Knicks · Melo can or cannot do... (page 2)

atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

+100

So you guys never got excited when Gallinari went on any sort of streak? It was just as unimpressive as Melo's right?

Actually I didn't think too much of it at the time because back then the heated discussions were Gallo vs Chandler. Chandler went down with season injury one who of which I vouched as talented, if not more so than Gallo and thought his hot stretch should have been kept in perspective. But it was a hot stretch nonetheless.

People are doing the same with Melo's stretch too though. No ones saying he surpassed Lebron with his latest streak.

They're equating it to ECF appearance based on what? He got hot last yr and we could barely win a game against the Heat? They had no Bosh when we played them? Why didn't hot streak lead to a 4-2 or 4-3 series against them?

I thought Bosh came back in time for the series? I know you're gonna say something about Melo having excuses attached to him but the team was extremely depleted last year. You really think - with the roster we had last year - that the Knicks could take the Heat further than they did? Winning one game was surprising enough.

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

+100

So you guys never got excited when Gallinari went on any sort of streak? It was just as unimpressive as Melo's right?

Actually I didn't think too much of it at the time because back then the heated discussions were Gallo vs Chandler. Chandler went down with season injury one who of which I vouched as talented, if not more so than Gallo and thought his hot stretch should have been kept in perspective. But it was a hot stretch nonetheless.

People are doing the same with Melo's stretch too though. No ones saying he surpassed Lebron with his latest streak.

They're equating it to ECF appearance based on what? He got hot last yr and we could barely win a game against the Heat? They had no Bosh when we played them? Why didn't hot streak lead to a 4-2 or 4-3 series against them?

I thought Bosh came back in time for the series? I know you're gonna say something about Melo having excuses attached to him but the team was extremely depleted last year. You really think - with the roster we had last year - that the Knicks could take the Heat further than they did? Winning one game was surprising enough.

Bosh played the whole series versus the Knicks. He played a game vs indy and only 3 vs Bos.

yellowboy90 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

+100

So you guys never got excited when Gallinari went on any sort of streak? It was just as unimpressive as Melo's right?

Actually I didn't think too much of it at the time because back then the heated discussions were Gallo vs Chandler. Chandler went down with season injury one who of which I vouched as talented, if not more so than Gallo and thought his hot stretch should have been kept in perspective. But it was a hot stretch nonetheless.

People are doing the same with Melo's stretch too though. No ones saying he surpassed Lebron with his latest streak.

They're equating it to ECF appearance based on what? He got hot last yr and we could barely win a game against the Heat? They had no Bosh when we played them? Why didn't hot streak lead to a 4-2 or 4-3 series against them?

I thought Bosh came back in time for the series? I know you're gonna say something about Melo having excuses attached to him but the team was extremely depleted last year. You really think - with the roster we had last year - that the Knicks could take the Heat further than they did? Winning one game was surprising enough.

Bosh played the whole series versus the Knicks. He played a game vs indy and only 3 vs Bos.

Yup, he played all 5 games vs the Knicks, only Chalmers, Wade, and Lebron played more minutes.

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

Who's the best pure scorer then?

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

how about defend the post, box out, pass, and causes stress on the defense. Those are some sustainable things. post players score about .667 ppp and shoot in the 30s against him. That helps the team. So now you have two things.

So its Team Melo vs. Team Nuggets on a Knicks message board when NY finally has a TEAM that could go all the way.

Yeah, who could expect different?

Knicksfan wrote:So its Team Melo vs. Team Nuggets on a Knicks message board when NY finally has a TEAM that could go all the way.

Yeah, who could expect different?

I think its more Team Knicks vs Team Nuggets. Most of the people here are only sticking up for a player on their favorite team. Its kind of annoying when that gets generalized into being a Melo fanboy.

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them realisticaly winning a 7-game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they somehow avoid both of them and win the Western conference)

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

Who's the best pure scorer then?

explain pure scorer? I mean is there a pure rebounder? assist man? etc?

