Knicks · Next year--if Dallas wants Chandler back (page 3)

Chandler's been having a rough year, and I've always been a Marion fan, but this is a reach to say the least. Chandler should bounce back and Marion is aging. I wouldn't be opposed to trading Tyson but we gotta get equal value. Amare is always hurt, Kenyon is old and who knows if he returns, Copeland is a combo forward and has no business at the 5, and Camby isn't reliable at all. That's a slew of backups. As much as I'd like another guard, we'd need another center back.

who said anything about dallas wanting chandler back? is this a rumor or a hypothetical trade situation?

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Briggs, you give a lot of good insights but you seem to have a short memory. Countless times I've seen you build a guy up to superhero status after a good run or down to junk after a bad run. This is the same guy you said had saved our season not too long ago. Injured players don't produce well. You don't trade a guy every time he gets injured.

unless you are Melo or Amar'e then you wait until the play well then trade them while their value are high.

Jordan and Bledsoe are not upgrades over Shump and Chandler. Jordan doesn't have a post game and he is a worse FT shooter.

The first sentence applies to everyone. You always sell high, not low.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Briggs, you give a lot of good insights but you seem to have a short memory. Countless times I've seen you build a guy up to superhero status after a good run or down to junk after a bad run. This is the same guy you said had saved our season not too long ago. Injured players don't produce well. You don't trade a guy every time he gets injured.

Almost every player is injured in the playoffs--either you can play or you cant. Kenyon Martin had to be carted off the court a week ago. He came to play. What happened to Tyson chandler last year in the playoffs? Come to play.

I guess Derek Rose is a dick for being a no show 2 years in a row too!
Let's at least give Tyson more than one game back. What will your thoughts be if Tyson has one of his 25 rebound games in game 2? Give him a max contract extension?

MaTT4281 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I look at it this way. If Tyson Chandler is going to give me 5 pts and 7 rebounds while we get harassed in the paint in the playoffs--hes worth much lower than 14,5mm. Id like to get a nice sum for him as well(although I highly doubt it) or Id like to see him actually play well in the playoffs. If he does not give it to me in this playoffs--then I would love to move his 14mm for less money and redistribute it to those who will. Also I can make a case that Tyson is on his last legs. Hes going to be 13 years in the league and has missed nearly 40 games the last 2 years. Way too much $$$ to injury prone athletes. Now time for Tyson to channel his inner Kenyon Martin and give me 14-8-2 0 pts and 5 rebounds---I could do that for the Knicks:)

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id...

I'm counting 16 games this season and 4 games last season Tyson's missed. Kenyon's been terrific, but let's not write the guy off so soon. We just lost Sheed and Kurt due to age, Camby's no where to be seen, STAT's busy making our DL look phenomenal, and even K-Mart has missed 7 of our last 8 regular season games. Not quite ready to count on Barron to fill the void every night.

Maybe he's counting the 16 games last year was shortened by due to the lockout also?

I'm not opposed to Chandler being traded considering his age, but I do agree with those who say that he's being undervalued. He's had a lot on his plate the last few years, schedule wise. A full offseason to rest and Chandler should be back to putting up good numbers and playing strong defense again. That's when you trade him IMO. If Tyson plays well in the playoffs, then NY has more options over the summer, including keeping him in NY. Either way we can do better than Marion. GMs will offer more. Confident of that.

This thread sucks...

VCoug wrote:No way, if we're trading Chandler we need more back then just a practically washed up 3. Any trade would have to include a starting quality center and at least another piece. I've thought that OKC, GS, and LAC would make the most sense in terms of need and assets. OKC could trade Perkins and someone they got in the Harden trade, LAC has DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe, and GS has Bogut and some other nice players they'd probably be willing to give up. As much as I like Martin and appreciate what he's done for us I'd prefer not to be going forward with a 35-year old, undersized center.

Thank you. Can't someone posted a Marion for Chandler. First of all, Centers are a dying breed and when you have a good (mobile) one, you either keep him or, you get more than Marion in the deal.

Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

Briggs probably would have traded Harden for Marion because Harden struggled in the NBA finals. This thread is ridiculous.

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

He missed two weeks? Im 44 if I miss two weeks of not running I can still play pick up with other physical problems. Ive got to believe Tyson 14 years younger and likely in much better shape can miss two weeks and get up and down and score. Hes been terrible in his 6 playoff games for us. I would like for him to step up. Play like you did against Oklahoma

Guys can be injured in 2 consecutive playoff series. As a fan, it's natural to feel those 6 games are super-important but you're gonna make tons of bad decisions if they're based on 6 game samples.

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

He missed two weeks? Im 44 if I miss two weeks of not running I can still play pick up with other physical problems. Ive got to believe Tyson 14 years younger and likely in much better shape can miss two weeks and get up and down and score. Hes been terrible in his 6 playoff games for us. I would like for him to step up. Play like you did against Oklahoma

he missed 19 of 20 games. He plays against professionals not guys at the YMCA. Their level of conditioning is light years beyond what internet geniuses like us can even imagine. The fact that you are able to compete afterward doesn't speak to to rigors of professional sports.

He's out there with a bunch of guys that can run like a gazelle. His inability to work on conditioning would of course be a significant set back. Players OFTEN put off playing until they can get their conditioning to where it needs to be. Because it was the playoffs, he tried to give it a go. I expect him to be a much improved players tonight.

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

Briggs probably would have traded Harden for Marion because Harden struggled in the NBA finals. This thread is ridiculous.

Maybe but someone posted some of Chandler playoff numbers last night/this morning and they didn't look good. The trade he suggested was bad but if Tyson contiues his struggles then maybe. Sell high.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

Briggs probably would have traded Harden for Marion because Harden struggled in the NBA finals. This thread is ridiculous.

Maybe but someone posted some of Chandler playoff numbers last night/this morning and they didn't look good. The trade he suggested was bad but if Tyson contiues his struggles then maybe. Sell high.

say what you want about his post season success, we wouldn't be in our current position at the top of the Atlantic if he hadn't produced as he did and, if he wasn't part of the change in our defensive philosophy.

Its amazing how a Knick can be so loved until they have a bad game and then its....sell high. Been on this board for years so, comes as no surprise. Knick fans, only value guys that are on other teams or, former Knicks once they are gone.

DurzoBlint wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lets just hope Tyson remembers to bring is cahones to the Garden tonight and produces instead of being beat to position and held scoreless. Im asking for a guy who makes 14.5mm who says he is 100% healthy to step up.

said his conditioning was the problem because of the games he had sat out. I expect to see a more productive Tyson tonight. Also, to say he was held scoreless, which is true but, he played very, very limited minutes so, that might be a bit misleading on your part. I think had he played more, he definitely would have scored. The game started opening up more in the 2nd half which, Chandler played none of (unless I'm mistaken).

If Tyson wouldve played and Kenyon didn't-- we wouldve lost. Earl Baroon didnt play for 3 months and pulled down 18 rebounds. No points no FGAs no FT and 5 rebounds while we got pounded inside when he was in there. Go look at their shot chart. What was the first thing Doc Rivers said after evaluating game 1--lets go to KG. Im rooting for Tyson to shut me up.

You can't compare a guy coming off an injury that PREVENTED him form properly working on his conditioning with guys that were healthy and had ample time to work on their conditioning. Tyson has been solid for us this season and I fully expect that to continue. What your saying is grossly unfair.

Briggs probably would have traded Harden for Marion because Harden struggled in the NBA finals. This thread is ridiculous.

Maybe but someone posted some of Chandler playoff numbers last night/this morning and they didn't look good. The trade he suggested was bad but if Tyson contiues his struggles then maybe. Sell high.

say what you want about his post season success, we wouldn't be in our current position at the top of the Atlantic if he hadn't produced as he did and, if he wasn't part of the change in our defensive philosophy.

Its amazing how a Knick can be so loved until they have a bad game and then its....sell high. Been on this board for years so, comes as no surprise. Knick fans, only value guys that are on other teams or, former Knicks once they are gone.

