Knicks · Is Copeland a better long-term option then JR? (page 2)

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Hopefully we don't lose JR for nothing. I'm not a fan of his at all but he has some value and it doesn't cost anything other than money to keep him. And we don't have many options for improving the team.

What if Paul Pierce was willing to be 6th man for 3.5mm?

"Going through a dry spell? You know your cousin's pretty cute..."
Some things are just too taboo. Keep Pierce out of a Knicks jersey.

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Copeland was solid all season, very efficient scorer and was a key player to the huge run we made in march/april. He didn't just have one good game. Woodson has been reluctant to play him in the playoffs as all coaches are to play rookies because they tighten up the rotations and value experience more than ever. These things must be taken into account with Copeland this season. Yes he is 29 but he is an NBA rookie. I expect huge strides from him as his defense will improve like most rookies do and his offense is so efficient that an increase in minutes should give him the opportunity to score 14-15 ppg and shoot 47/48% from the field and 40% or higher from 3-pt just like this season. So why i agree at the doghouse thing you mentioned, think about the life of an NBA rookie and factor that into the equation.

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Copeland was solid all season, very efficient scorer and was a key player to the huge run we made in march/april. He didn't just have one good game. Woodson has been reluctant to play him in the playoffs as all coaches are to play rookies because they tighten up the rotations and value experience more than ever. These things must be taken into account with Copeland this season. Yes he is 29 but he is an NBA rookie. I expect huge strides from him as his defense will improve like most rookies do and his offense is so efficient that an increase in minutes should give him the opportunity to score 14-15 ppg and shoot 47/48% from the field and 40% or higher from 3-pt just like this season. So why i agree at the doghouse thing you mentioned, think about the life of an NBA rookie and factor that into the equation.

smackeddog wrote:Who honestly thought while watching Cope in the summer league games, we'd be sat around talking about him being the difference between us winning and losing in the second round of the playoffs?

It's funny how people are saying he should replace Novak- Novak was last years Cope. If we do re-sign him, watch everyone turn against him by this time next year...

He's a much more complete player than Novak and has less NBA experience which means he should have more upside, for what it's worth. Novak is a shooter but Copeland is both shooter and scorer and hurts you less on defense.

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

not true. Cope became a regular rotation guy during the 2nd half of the season.

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Who honestly thought while watching Cope in the summer league games, we'd be sat around talking about him being the difference between us winning and losing in the second round of the playoffs?

It's funny how people are saying he should replace Novak- Novak was last years Cope. If we do re-sign him, watch everyone turn against him by this time next year...

He's a much more complete player than Novak and has less NBA experience which means he should have more upside, for what it's worth. Novak is a shooter but Copeland is both shooter and scorer and hurts you less on defense.

actually Cope has MORE basketball experience than Novak. He played professionally overseas for a few years before we got him. Not NBA experience but, it still counts and obviously helped him.

DurzoBlint wrote:

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

not true. Cope became a regular rotation guy during the 2nd half of the season.

What's not true?

holfresh wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

not true. Cope became a regular rotation guy during the 2nd half of the season.

What's not true?

Comparing him to Jorts is not correct. Copeland has been a regular rotation guy all season and averaged 9 ppg shooting huge percents from the field and from 3. Him losing his minutes was the result of shorter rotations and no nba experience. So i think he is referring to your overall opinion of Copeland being not true. People seem to forgot how key he was to the march/april run.

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

I dont remember it that way and wouldn't characterize Cope by saying he had 1 good game.

Cope didn't play much in March but went on a VERY nice offensive run in April and May, closed out the season strong. And the dude can score and proved himself from downtown: 42% from 3point land for the season and TS and eFG of 60%. Those are good numbers.

Cope was in doghouse in mid season but April/May should have carried over to or translated to playoff minutes.

Gotta rebound and know where and how to play D.

Look at his game log. Woody would play him 3 or 4 games and then sit him for almost the same amount of games.

