Knicks · melo says he needs help..Grunwald, dolan may have a problem (page 2)

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

AnubisADL wrote:Anyone with brain cells knows Melo has probably made it crystal clear to management that he needs help.

I dont read into Grunwalds public comments. They tried to dump Amare last year and they will likely try move Chandler this summer. Knicks depending on Amare to come back next season is comical at best. Amare hasnt been healthy the last 2 seasons. Expecting him to be healthy for a full season next year is foolish.

Knicks are going to have to take a step back next year to move forward.

there is a real good way of doing that, one that would not only make sense, but possibly get this train on the proper track...

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

that is the biggest problem right there, so I really don't understand how another big scorer is going to help here...

NYKBocker wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This domino effect really started when Dolan let Lin go. If we sign Lin from that gift ruling from the NBA then we would have Felton's salary slot open to sign a younger player. We could have been in play for ...

Jesus Shuttlesworth (Old but capable)
Chris Kaman
OJ Mayo
Matt Barnes
Pietrus
Gerald Wallace

We would have signed somebody other than KT and Camby. It's just mismanagement...as usual.

Lin is garbage tho.

Is George Hill garbage? Only saying this because Hill has identical numbers as Lin.

16.6 PER for Hill (above average) and 14.9 for Lin (slightly below average)

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

i would not take the job on ethical grounds LOL

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This domino effect really started when Dolan let Lin go. If we sign Lin from that gift ruling from the NBA then we would have Felton's salary slot open to sign a younger player. We could have been in play for ...

Jesus Shuttlesworth (Old but capable)
Chris Kaman
OJ Mayo
Matt Barnes
Pietrus
Gerald Wallace

We would have signed somebody other than KT and Camby. It's just mismanagement...as usual.

Lin is garbage tho.

Is George Hill garbage? Only saying this because Hill has identical numbers as Lin.

16.6 PER for Hill (above average) and 14.9 for Lin (slightly below average)

I do wonder what would have happen if Lin was getting benched in NY like he did in Houston.

Where can I find the ignore button? Some of these posters are straight clowns.

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

That is a vicious cycle.

Yes, and it has been obvious to some of us for a while.

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

That is a vicious cycle.

I see no evidence that shows this. At least back it up with something.

I don't really care what melo thinks we need anymore. That ship has sailed the minute he could not wait 3 months to sign with us. To sign him we would have had to only denounce Wilson Chandler and a bunch of bums instead of trading all our assests away.

The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

NYKBocker wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This domino effect really started when Dolan let Lin go. If we sign Lin from that gift ruling from the NBA then we would have Felton's salary slot open to sign a younger player. We could have been in play for ...

Jesus Shuttlesworth (Old but capable)
Chris Kaman
OJ Mayo
Matt Barnes
Pietrus
Gerald Wallace

We would have signed somebody other than KT and Camby. It's just mismanagement...as usual.

Lin is garbage tho.

Is George Hill garbage? Only saying this because Hill has identical numbers as Lin.

At 8 mil, Hill is garbage too. Spurs got the bette4r player on that one.

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

i would not take the job on ethical grounds LOL

EXACTLY... hahaha and that seems to be what is lacking in professional sports as a whole.... ethics...

Clean wrote:I don't really care what melo thinks we need anymore. That ship has sailed the minute he could not wait 3 months to sign with us. To sign him we would have had to only denounce Wilson Chandler and a bunch of bums instead of trading all our assests away.

pretty much how I feel....

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

Only issue? Your house is built on quicksand (Amare and his worthless contract) Amare was supposed to be the help too bad he's done.

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

Actually I have, and it comes down to this.. You want your money? then understand the ramifications of forcing a trade, or even trying to force your way out of a situation into a specific one.... then after you do that, live with the results and don't complain..

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

Only issue? Your house is built on quicksand (Amare and his worthless contract) Amare was supposed to be the help too bad he's done.

what does that have to do with me getting it painted.. I had enough money left actually have the house moved off the foundation and relocated if need be( which the knicks did even after signing amare, they had cap space, picks and young players).. instead of spending that money on that, I spent the rest of my budget adding more quicksand around the foundation( carmelo trade)...

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

Only issue? Your house is built on quicksand (Amare and his worthless contract) Amare was supposed to be the help too bad he's done.

what does that have to do with me getting it painted.. I had enough money left actually have the house moved off the foundation and relocated if need be( which the knicks did even after signing amare, they had cap space, picks and young players).. instead of spending that money on that, I spent the rest of my budget adding more quicksand around the foundation( carmelo trade)...

The point being no matter whom was available....nothing would have helped the Knicks with Amare and his garbage contract...if it's title or nothing.

The main problem is Amare is useless.

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Can Mark Berman please cite his "source."?

just once.

Nope he wants to see us squirm here on UK.

boeheim is a hypocritical douche, just another corrupt coaching cog comprising the ncaa conveyor belt. coaches are supposed to be mentors. where was he when melo was trying to put money before team? of course melo has no team-- he made sure of it!

exactly... these dudes are hilarous.. I pay them no mind man.. hypocrites, all of them!

TKF: hey DK

DK: wassup TKf

TKF: can you paint my house for me?

DK: sure, I will charge 3k

TKF: wow, Ok that was my complete budget, help included, you will have no help man

DK: well TKF, I am the best pure paitner out there, I want to get paid. regardless

Tkf: Ok, as long as you get it done bro

DK: OK

5 days later

TKF: DK, why isn't my house complete yet? I see mistakes and just a incomplete job

DK: what do you expect, I need help.

TKf: bangs head against wall...

Only issue? Your house is built on quicksand (Amare and his worthless contract) Amare was supposed to be the help too bad he's done.

what does that have to do with me getting it painted.. I had enough money left actually have the house moved off the foundation and relocated if need be( which the knicks did even after signing amare, they had cap space, picks and young players).. instead of spending that money on that, I spent the rest of my budget adding more quicksand around the foundation( carmelo trade)...

The point being no matter whom was available....nothing would have helped the Knicks with Amare and his garbage contract...if it's title or nothing.

The main problem is Amare is useless.

first of all that isn't true.. second, it was the moves after amare that is hurting us just as much... did we have to make any moves that involved a max player (other than chris paul or lebron) and one limited player( tyson) making killer money?

maybe a series of smaller moves would have given us a team similar to the pacers and bulls, with flexibility, youth and talent, and if amare knees had betrayed him, maybe use the amnesty on him, and keep it moving.. it is called having options..