Knicks · A question we need to ask ourselves (page 5)

I love how all are thinking the knicks "Blew it".

No, Indy executed and beat us. How you ask yourselves?

Not by assigning blame and putting a band aid on it.

Nalod wrote:Chandler made a jumper. OMG, it was incredible! I had no idea he could do this. He tried to pull Hibbert out of the paint. Not rocket science here.

I love how all are thinking the knicks "Blew it".

No, Indy executed and beat us. How you ask yourselves?

Not by assigning blame and putting a band aid on it.

Don't try and down play this Nalod, any jump shooting Center makes Hibbert sweat and puts him at a disadvantage by making him run out to the shooter with slow feet.

The foul line Jumper I believe Tyson can make consistently if given the chance in the offense.

jrodmc wrote:So we needed to wait until the second round of the playoffs for our dunk and putback center to reinvent himself into Mr. Mid-Range Jumper?

He made that shot when he played at Dallas too. Many bow down and succumb and don't make themselves apart of the team offensively because of the personalities. Matter of fact when Melo was out I recall him shooting more Jumpshots.

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:So we needed to wait until the second round of the playoffs for our dunk and putback center to reinvent himself into Mr. Mid-Range Jumper?

He made that shot when he played at Dallas too. Many bow down and succumb and don't make themselves apart of the team offensively because of the personalities. Matter of fact when Melo was out I recall him shooting more Jumpshots.

I recall him missing them as well.

Because most of todays bigs can shoot a mid range shot.

FluTyson is not a threat. Its why Camby's career got prolonged until he broke down on the GW on his way to town.

Its why Marc Gasol is putting a hurt on OKC. Ibaka and Perk not hitting their shots, and Gasol can hang in the paint on Defense.

We don't have to ask ourselves questions we know the answer to.

If you got a big muthafucher like Hibbert and no Travis Knight to pull him off the boards, you gonna get killed on the boards.

Ray not aggresive enough? When you got a big waiting for him and the passing lane to tyson is not there, theres less to do. Prigg's the same. Kick out to the big who can hit the shot. Ooops, we dont' got one! FluCamby got bad feet and Dirty kurty is entombed! This is what RashWeed does well. Maybe we'll find out if weed reduces bone density, until then, he is out.

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:So we needed to wait until the second round of the playoffs for our dunk and putback center to reinvent himself into Mr. Mid-Range Jumper?

He made that shot when he played at Dallas too. Many bow down and succumb and don't make themselves apart of the team offensively because of the personalities. Matter of fact when Melo was out I recall him shooting more Jumpshots.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.htm...

According to his shot chart this season Tyson took only 39 total shots from outside the restricted area; 25 in the paint and 14 from mid-range. The year before he also took 39 shots; 30 in the paint, 8 mid-range, and 1 corner 3. His one year in Dallas he did take more shots from outside. 95 shots outside the restricted area of which 49 were in the paint and 46 were from mid-range.

Most of his shot charts look like the one from his year in Dallas; around 75%-80% of his shots happening at the basket with the others in the paint or mid-range. Since he came here he's taking around 90% of his shots at the basket with only 10% from the paint and mid-range combined.

AnubisADL wrote:

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:So we needed to wait until the second round of the playoffs for our dunk and putback center to reinvent himself into Mr. Mid-Range Jumper?

He made that shot when he played at Dallas too. Many bow down and succumb and don't make themselves apart of the team offensively because of the personalities. Matter of fact when Melo was out I recall him shooting more Jumpshots.

I recall him missing them as well.

He shot 7 for 14 from outside the paint this year (great find Vcoug). Career-wise, it looks like he hits around 40% of them, which is pretty normal for a front-court player. For whatever reason, those shots are just not part of his role here.

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:So we needed to wait until the second round of the playoffs for our dunk and putback center to reinvent himself into Mr. Mid-Range Jumper?

He made that shot when he played at Dallas too. Many bow down and succumb and don't make themselves apart of the team offensively because of the personalities. Matter of fact when Melo was out I recall him shooting more Jumpshots.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.htm...