Durant won the scoring title 3 years in a row... lebron has over 3k more points than carmelo and they both came into the league at the same time... aren't those guys better scorers.. forget pure, or whatever that means in a scoring.. no one has really been able to define that, yet the term is used, heck... overused...

TeamBall wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:So its Team Melo vs. Team Nuggets on a Knicks message board when NY finally has a TEAM that could go all the way.

Yeah, who could expect different?

I think its more Team Knicks vs Team Nuggets. Most of the people here are only sticking up for a player on their favorite team. Its kind of annoying when that gets generalized into being a Melo fanboy.

Its actually Team Melo because no matter how much he helps the Knicks, he is always considered this horrible player by many here, and others feel compelled to defend him.

Meanwhile, yeah, it should be about Team Knicks! I guess some people got so used to negativity, even when the team looks primed for an exciting long playoff run, they still need to find something to criticize.

Knicksfan wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:So its Team Melo vs. Team Nuggets on a Knicks message board when NY finally has a TEAM that could go all the way.

Yeah, who could expect different?

I think its more Team Knicks vs Team Nuggets. Most of the people here are only sticking up for a player on their favorite team. Its kind of annoying when that gets generalized into being a Melo fanboy.

Its actually Team Melo because no matter how much he helps the Knicks, he is always considered this horrible player by many here, and others feel compelled to defend him.

Meanwhile, yeah, it should be about Team Knicks! I guess some people got so used to negativity, even when the team looks primed for an exciting long playoff run, they still need to find something to criticize.

Lol it seems like that doesnt it? It does make for some good discussion to get through these next couple of days though so I welcome it.

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

TOO LATE!!! Melo's amongst the Elite!!!! Melo and Eli, perfect together. 3G4G, you are not beyond hope!

(waits for tkf to join the fold, or figure out how to downplay "elite")

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not even remotely saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them winning a 7game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they avoid both and come out on top of the Western conference or think about other teams' matchups)

well here is the flaw in your argument.. you use the pistons and then kind of dismiss them.. maybe there hasn't been many because many teams have not followed that model.. denver has to some degree and they are having success... same with the grizzlies..

next, we don't have a a genuine leader,or star....go to guy? really? JR smith has been a better go to guy than carmelo it seems.. why does this go to guy thing seem to weigh so heavily in your discussion. good teams win, they have a go to mentality as a team.... Was Duncan really a go to guy on the spurs, or was it a bit of parker, manu, one year horry, speedy claxton, steve kerr, all of them have made huge plays, winning plays for that team, in their title years..

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

yes, and carmelo has failed miserably there.... Denver is near the top of the league in scoring, points in the paint, points off turnovers... last time I checked, that wins in regular season and in postseason...

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

honestly, you haven't provided anything material here.. just hoping and wishing, and if that is what you want to do.. fine, but you can't say with a straight face that the knicks have a chance at the finals, and Denver who had a better record in a tougher conference doesn't because they don't have a "go to guy" or because the knicks had injuries.. I mean so did denver.. not a good excuse man..

Both denver and the knicks have worthy first round opponents.. the warriors are good and dangerous... the celts are still a savvy bunch and pierce has a history of killing the knicks.. Not sure how you can draw up any kind of real argument that supports the knicks having a better chance than the nuggets do, surviving the first round... honestly....

Both teams can lose in the first round.. the difference is.. Denver has a window that is wide open.. the knicks don't.... so enjoy the ride... as a fan you should, but at least be realistic... and fair..

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

Who's the best pure scorer then?

explain pure scorer? I mean is there a pure rebounder? assist man? etc?

Durant won the scoring title 3 years in a row... lebron has over 3k more points than carmelo and they both came into the league at the same time... aren't those guys better scorers.. forget pure, or whatever that means in a scoring.. no one has really been able to define that, yet the term is used, heck... overused...

A pure scorer is someone who can score in multiple ways and make it seem effortless. Usually players that have a variety of go to moves from the Post, Wing, 3 point range, midrange, and Slashing to the hoop. Basically a threat to score from anywhere on the court.

