Knicks · Melo = Scoring champ (page 9)

some of these advanced stats don't hold a lot of interest for me because the ambition of the formula-deviser usually outstrips his actual acuity and intelligence.

i am especially suspicious of formulae that have more than 3 or perhaps 4 variables. you have to be able to see the game in order to then derive formualae that back up what you see. "intuition" or an "eye for the game" trumps stats. you don't have to be einstein but then again there is only so much the mind can process while viewing a game. that's why studying film is so helpful for players. it helps them process strengths and weaknesses.

formulae are meant to represent what the viewer sees and detects as a pattern, presumably as a pattern for success. the reason some statisticians are popular is because some they have detected what they believe is a pattern for success and shared it. some of them have landed salaries with nba teams based on this assumption.

not everybody, it seems, is wired to view the game that way.

Hersports85 wrote:No ones all geeked up over a scoring title... but what I said stands. This year team has accomplished a number of things that has taken us over 20 years to achieve and some of you guys still complaining because oh ... it's not a championship. So question do you guys give credit to your son/daughters for making the honor roll or getting good grades despite not being valedictorian?

It's okay to give props and congratulate people on things that they accomplish, and that's why I say this are some real hating comments.

And honestly, No matter how good we do in the post season, some of you will still have an issue... but whatever. AGAIN Congrats to The Knicks and our "FANS" on a good regular season. Now let's get ready to make a playoff run.

THANK YOU !

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Dagger wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Dagger wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Division title?

Congrats Melo.

Boston doesn't hang Division Ttiles...Clippers just won a Division Title.... Blake Griffin said it's not getting hung we have our eyes on bigger goals....

CHIP OR BUST at the time of trade I said 3 PEAT OR BUST

Funny that you said that considering you don't seem to think melo is "complete" enough to win one single championship.......and he's certainly playing better now than he did in Denver the games before the trade.

Uhhhhhhh that's because he was in derail mode in Denver. We have hope that day never comes upon this franchise. For now he's playing well but he did the same last yr, so what. And he's put together scoring sprees in Denver hence before he became a Knick some in NBA circles referred to him as the BEST PURE SCORER....

Yes, but you're missing my point. He's better now than he was in Denver, yet after he left Denver you expected 3 championships out of him? So now that he's improved he's not good enough to even win one of those championships? The logic is not there. Or maybe your dislike for him has bubbled and boiled over time in a sort of somber stew of disgust, vitriol, and resentment? Has Melo jaded you?

No Melo is the same player he was in Denver and you could say 2006-2009 he was arguably better. The difference between Denver Melo and Knick Melo, you see him play everyday unlike when he was in Denver, because he plays for us.

My Bad on the Bosh blurb, still everything I stated remains. The series should have been pushed further.

Melo is not the same player. He's posting career highs in player efficiency.

Not even sure why Miami series is still being brought up, I can't imagine the team even winning a game with all the injuries they suffered, while playing a fully healthy Heat team with no core players missing.

His field goal % and true shooting % were actually better in 2007-8, and his assist:turnover ratio (passing efficiency) was slightly better then too.

Yea, but his win shares/48 this year(.184) is the highest in his career!

No argument there. Some of the other advanced stats don't put nearly as favorable a light on his season, though.

watch the games. Melo has been the leader all the doubters have claimed he isnt. He's done it where it counts and thats on the court. Knicks are #2 seed, he won the scoring title and Knicks finished as the hottest team in the league. Now is not the time to be using advanced stats to paint this as anything besides what it is.

Ive said since this guy has been a Knick that he needs to win this fan over because Ive never been a believer that his game is one that you can build a contender around. Well lets be honest. The Knicks are a contender right now. This is Melo's time. He's in the zone. Lets hope for Knick fans this is what we have and it continues through June.

fishmike wrote:watch the games. Melo has been the leader all the doubters have claimed he isnt. He's done it where it counts and thats on the court. Knicks are #2 seed, he won the scoring title and Knicks finished as the hottest team in the league. Now is not the time to be using advanced stats to paint this as anything besides what it is.