According to his shot chart this season Tyson took only 39 total shots from outside the restricted area; 25 in the paint and 14 from mid-range. The year before he also took 39 shots; 30 in the paint, 8 mid-range, and 1 corner 3. His one year in Dallas he did take more shots from outside. 95 shots outside the restricted area of which 49 were in the paint and 46 were from mid-range.

Most of his shot charts look like the one from his year in Dallas; around 75%-80% of his shots happening at the basket with the others in the paint or mid-range. Since he came here he's taking around 90% of his shots at the basket with only 10% from the paint and mid-range combined.

Thank You ! Most Knicks fans are trying to explain to me what Tyson can't do.

VCoug wrote:This has nothing to do with need, desire, heart, or any of the other BS excuses used when maybe a team just isn't good enough. In the cases of Kidd and Chandler it's about age and injury. Kidd's obviously washed up at this point in his career and is playing pretty much the same now as he has since January; really, nothing's changed. Tyson's hurt. He missed the last month of the season with a bulging disk in his neck which he clearly hasn't recovered from. Spinal injuries are pretty serious and we shouldn't be expecting the same Tyson until next season.

Point taken. If, as you say, it's a injury issues, then he should be playing limited minutes. He should move down the bench, and allow Barron to take a shoot at the center position. If Hibbert has more obligations on the defensive end, maybe it will slow him down on offense. Everyone speaks of the playoffs as the time to put your best foot forward and step up. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

That tells me Tyson Chandler could be used to bring Hibbert out from under the basket by shooting the mid range jumper that the Pacers give up.

What made Woodson not open the floor with 3 pt shooters and does Prigioni have an injury along with Camby

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

We don't out rebound teams we outscore them and play defense. Inserting 3 pt shooters.... This approach will loosen the bunched up paint of defenders. Come on this isn't rocket science, I watched this team all freakin season.

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

A "really good team" that will get embarrassed when they play the heat. Lebron will go right at that sack of fat Indiana calls Roy Hibbert and it will be foul shots every time.

Pablo and Copeland deserve more respect than what they have been given. Pablo gets loose balls and makes deflections , Kidd has lost more than 1 step in that category.

Melo needs to receive the ball sometimes after ball movement before he shoots, it doesn't help his teammates when he starts the shot clock going one on one.

Not that much of an adjustment, you just have to know who's got it who who doesn't night in and night out.

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

We don't out rebound teams we outscore them and play defense. Inserting 3 pt shooters.... This approach will loosen the bunched up paint of defenders. Come on this isn't rocket science, I watched this team all freakin season.

And I didn't? Basketball is a game of matchups....The things that Indiana does well, nullafies the things we do well. They guard the 3 point line better than anyone, and we rely on the 3 point shot. Something has to give.....We were never a good rebonding team and Indy is one of the best which nullafies our good defensive efforts because we get the stop, but they get the second chance points....If you are paying close attention, the Pacers guard the paint and the 3 point line. The mid-range game is open and we exploited that part of the court in game 2 but not so much after that.

If we are going to exploit the 3 point line, its going to have to come against the player that West is guarding...He's not used to coming out that far and he's guarding Shump whose been slumping. The one move to make is to put Copeland in for Shump and force West to guard the 3 point line. Thats only crack I see in this Indy defense.....outside of the midrange game....

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

We don't out rebound teams we outscore them and play defense. Inserting 3 pt shooters.... This approach will loosen the bunched up paint of defenders. Come on this isn't rocket science, I watched this team all freakin season.

And I didn't? Basketball is a game of matchups....The things that Indiana does well, nullafies the things we do well. They guard the 3 point line better than anyone, and we rely on the 3 point shot. Something has to give.....We were never a good rebonding team and Indy is one of the best which nullafies our good defensive efforts because we get the stop, but they get the second chance points....If you are paying close attention, the Pacers guard the paint and the 3 point line. The mid-range game is open and we exploited that part of the court in game 2 but not so much after that.