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

Who's the best pure scorer then?

explain pure scorer? I mean is there a pure rebounder? assist man? etc?

Durant won the scoring title 3 years in a row... lebron has over 3k more points than carmelo and they both came into the league at the same time... aren't those guys better scorers.. forget pure, or whatever that means in a scoring.. no one has really been able to define that, yet the term is used, heck... overused...

well...I know 3k points is something, however I'm pretty sure there's not such a big difference in ppg (except for sitting out the last couple of games in a season James never misses a game, while Melo's had his share of injuries, that does account for something whichever way you look at it)

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:atleast 3g considers melo an elite offensive player. will that help you homers?

Offering good money for the 3G4G post that includes those exact words.

Melo is amongst the Elite in scoring, no one has ever questioned that...BEST PURE SCORER...NO! Is he this yr's Scoring Champ. Does he do anything remotely sustainable from a TEAM perspective other than scoring NO!

I've called him the best STREAK SCORER in the league several times this yr. That's it. That's all he's getting from me....nothing else.

Who's the best pure scorer then?

explain pure scorer? I mean is there a pure rebounder? assist man? etc?

Durant won the scoring title 3 years in a row... lebron has over 3k more points than carmelo and they both came into the league at the same time... aren't those guys better scorers.. forget pure, or whatever that means in a scoring.. no one has really been able to define that, yet the term is used, heck... overused...

A pure scorer is someone who can score in multiple ways and make it seem effortless. Usually players that have a variety of go to moves from the Post, Wing, 3 point range, midrange, and Slashing to the hoop. Basically a threat to score from anywhere on the court.

Again, let's go look at that 2013 shot chart, shall we?

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not even remotely saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them winning a 7game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they avoid both and come out on top of the Western conference or think about other teams' matchups)

well here is the flaw in your argument.. you use the pistons and then kind of dismiss them.. maybe there hasn't been many because many teams have not followed that model.. denver has to some degree and they are having success... same with the grizzlies..

next, we don't have a a genuine leader,or star....go to guy? really? JR smith has been a better go to guy than carmelo it seems.. why does this go to guy thing seem to weigh so heavily in your discussion. good teams win, they have a go to mentality as a team.... Was Duncan really a go to guy on the spurs, or was it a bit of parker, manu, one year horry, speedy claxton, steve kerr, all of them have made huge plays, winning plays for that team, in their title years..

Read anything about the Spurs chips, especially when they beat the Pistons, and you'll read line after line of how Duncan was their everything. He was the team. Horry? Really? In 99 when they beat our team, they were comparing Duncan to Russell. That's Bill Russell. So yes, Duncan was definitely a go to guy.

[

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:
The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

yes, and carmelo has failed miserably there.... Denver is near the top of the league in scoring, points in the paint, points off turnovers... last time I checked, that wins in regular season and in postseason...

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

honestly, you haven't provided anything material here.. just hoping and wishing, and if that is what you want to do.. fine, but you can't say with a straight face that the knicks have a chance at the finals, and Denver who had a better record in a tougher conference doesn't because they don't have a "go to guy" or because the knicks had injuries.. I mean so did denver.. not a good excuse man..

Both denver and the knicks have worthy first round opponents.. the warriors are good and dangerous... the celts are still a savvy bunch and pierce has a history of killing the knicks.. Not sure how you can draw up any kind of real argument that supports the knicks having a better chance than the nuggets do, surviving the first round... honestly....

Both teams can lose in the first round.. the difference is.. Denver has a window that is wide open.. the knicks don't.... so enjoy the ride... as a fan you should, but at least be realistic... and fair..

Denver's window is wide open to ...what? What about their model explains your unbridled optimism about the future of a franchise that has gone nowhere in recent history without Melo? Just asking. You sound so sure, but there's nothing there to support your point, other than your feeling that their model is better than ours.

