Knicks · melo says he needs help..Grunwald, dolan may have a problem (page 4)

I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

TeamBall wrote:I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

In theory that works but when guys are bricking wide open shots these change. When the losses started racking up we went back to Melo ball because Melo is the only one who can reliably score buckets night in night out.

Woodson's job is to WIN games. If Melo gives him the best chance to that then he will keep riding Melo. Grunwald needs to get better pieces.

AnubisADL wrote:

TeamBall wrote:I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

In theory that works but when guys are bricking wide open shots these change. When the losses started racking up we went back to Melo ball because Melo is the only one who can reliably score buckets night in night out.

Woodson's job is to WIN games. If Melo gives him the best chance to that then he will keep riding Melo. Grunwald needs to get better pieces.

That also is a great point. We did have guys that simply disappeared in the playoffs. Now, I have no problem putting the ball in our best player's hands but I wish we did in a less predictable way. Our offense still had no motion. We had 3 players from our team criticize the lack of ball movement.

What kind of FA can we sign? I mean money wise.

Vet Min I would target...
Chris Douglas Roberts - SG/SF
Kyrylo Fesenko - C
Hassan Whiteside - C/PF
Jeremy Tyler -C/PF

For part of MLE I would target these 2. Split it up.
Patty Mills - PG (3 pt specialst)
Earl Clark - SF/PF

AnubisADL wrote:

TeamBall wrote:I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

In theory that works but when guys are bricking wide open shots these change. When the losses started racking up we went back to Melo ball because Melo is the only one who can reliably score buckets night in night out.

Woodson's job is to WIN games. If Melo gives him the best chance to that then he will keep riding Melo. Grunwald needs to get better pieces.

you use the regular season to build a team ethos and identity that is ready for the playoffs. that didn't take place and look what happened. it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win. the team would have been better served if woodson benched melo for being out of shape, or not giving it all on defense, or not making plays that keep others involved. in other words woodson is not teaching melo how to play basketball the right way.

all season long we kept hearing "a win is a win" from Team MElo. sounds pretty shallow now doesn't it?

it's never melo's fault.

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TeamBall wrote:I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

In theory that works but when guys are bricking wide open shots these change. When the losses started racking up we went back to Melo ball because Melo is the only one who can reliably score buckets night in night out.

Woodson's job is to WIN games. If Melo gives him the best chance to that then he will keep riding Melo. Grunwald needs to get better pieces.

SO that's what the ignore button would feel like.

NYKBocker wrote:What kind of FA can we sign? I mean money wise.

Vet Min I would target...
Chris Douglas Roberts - SG/SF
Kyrylo Fesenko - C
Hassan Whiteside - C/PF
Jeremy Tyler -C/PF

For part of MLE I would target these 2. Split it up.
Patty Mills - PG (3 pt specialst)
Earl Clark - SF/PF

I really like this list. What about JR though? According to his brother, they're both set to be re-signed. Does that take away some of these options (I have very little knowledge of the cap, contracts, and the knicks financial situation in general)?

Would anyone consider bringing back Darko?

Hersports85 wrote:Where can I find the ignore button? Some of these posters are straight clowns.

I feel you Hersports85, they would be so needed on the Brooklyn site.

If Melo wants help and he legitimately wants to win how about he doesnt max out his extension. U cant make 30 million a year and complain about help. Sign a cap friendly deal like 12-15 a year

Did Bernard King make others better around him, plain scorers do that they score.

What the Knicks needs is a dominant pg who calls the shots on the court.

AnubisADL wrote:

TeamBall wrote:I dont know what significant piece Melo thinks we can add but I do know that all the roster moves imaginable still doesnt let Woodson off the hook. I think one of the biggest improvement this team can have is for him to instill a team concept and run some more sets and plays while at the same time having faith in all of his guys to execute them. I believe he can do that - because he has before- but he has to do it consistently.

In theory that works but when guys are bricking wide open shots these change. When the losses started racking up we went back to Melo ball because Melo is the only one who can reliably score buckets night in night out.

Woodson's job is to WIN games. If Melo gives him the best chance to that then he will keep riding Melo. Grunwald needs to get better pieces.

That's why when you come to NY and coach , you better get paid because one way or another you are going to be the blame. Having veteran players mean something when they can still play on the court and has actually won something before.