If we are going to exploit the 3 point line, its going to have to come against the player that West is guarding...He's not used to coming out that far and he's guarding Shump whose been slumping. The one move to make is to put Copeland in for Shump and force West to guard the 3 point line. Thats only crack I see in this Indy defense.....outside of the midrange game....

When Hibbert went out and we have our 3 pt shooters in we could have posted up Melo and forced them to double. Put Copeland in at Center and mid range and low post scoring is solved. These are in game adjustments on the fly that you have to make.

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

playa2 wrote:I mean seriously the right substitutions and the Pacers buckle under pressure with our 3 pt shooter (Copeland) , with dribble drive kick.

You do know that the Pacers are the best defensive team in the league aswell as the best at defending the 3. Its not as easy as you say....Knicks aren't out there playing against themselves, the Pacers are a really good team...

We don't out rebound teams we outscore them and play defense. Inserting 3 pt shooters.... This approach will loosen the bunched up paint of defenders. Come on this isn't rocket science, I watched this team all freakin season.

And I didn't? Basketball is a game of matchups....The things that Indiana does well, nullafies the things we do well. They guard the 3 point line better than anyone, and we rely on the 3 point shot. Something has to give.....We were never a good rebonding team and Indy is one of the best which nullafies our good defensive efforts because we get the stop, but they get the second chance points....If you are paying close attention, the Pacers guard the paint and the 3 point line. The mid-range game is open and we exploited that part of the court in game 2 but not so much after that.

If we are going to exploit the 3 point line, its going to have to come against the player that West is guarding...He's not used to coming out that far and he's guarding Shump whose been slumping. The one move to make is to put Copeland in for Shump and force West to guard the 3 point line. Thats only crack I see in this Indy defense.....outside of the midrange game....

When Hibbert went out and we have our 3 pt shooters in we could have posted up Melo and forced them to double. Put Copeland in at Center and mid range and low post scoring is solved. These are in game adjustments on the fly that you have to make.

And this is why Woodson let me down. We have some obvious flaws with our roster. But it's up to the coach to find the right mix to win games. We have the players to beat the pacers. But with these high dollar bums, Woodson decides to play his favorite high salary players. Instead of playing the right players to win this series.

How do you decide to sit the only PG we have on the roster (Pablo)...and start two SG's (Felton / Shump).

How do you even start Shump, after he missed practice with swelling and soreness in his surgical knee.

How do you not play Copeland at center, to help move Hibbert out of the paint. Instead Woodson fed right into the Pacers plan, by putting two additional non offensive players in the game, after scoring a season low in points and 3's.

There is nothing this GM can do, if we continue to have a coach that doesn't take advantage of his team flexibility. We have smalls, bigs, old, young, defensive and offensive player.....we have enough of a mix to play with anybody. Felton, Melo, Shump, Martin, Chandler...I don't see any knock down shooters in that lineup. Bench...Amari, Kidd....still no knock down shooters to spread the floor.

Now look who got the least minutes....All knock down shooters and a pass first PG....Novak, Copeland, Q, Pablo. And you wonder why we only scored in the 70's....Damn Woodson, you let me down. I look at you different now! Just a very small notch above Danfoni. Woodson needs to wake up and understand how we got here. It wasn't from playing that starting 5. Martin or Chander, surrounded by knock down shooters....not scorers who needs to hold the ball the entire possession just to score. And truth be told, Martin impacts the game at center more than Chandler did this season.

This team needs to have 5 players on the floor that are offensive threats. Otherwise we are playing 4 on 5. With Martin and Chandler in the game, it's like playing 3 against 5. I wasn't a big fan of the small ball lineups, but I realized thats the makeup of this team. And thats the lineup we need to use, if we plan on beating Indy.

Go back to the double switching schemes for defense, and more shooters on the floor. Can't rely on JR (who's not a shooter) and Melo (whos not a shooter) to have a high efficient scoring day. These guys are rhytm scorers. We need knock down, catch and shoot players to open up our pick and roll game. Need a pass first PG like Pablo to log some minutes.