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not even remotely saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them winning a 7game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they avoid both and come out on top of the Western conference or think about other teams' matchups)

well here is the flaw in your argument.. you use the pistons and then kind of dismiss them.. maybe there hasn't been many because many teams have not followed that model.. denver has to some degree and they are having success... same with the grizzlies..

next, we don't have a a genuine leader,or star....go to guy? really? JR smith has been a better go to guy than carmelo it seems.. why does this go to guy thing seem to weigh so heavily in your discussion. good teams win, they have a go to mentality as a team.... Was Duncan really a go to guy on the spurs, or was it a bit of parker, manu, one year horry, speedy claxton, steve kerr, all of them have made huge plays, winning plays for that team, in their title years..

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

yes, and carmelo has failed miserably there.... Denver is near the top of the league in scoring, points in the paint, points off turnovers... last time I checked, that wins in regular season and in postseason...

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

honestly, you haven't provided anything material here.. just hoping and wishing, and if that is what you want to do.. fine, but you can't say with a straight face that the knicks have a chance at the finals, and Denver who had a better record in a tougher conference doesn't because they don't have a "go to guy" or because the knicks had injuries.. I mean so did denver.. not a good excuse man..

Both denver and the knicks have worthy first round opponents.. the warriors are good and dangerous... the celts are still a savvy bunch and pierce has a history of killing the knicks.. Not sure how you can draw up any kind of real argument that supports the knicks having a better chance than the nuggets do, surviving the first round... honestly....

Both teams can lose in the first round.. the difference is.. Denver has a window that is wide open.. the knicks don't.... so enjoy the ride... as a fan you should, but at least be realistic... and fair..

1) Where's the flaw in me mentioning the Pistons? I used them to make a point (you have to pretty much be the best defensive team to win if you don't have people who can score for you in bunches), and the Nuggets are no defensive juggernaut, nor do they have players that can lift the team by scoring 30+ points on a regular basis).

2) I don't know for how much longer I can continue debating with you when you so blatantly despise Melo....seriously you can hate him but still admit he's our best player and the one we rely on most to win us games, regardless of how valuable JR has been.

And the reason this "go-to guy" weighs so heavily on my discussion is really simple and has been pointed out before more than once....take a look at NBA championship winning teams and tell me how many of them had a leader/star you could point to that led the team to the title and how many of them just had a "solid team" with basicaly no standouts (apart from the recent Pistons team ofcourse).
And don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying Melo does it all, or should do it all, that's why it's a team sport, and he won't be our best player every single game, but he IS the Knicks leader and he will take charge 9 times out of 10 and will be the most influental player whichever way you look at it.
And yeah Duncan didn't have to do it all because he had sufficient help, but to say he's been anything other than colossal for the Spurs is an understatement.

3) This is really your choice of focus....you choose to focus on several 1st round exits (and let's not kid ourselves by saying he had a terrific team around him), I choose to focus on the fact that he made it to the WCF and has never missed the playoffs. Now he has a better team (granted it could be much better if we were healthy) and he himself has grown and matured into an obviously better and more complete player than he ever was at Denver. So excuse me for being optimistic about our chances.

4) and your material is supposed to convince me otherwise? Look, I have nothing against Denver, I like that franchise and generaly want to see it do well, but having a good regular season means nothing if you're outmatched and outgunned with next to no chance of winning in the playoffs.

5) sorry but the Nuggets had a way more healthy squad for the majority of the season, they've only gotten a couple of injuries towards the end of the season and even those didn't keep players (except for Gallinari) out for long, unlike the Knicks who have gone banged up throughout the season, so yeah I think I'm entitled to point out that the Knicks' record would've been better had we not been ravaged by injuries and subsequently the team would also be looked at from a bit of a different perspective.

6) Denver has a bright future, but I don't see how anyone can think the future isn't bright in New York...Melo's still young enough to build around for a number of years, the Knicks are one of the biggest and wealthies franchises, people actually want to play there again because Melo & co. finaly made them relevant again and once you have a star to build around the team can become better each year by adding pieces. If you ask me the future looks as bright as it ever has for New York looking at the past decade.

And I'm sorry if you feel that way, but just because you dissagree with my opinion it doesn't make it unrealistic or unfair, just meens we have different views.