Ive said since this guy has been a Knick that he needs to win this fan over because Ive never been a believer that his game is one that you can build a contender around. Well lets be honest. The Knicks are a contender right now. This is Melo's time. He's in the zone. Lets hope for Knick fans this is what we have and it continues through June.

Thanks for being an objective fan fishmike!

Alot of so called Knicks fans will try to point out any deficiencies they can, but the true ones will call it like it is.

Well said.

Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

For exactly that statement. Stop being a GM, start being a fan.

Watch the games not the numbers.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

For exactly that statement. Stop being a GM, start being a fan.

Watch the games not the numbers.

Stop being a bossy critic of your fellow Knick fans - start being a real fan, Chuck.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

For exactly that statement. Stop being a GM, start being a fan.

Watch the games not the numbers.

Stop being a bossy critic of your fellow Knick fans - start being a real fan, Chuck.

But I'm a BAUS!!!

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

For exactly that statement. Stop being a GM, start being a fan.

Watch the games not the numbers.

Stop being a bossy critic of your fellow Knick fans - start being a real fan, Chuck.

But I'm a BAUS!!!

Ricky Chuck Rozay Norray approves....BAWSE!

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

For exactly that statement. Stop being a GM, start being a fan.

Watch the games not the numbers.

Stop being a bossy critic of your fellow Knick fans - start being a real fan, Chuck.

But I'm a BAUS!!!

Ricky Chuck Rozay Norray approves....BAWSE!

Lol

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

A very good scoring specialist? That was Eddie House. True or false? Right now Melo is a top 5 player.

I mean lets just call it like we see it no? Ive not been impressed by much he has done as Knick (considering the cost) but this has been a great year. Carousel of injuries, guys coming and going, tons of lineup changes... but the one consistent thing this year has been Melo. Dude wins the scoring title, all star and leads a Knick team to the 2nd seed where the next best players are Felton, JR, Chandler and a bunch of guys in their 40s.

Now if Melo goes cold, shoots 40%, takes 30 shots a game and Knicks lose to the Celtics in 6 run him out of town.

Does anyone who's been watching think thats happening?

This thing has yet to play out, and Melo has yet to earn his NY stripes.. thats gonna happen in the playoffs (or not). All I know the guy has delivered this season, Knicks are #2 seed and your talking about advanced stats that paint him as a scoring specialist? cmon man...

I just want the Knicks to compete for a title. Melo has put them in position to do that. Some scoring specialist!

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

A very good scoring specialist? That was Eddie House. True or false? Right now Melo is a top 5 player.

I mean lets just call it like we see it no? Ive not been impressed by much he has done as Knick (considering the cost) but this has been a great year. Carousel of injuries, guys coming and going, tons of lineup changes... but the one consistent thing this year has been Melo. Dude wins the scoring title, all star and leads a Knick team to the 2nd seed where the next best players are Felton, JR, Chandler and a bunch of guys in their 40s.

Now if Melo goes cold, shoots 40%, takes 30 shots a game and Knicks lose to the Celtics in 6 run him out of town.

Does anyone who's been watching think thats happening?

This thing has yet to play out, and Melo has yet to earn his NY stripes.. thats gonna happen in the playoffs (or not). All I know the guy has delivered this season, Knicks are #2 seed and your talking about advanced stats that paint him as a scoring specialist? cmon man...

I just want the Knicks to compete for a title. Melo has put them in position to do that. Some scoring specialist!

Same thing happened to Patrick when he was playing...He wasn't David Robinson, he wasn't Olajuwon, he wasn't Shaq, etc...

This I know. He was a DAMN GOOD PLAYER, maybe even great! Funny, how we rain accolades on Ewing after the fact, but when he was here, we took him for granted, and backhand complimented all those years.

Just like Melo. If there was no Lebron or Durant, he'd be the consensus best Small Forward, as well as, top 3 player in the league.

Such as the way in the Big Apple. There was no ELITE In Eli Manning until his 2 chips. Before, he was just the slightly goofy brother of Peyton.

All Melo needs to do is 1 chip in NY, and his critics will forever be silenced. 1 Championship, and he would have eclipsed Patrick Ewing in stature, and be in the same breadth revered as Clyde, Debusschere, Bradley, Monroe, and Reed.