During the 13 game win streak he got burn and towards the end of the season when things were already locked down.

He's a rook. I like the guy, (but then, I liked Balkman, too) but even a cursory glance at the highlights shows the guy has light years to go defensively. Most of the time, he looks lost.

No matter how you look at it, saying he's more valuable than JR going forward is ludicrous.

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

not true. Cope became a regular rotation guy during the 2nd half of the season.

What's not true?

Comparing him to Jorts is not correct. Copeland has been a regular rotation guy all season and averaged 9 ppg shooting huge percents from the field and from 3. Him losing his minutes was the result of shorter rotations and no nba experience. So i think he is referring to your overall opinion of Copeland being not true. People seem to forgot how key he was to the march/april run.

Jorts wasn't a regular rotation guy??..What opinion?? What did I say about Copeland that isn't true??

holfresh wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

not true. Cope became a regular rotation guy during the 2nd half of the season.

What's not true?

Jrodmc's post about Cope, not yours. Cope became a regular rotation guys in the 2nd half of the season. I think your right about Jorts.

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

I dont remember it that way and wouldn't characterize Cope by saying he had 1 good game.

Cope didn't play much in March but went on a VERY nice offensive run in April and May, closed out the season strong. And the dude can score and proved himself from downtown: 42% from 3point land for the season and TS and eFG of 60%. Those are good numbers.

Cope was in doghouse in mid season but April/May should have carried over to or translated to playoff minutes.

Gotta rebound and know where and how to play D.

Look at his game log. Woody would play him 3 or 4 games and then sit him for almost the same amount of games.

During the 13 game win streak he got burn and towards the end of the season when things were already locked down.

He's a rook. I like the guy, (but then, I liked Balkman, too) but even a cursory glance at the highlights shows the guy has light years to go defensively. Most of the time, he looks lost.

No matter how you look at it, saying he's more valuable than JR going forward is ludicrous.

I did and my response focused on April, May not early and mid season.

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

I dont remember it that way and wouldn't characterize Cope by saying he had 1 good game.

Cope didn't play much in March but went on a VERY nice offensive run in April and May, closed out the season strong. And the dude can score and proved himself from downtown: 42% from 3point land for the season and TS and eFG of 60%. Those are good numbers.

Cope was in doghouse in mid season but April/May should have carried over to or translated to playoff minutes.

Gotta rebound and know where and how to play D.

Look at his game log. Woody would play him 3 or 4 games and then sit him for almost the same amount of games.

During the 13 game win streak he got burn and towards the end of the season when things were already locked down.

He's a rook. I like the guy, (but then, I liked Balkman, too) but even a cursory glance at the highlights shows the guy has light years to go defensively. Most of the time, he looks lost.

No matter how you look at it, saying he's more valuable than JR going forward is ludicrous.

I did and my response focused on April, May not early and mid season.

yours martin and others. The lack of short term memory is funny. Wonder how many weed smokers we have posting

Copeland can ball but tall shooters always find a home here - the list is long which leads me to belive Copeland is replaceable. A legit 2G? They're very hard to come by, especially for the NYK

SupremeCommander wrote:no, but I love that we're having this conversation

Copeland can ball but tall shooters always find a home here - the list is long which leads me to belive Copeland is replaceable. A legit 2G? They're very hard to come by, especially for the NYK

Man Supreme, I have been praying for a real 2guard for a couple of years now. One that can actually shoot and handle the ball. That would end this tiny backcourt that has been exposed a few times. I hated seeing Felton matched up with Hill.

franco12 wrote:what the hell has Woodson been doing? Where has Copeland been all season?

There isn't enough minutes.....Plus he uses Cope's lack of defense as an excuse to make room for his vets....kid and amari

smackeddog wrote:Who honestly thought while watching Cope in the summer league games, we'd be sat around talking about him being the difference between us winning and losing in the second round of the playoffs?