You are right about that. That is why I struggle with Trading Tyson because you are not going to get enough value back. Him coming back and playing through injury and having the flu really makes it unfair to judge his Knick performances. It is what it is.

Briggs I vehemetly disagreed with you when you said we didnt have a SG when we had JR shump and kidd and felton as it turns out and I disagree with trading Tyson for Marion the same. I agree that the Knicks should definitely move Tyson and Amare in the offseason and upgrade the PG position so that Melo can be productive through his 2nd Knick contract

Here are some of the numbers posted I was referring to.

ruruland

April 23, 2013 at 12:17 am

Talked about this with Herring earlier. Obviously the normal disclaimer: Love Chandler, think he’s an excellent player in a lot of ways and I understand he had flu last year and bulging disc could be problem.

But check out his playoff numbers in Knicks career.

Per 36: 5.9 points, 44 fg%, 60 ft %, .491 TS, 9.5 rbds, 1.3 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 1.2 steals.

I don’t care how active Chandler is on defense (we know he hasn’t protected rim well, go back and watch him watch layup line in Miami series) or how much of a threat he is on dive (which it seems Martin and all high screeners in 4-out at least come close to replicating), or how well he sets screens, it’s virtually impossible to have a positive impact on the game with those numbers.

But how does that compare to his career playoff history?

It’s normal for most players to see precipitous declines in efficiency during post-season, but Chandler has had drops in two critical categories — rebounds % (18.4-16.6) block % (3.7-3.3)….

And he has a career 11.1 usage in the playoffs and has nearly half as many turnovers as field goals made.

And check this, since his first playoff year in Chicago where he actually tried a post move or two, has scored in single digits in 37 of 53 playoff games… I mean shit.

Since his first year in playoffs, he hasn’t scored more than 15 points in 53 playoff games.

Worse yet, he’s only had more than 15 rebounds twice in those 53 playoff games.

As a point of reference, in the same time frame and in 7 fewer playoff games, Carmelo Anthony has one.

Chandler has reached double digit rebounds in 16 of 53 playoff games since his first playoff series (30 percent of time).

As a point of reference, Anthony has reached double digit rebounds in 13 of 46 playoff games in that same stretch (28 % of time).

Melo’s rebound, steal and block percentage go up in the playoff. Way up if just compare the same time frames.

The pt issue is my next point…

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ruruland

April 23, 2013 at 12:34 am

Chandler has played 30 or fewer minutes in 23 of 53 playoff games and has been an absolute foul machine, without the benefit of shots blocked.

Chandler averages 4.8 fouls per 36 minutes in the playoffs, getting just 1.7 blocks for the damage (his playoff blocks high per 36 was also set his first year)

As a point of reference, KMart, who does not have Chandler’s defensive reputation as a rim protector (which seems odd to me), averages 4.1 fouls per 36 minutes in his playoff career to go along with 1.3 blocks, just about the same ratio.

That’s why K-Mart is virtually the same defender Chandler is. Not as good of a rebounder, * can be* but great in help situations, versatile, better on guards and wings while Chandler is better against bigs in post.

But the Knicks need Chandler to be a lot more than KMArt (who everyone should respect and appreciate by now).

Is Chandler the best player in the Knicks? That’s for people like Owen to decide.

All I know is he needs to be a lot better. I mean, a lot better.

He can’t be the no-show guy he was a few years in New Orleans and the year the Bobcats made the playoffs.

Chandler’s atrocious play in 2009 was a big reason Denver won by an average of 25 points per game. That should not have been such a one-sided series (many picked the Hornets to win that series).

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ruruland
April 23, 2013 at 12:41 am

Of course, he was amazing with Dallas three years ago. He has to be that guy again.

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ruruland
April 23, 2013 at 1:04 am

Chandle’s 6.7 points per 36 in playoffs last year was 39th lowest in NBA history of players who played at least 28 mpg and 4 playoff games in a playoff season.

He has three seasons in the lower 150.

There have been 2768 seasons that fit the criteria, putting all three of Chandler’s seasons in the fifth percentile or below.

WOW.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...