For now, he'll have to settle for Bernard King 2.0.

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yet he said nothing other than that some of the advanced stats don't match his eyeball test, which is hardly a brilliant insight.
I've given Melo a lot of credit for being a very good scoring specialist this year. I'm not sure what you or Fish are disagreeing with.

A very good scoring specialist? That was Eddie House. True or false? Right now Melo is a top 5 player.

I mean lets just call it like we see it no? Ive not been impressed by much he has done as Knick (considering the cost) but this has been a great year. Carousel of injuries, guys coming and going, tons of lineup changes... but the one consistent thing this year has been Melo. Dude wins the scoring title, all star and leads a Knick team to the 2nd seed where the next best players are Felton, JR, Chandler and a bunch of guys in their 40s.

Now if Melo goes cold, shoots 40%, takes 30 shots a game and Knicks lose to the Celtics in 6 run him out of town.

Does anyone who's been watching think thats happening?

This thing has yet to play out, and Melo has yet to earn his NY stripes.. thats gonna happen in the playoffs (or not). All I know the guy has delivered this season, Knicks are #2 seed and your talking about advanced stats that paint him as a scoring specialist? cmon man...

I just want the Knicks to compete for a title. Melo has put them in position to do that. Some scoring specialist!

Same thing happened to Patrick when he was playing...He wasn't David Robinson, he wasn't Olajuwon, he wasn't Shaq, etc...

This I know. He was a DAMN GOOD PLAYER, maybe even great! Funny, how we rain accolades on Ewing after the fact, but when he was here, we took him for granted, and backhand complimented all those years.

Just like Melo. If there was no Lebron or Durant, he'd be the consensus best Small Forward, as well as, top 3 player in the league.

Such as the way in the Big Apple. There was no ELITE In Eli Manning until his 2 chips. Before, he was just the slightly goofy brother of Peyton.

All Melo needs to do is 1 chip in NY, and his critics will forever be silenced. 1 Championship, and he would have eclipsed Patrick Ewing in stature, and be in the same breadth revered as Clyde, Debusschere, Bradley, Monroe, and Reed.

For now, he'll have to settle for Bernard King 2.0.

People forget that Patrick wanted out at the end of his run here because the comlete fan base didn't give him enough credit while he was here. Remember the contingent of people that wanted him stapled to the bench when Camby got traded here? That was even before the playoff run. There's been some revisionist history surrounding Patrick - but that's the way it goes. If Melo doesn't win a chip I have a feeling his career arc will be similar, especially after he retires.

We all know who the Knick haters are!!!

Well, at least we know who the Knicks-fan haters are.

What's really scary is if you take out some games where Melo was hurt and played lousy, the once or twice he got injured early in a game as bad luck and games he should've sat, Melo easily could've averaged 30 ppg, maybe more and his FG% will be more impressive. Melo has been a beast this year and stepped up his game and I give him a lot of credit. This guy is a lot more multi-dimensional than the guy who played for the Denver Nuggets, in my opinion.

When he came here I said he was top 15. He's definitely top 5 in my mind right now.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Uptown wrote:Typical BS from the anit-Melo crowd. Instead of giving this man his due, you guys babble on about how the scoring title doean't mean anything anymore, or that Durant gvae up weeks ago. Durant didn't give up, Melo just went on an extraordinary run (avering 40pts over 6 games) and 35 for the month. Is it really that hard to give the man credit. Sheshhh!!!!

I was just about to hammer out a response but thank you for taking care of that for me

"but he's inefficient and the stats indicate that he isn't very good and blah blah blah!"

whatever - I don't understand the point of posting here if you can't even get excited about the biggest news this team has had in a very, very long time. People did backflips here when David Lee made the All Star Game yet now a scoring title is ultimately a notch above meaningless. Whatever

Then let me explain:

You trying to dictate what people need to be excited about is what turns people off. And if this was a thread celebrating the division title you wouldn't see these posts but I don't see any threads celebrating the division title. We do have 100s of threads celebrating MElo and zero threads celebrating the Knicks. There was a time when people in this board understood the difference.

loweyecue wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Uptown wrote:Typical BS from the anit-Melo crowd. Instead of giving this man his due, you guys babble on about how the scoring title doean't mean anything anymore, or that Durant gvae up weeks ago. Durant didn't give up, Melo just went on an extraordinary run (avering 40pts over 6 games) and 35 for the month. Is it really that hard to give the man credit. Sheshhh!!!!

