20mil, without a cap penalty)
4. investing in OLD players to provide depth = i understand that the knicks are over the salary cap and CANT afford much. (they can only afford to invested in minimum wage $1mil players who are mostly OLD players). but there were players OUT there and even I KNEW THIS. Blatche, CJ Watson, M. Webster and others under the age of 28 who are ALL playing for the minimum wage right now. Instead we invested in Kurt, White, Copeland, Rasheed. and then we use the real money we have to invest in camby ($3mil) and kidd ($3mil)
In the NBA, it has been proven that you can win with the BIG 3 concept or the system (bulls or spurs) concept. We chose the BIG 3 route - FINE, but if youre GOING to do that then you need to invest wisely - in the actual big 3 AND its role players
just my $0.02 ...LOL
We made out well in the Melo trade. The problem was our draft decisions. We passed up Holiday, Jennings, Lawson in 2009. That draft killed us. Could have easily walked away with another star. Comparing Melo to Glenn Robinson is just bad. What's next, Antoine Walker?
Only reason people can be happy with the Melo trade is if we got him for nothing, i swear.
Melo for nothing would have been great, but getting fleeced like that was not very good business. It was little Jimmy being little Jimmy and straight shot this team up the arse.
Trading a few role players due for big paydays isn't getting fleeced. We gave away no future stars, just fan favorites which clouds judgment.
It wouldn't be AS bad if all we gave away was role players. We gave away draft pics, money, and gutted a whole up and coming squad. And quite frankly, if your name isn't Kobe or LeBron, you ain't worth all that. We should've kept what we had and build from there. Phuck that trade!!!
Not just that. Those role players have good value. I mean, GMs were offering a 1st rounder for Moz. Wilson would have been a very good role player with Melo. They were assets that did not have to be sent away.
CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:Has Watson had a recent upswing? The guy looked terrible whenever I checked in on him earlier in the year. Not sure about Blatche. Did he target NJ as a destination? Lin has been discussed to death. The Knicks already have three huge salary commitments for year three of the new cba and could not keep Lin.NYKBocker wrote:knicks1248 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:smackeddog wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Imagine if we signed Lin, Blatche and CJ Watson. Sign KMart too.PG - Lin/Watson
SG - Shump/JR Smith
SF - Melo/Novak
PF - Amare/KMart
C - Tyson/BlatcheThat team would make noise in the playoffs.
Blatche and CJ Watson are the difference between us and a championship team now?!
Whats the point in hindsight.
And you realise last night was just a bad game, right? It happens- doesn't cancel out all of our wins.
Gotta be realistic with hindsight. Blatche is a very good player, better than what we have now with Camby, Sheed or KT. CJ would be a very good backup PG. You really think this is just about last night?
your talking about players on a team beneath us, CJ has been a shade above horrible prior to a few recent break out games since PJ took over. Blatche who is coming from a consistanly losing
enviroment, would still be a ? mark on most nights.The injuries that plagued the knicks can happen to any player we pick up even if the were relatively healthy there whole careers..weather it's BAD LUCK, our medical staff, or our coaches running players into the ground, it's almost a given that we seem to endure injuries to key players regardless to who they are.
It's the situation we are in. We can only sign min contrac type players. Blatche and Watson are better options than what we have righ now. Ownership and management put us in this position. Either way, should have signed Lin then avoided signing old players.
Really back to Lin? And to think none of these threads today would exist today had we beat Golden State.
If that was the case, why were the Knicks willing to give 30 million to Steve Nash in a sign and trade? Please explain it to me.
Knixkik wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:the problems with this roster are:1. signing AMARE = i agree that the knicks had to upgrade from lee to a star. I also understand that they HAD to come away with a star since they lost out on Lebron. But they overpaid and outbid themselves for a PF with bad knees. $100 million destroyed them
2. trading for Melo = i still agree that they needed to bring in melo. I thought he was an ELITE star but hes simply a one way SUPERSTAR (a glorified glenn robinson). we gave up gallo, wilson, felton and a few other scrubs that I 4got. Looking back, if knicks management wouldve realized that Melo is good but not ELITE, maybe you give up gallo or wilson but not both
3. they amnestied billups - now while they used this money to get tyson (still a good pickup), if you KNOW you overpaid for a powerfwd with glass knees, then you have to KEEP that amnesty clause for such a player. (if we had the amnesty now, knicks would be allowed to cut amare and use his $20mil, without a cap penalty)
4. investing in OLD players to provide depth = i understand that the knicks are over the salary cap and CANT afford much. (they can only afford to invested in minimum wage $1mil players who are mostly OLD players). but there were players OUT there and even I KNEW THIS. Blatche, CJ Watson, M. Webster and others under the age of 28 who are ALL playing for the minimum wage right now. Instead we invested in Kurt, White, Copeland, Rasheed. and then we use the real money we have to invest in camby ($3mil) and kidd ($3mil)
In the NBA, it has been proven that you can win with the BIG 3 concept or the system (bulls or spurs) concept. We chose the BIG 3 route - FINE, but if youre GOING to do that then you need to invest wisely - in the actual big 3 AND its role players
just my $0.02 ...LOL
We made out well in the Melo trade. The problem was our draft decisions. We passed up Holiday, Jennings, Lawson in 2009. That draft killed us. Could have easily walked away with another star. Comparing Melo to Glenn Robinson is just bad. What's next, Antoine Walker?
Only reason people can be happy with the Melo trade is if we got him for nothing, i swear.
Melo for nothing would have been great, but getting fleeced like that was not very good business. It was little Jimmy being little Jimmy and straight shot this team up the arse.
Trading a few role players due for big paydays isn't getting fleeced. We gave away no future stars, just fan favorites which clouds judgment.
melo is a fan favorite and presumably a favorite of yours. you sure your judgment isn't clouded?
Over the wishes of front office types who prefer the big name, Donnie Walsh hires Mark Jackson
After an injury to Chris Duhon, an unknown guard named Jeremy Lin is auditioned, as a pure bit of serendipity on the part of Head Coach Mark Jackson
Matt Barnes/ Trevor Ariza never left
Gallo stays, he plays the three
David Lee, over the protests of fans who want a big name, is signed to a max deal
Tyson Chandler, seeing the possibilities, is convinced by Mark Jackson to visit NYC over dinner
Wilson Chandler grows into the most dynamic sixth man in the history of the NBA
Zach Randolph is signed to the other max deal. Fans complain about his salary. He goes to the all star game three years in a row.