It's funny how people are saying he should replace Novak- Novak was last years Cope. If we do re-sign him, watch everyone turn against him by this time next year...

I did....He's doing exactly what he's been doing. He's just stuck on a team full of vets, with a coach from the old school that depends on vets, and allows rookies to sit back and learn.

But given his offensive talent, and his Melo-lite knick name.....He instantly became one of my favorite knick players. I gravitate towards the under dog, and Cope / Pablo are my two favorite.

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

Amazing isn't it...Remember when Jorts score 14 points and grabbed like 10 boards...Folks wanted him starting over Amare...Cope hasn't experienced the hot lights of MSG and media scrutiny yet...Dude could fold like a bed sheet...Give the guy time to assimilate...

Starting Jorts over Amari would've been a great move.....Maybe Amari would've been a little healthier and hungrier for the playoffs. All these guys need is a chance and playing time. Once your confidence builds up, you're right there with the other guys. Cope was already a confident offensive player. Add in the fact that he's surrounded by old school vets. It's a perfect storm.

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

I dont remember it that way and wouldn't characterize Cope by saying he had 1 good game.

Cope didn't play much in March but went on a VERY nice offensive run in April and May, closed out the season strong. And the dude can score and proved himself from downtown: 42% from 3point land for the season and TS and eFG of 60%. Those are good numbers.

Cope was in doghouse in mid season but April/May should have carried over to or translated to playoff minutes.

Gotta rebound and know where and how to play D.

Look at his game log. Woody would play him 3 or 4 games and then sit him for almost the same amount of games.

During the 13 game win streak he got burn and towards the end of the season when things were already locked down.

He's a rook. I like the guy, (but then, I liked Balkman, too) but even a cursory glance at the highlights shows the guy has light years to go defensively. Most of the time, he looks lost.

No matter how you look at it, saying he's more valuable than JR going forward is ludicrous.

The entire roster looks lost defensively at times....Defense is not our strong point. It's offense. So if everybody sucks on defense, then why not play Cope? Because we have an old school coach that doesn't play rookies. Has nothing to do with his talent.

blkexec wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Here we go. Welcome to Alzheimers 101.

Copeland has a good game, or hit's one three, and automatically the "Woodson doesn't know how to coach" light comes on.
Cope was in the doghouse most of the latter part of the season due to his almost painfully obvious defensive woes. Does anyone remember any of that?

He was featured quite extensively early on in the season as Priggy's go to guy. Nice cameo; can you hear Grunny thinking in his head:
"hey other teams' GM's, are you watching this guy? Care to float us a draft pick for him at some point in time? And look, he doesn't seem to get hurt, either? Nice, low salary you can have..."

Now Cope is worth more than the SMOTY. SMH.

I dont remember it that way and wouldn't characterize Cope by saying he had 1 good game.

Cope didn't play much in March but went on a VERY nice offensive run in April and May, closed out the season strong. And the dude can score and proved himself from downtown: 42% from 3point land for the season and TS and eFG of 60%. Those are good numbers.

Cope was in doghouse in mid season but April/May should have carried over to or translated to playoff minutes.

Gotta rebound and know where and how to play D.

Look at his game log. Woody would play him 3 or 4 games and then sit him for almost the same amount of games.

During the 13 game win streak he got burn and towards the end of the season when things were already locked down.

He's a rook. I like the guy, (but then, I liked Balkman, too) but even a cursory glance at the highlights shows the guy has light years to go defensively. Most of the time, he looks lost.

No matter how you look at it, saying he's more valuable than JR going forward is ludicrous.

The entire roster looks lost defensively at times....Defense is not our strong point. It's offense. So if everybody sucks on defense, then why not play Cope? Because we have an old school coach that doesn't play rookies. Has nothing to do with his talent.

I'm with you. His lack of PT has less to do with defensive shortcomings and more to do with lack of experience and shorter rotations. I really believe he gets a consistant, major role next season as a starter next to Melo or 6th/7th man.