I was just about to hammer out a response but thank you for taking care of that for me

"but he's inefficient and the stats indicate that he isn't very good and blah blah blah!"

whatever - I don't understand the point of posting here if you can't even get excited about the biggest news this team has had in a very, very long time. People did backflips here when David Lee made the All Star Game yet now a scoring title is ultimately a notch above meaningless. Whatever

Then let me explain:

You trying to dictate what people need to be excited about is what turns people off. And if this was a thread celebrating the division title you wouldn't see these posts but I don't see any threads celebrating the division title. We do have 100s of threads celebrating MElo and zero threads celebrating the Knicks. There was a time when people in this board understood the difference.

Zero threads is a bit of an exaggeration no?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

loweyecue wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Uptown wrote:Typical BS from the anit-Melo crowd. Instead of giving this man his due, you guys babble on about how the scoring title doean't mean anything anymore, or that Durant gvae up weeks ago. Durant didn't give up, Melo just went on an extraordinary run (avering 40pts over 6 games) and 35 for the month. Is it really that hard to give the man credit. Sheshhh!!!!

I was just about to hammer out a response but thank you for taking care of that for me

"but he's inefficient and the stats indicate that he isn't very good and blah blah blah!"

whatever - I don't understand the point of posting here if you can't even get excited about the biggest news this team has had in a very, very long time. People did backflips here when David Lee made the All Star Game yet now a scoring title is ultimately a notch above meaningless. Whatever

Then let me explain:

You trying to dictate what people need to be excited about is what turns people off. And if this was a thread celebrating the division title you wouldn't see these posts but I don't see any threads celebrating the division title. We do have 100s of threads celebrating MElo and zero threads celebrating the Knicks. There was a time when people in this board understood the difference.

Well put. You have made it into my signature!

tkf wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

jrodmc wrote:"Look at Melo, he doesn't have any cool patches on his warmup!"
"Oh, look Melo's got a stupid patch on his warmup!"

"How dare ye mention Melo in the same breath as Ewing!"
"Division Title? You're just as meaningless as Ewing was Melo!"

The Somber-tics have spoken! Please, bring them a goblet of something meaningful!

Screw them! CONGRATS TO MELO FOR THE SCORING TITLE AND THE ATLANTIC DIVISION TITLE!!!!!

Exactly, people act like it wasn't 13 years + that we had won the Division Title... like the last scoring champ the knicks had wasn't 28 years ago... complete BS to just dismiss this years accomplishments for this team and Melo

this team hasn't won a title in 40 years why so much emphasis on scoring title?.. if some people are not impressed then so be it...

Weren't you the same exact troll telling others on RealGM how Melo "never won a scoring title" dating back to the trade? That's all you harped over as a way of diminishing and/or discrediting Anthony's scoring ability; is that he never won a scoring title. Now, it's eating you alive that you can no longer state such. Isn't it TKF?

You forgot to mention the facts that Melo ranked 12th in scoring during only his rookie season and never looked back. One of the greatest pure scorers this game has ever seen. You refused to mention how he ranked 8th in scoring back in 05-06. 2nd in 06-07 behind only Kobe Bryant. 4th in 07-08 only behind Iverson, Bryant and LeBron. 3rd in 09-10 behind only LeBron and Durant. 3rd in 10-11 behind only LeBron and Durant.

And now that he's beat out the scoring champion in Kevin Durant for his scoring title here in 2012-2013? You're still spinning shit. Acting as if the scoring title doesn't matter but yet during the offseason you used Anthony never winning a scoring title against him as a way of diminishing his scoring ability. You are by far the worst type of troll/tool out there. You're a hypocritical hypocrite.