That what's brings Melo back to earth in a team concept.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

Exactly right. And people are still asking for evidence of this!!!!

loweyecue wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

Exactly right. And people are still asking for evidence of this!!!!

so u have evidence Melo and stat don't work well offensively

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

dk7th wrote:you use the regular season to build a team ethos and identity that is ready for the playoffs. that didn't take place and look what happened. it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win. the team would have been better served if woodson benched melo for being out of shape, or not giving it all on defense, or not making plays that keep others involved. in other words woodson is not teaching melo how to play basketball the right way.

all season long we kept hearing "a win is a win" from Team MElo. sounds pretty shallow now doesn't it?

it's never melo's fault.

A win is a win dude.

Just because the Knicks are playing a style of basketball YOU do not like doesnt mean its the wrong style. You think Woodson wouldn't get fired if he lost the right way.

You just pulling stuff out of your ass at this point. Melo was out of shape? Melo was not giving his all on defense? How can you prove any of that? Oh wait, YOU CANT. Oh and last time I checked Melo isn't a PG.

Dude you trying too hard to discredit Melo and you aren't proving anything to anyone. If the Knicks win or lose you will still find something to complain about Melo. It's quite amusing at this point.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

Billiups didn't play off of Melo, if anything it was the other way round. What Melo needs is someone to tell him to quit whining and play ball and pass the damn thing when he is going 5-29 from the field. It's amazing enough that a paid professional making $20 M needs to be TOLD that - what we DON'T need is a bunch of people so in love with his talent tgat the forget we are trying to win a championship.

Has anyone mentioned D Cousins yet? He's a head case but a really good player. Would Sacramento take Tyson in a deal for Cousins? We'd probably have to include Shump.

loweyecue wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

Billiups didn't play off of Melo, if anything it was the other way round. What Melo needs is someone to tell him to quit whining and play ball and pass the damn thing when he is going 5-29 from the field. It's amazing enough that a paid professional making $20 M needs to be TOLD that - what we DON'T need is a bunch of people so in love with his talent tgat the forget we are trying to win a championship.

However you put it, he needs a guy like that, as does Durant, Lebron, Kobe etc. Doesn't make Melo an incomplete player or any less of a star. He's the best scorer in the league right now, maybe along with Durant. Durant has help and has yet to win it all, yet no one in OKC is trying to trade him and blow it up. I can only imagine Melo if he had a Westbrook and/or Harden as help.

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you use the regular season to build a team ethos and identity that is ready for the playoffs. that didn't take place and look what happened. it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win. the team would have been better served if woodson benched melo for being out of shape, or not giving it all on defense, or not making plays that keep others involved. in other words woodson is not teaching melo how to play basketball the right way.

all season long we kept hearing "a win is a win" from Team MElo. sounds pretty shallow now doesn't it?

it's never melo's fault.

A win is a win dude.

Just because the Knicks are playing a style of basketball YOU do not like doesnt mean its the wrong style. You think Woodson wouldn't get fired if he lost the right way.

You just pulling stuff out of your ass at this point. Melo was out of shape? Melo was not giving his all on defense? How can you prove any of that? Oh wait, YOU CANT. Oh and last time I checked Melo isn't a PG.

Dude you trying too hard to discredit Melo and you aren't proving anything to anyone. If the Knicks win or lose you will still find something to complain about Melo. It's quite amusing at this point.

He is just making stuff up at this point.

But getting back to the original topic, there are options out there. I still go back to Tyson for Bledsoe and Jordan, as i think Bledsoe can eventually fill that role of Billups in Denver and he and Shumpert would be a unreal defensive backcourt. Also, maybe look into Big Baby or Ilyasova, a couple of guys we could get for cheaper (this year's pick, Camby or Novak, white, etc) who can put up 15 and 8 and have a nice role at the 4.

Clean wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

Yeah there was free agency after that offseason. However, the owners locked the players out to reign in free agency first. You also are forgetting that in addition to the owners threats of a lockout and new labor agreement, the raps and cavs had just lost their franchise players for nothing. Denver was moving Melo before the deadline. If you have an issue with how the deal was negotiated that lies with the gm and possibly the owner if the inclusion of Moz has kept you up at night the past few years.
With some of the logic being used in this thread guys should be trashing Amare for forcing the Knicks to sign him to a five year deal when the docs were saying one or two more years left for his knees.