Knicks · Scout's take: Improving Carmelo Anthony (page 1)

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OFFENSE: Anthony is 29 years old. Next season will be his 11th in the league. At this point in his career, he is who he is on the offensive end. And that's not a bad thing.

"He's probably the best scorer in the game," the scout says. "So I don't know how much you're changing him at this point in his career."

Still, the scout says Anthony should think about improving as a facilitator next season. He made great strides as a passer in 2012-13, the scout notes, though they were not reflected in his statistics. Anthony's assist rate -- the percentage of field goals Anthony assisted on -- was down 7 percent last season compared to 2011-12.

But Anthony frequently made the pass that led to the pass that led to an open shot for the Knicks. And that's what people who get paid to analyze the game -- like our scout -- noticed most.

"If you were to count hockey assists, he would have a lot more assists. He doesn't get enough credit for that. He became a much better passer and he was much more unselfish," he says.

We mentioned the notion that Anthony could improve his passing when he drives to the rim, and also out of post-up situations. The scout agreed.

"If you had coaches show him every clip of when he can look out on a drive, there would be a lot of clips of that. He could get better at driving middle and kicking out to the wings when it’s open," he said.

This is an area (one of many) in which LeBron James excels.

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Source: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/

So basically what I've been saying all season.

not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

dk7th wrote:not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

The scout didnt watch most of the games?

If the scout said Melo was a chucker you'd be co-signing him. You are hilarious.

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

The scout didnt watch most of the games?

If the scout said Melo was a chucker you'd be co-signing him. You are hilarious.

Of course people will object to the more invalid claim but neither claim should be taken seriously if no supportive evidence is provided.

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

"Top" means you're great at it - you're at the top of the league. You'll have to score a lot and do so efficiently for that. "High" just means your point totals are high regardless of shot attempts. Unfortunately, many websites post lists of scoring totals - so it's easy for people to think that the high volume is all that matters.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

I think Bonn is referring to the volume of his shots and his efficiency but go to his ppp and it's pretty high and very efficient. It's very hard to have a usage as High as Melo's and stay efficient TS wise. His usuage needs to drop and hockey assist and regular assists needs to come up.

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

I think Bonn is referring to the volume of his shots and his efficiency but go to his ppp and it's pretty high and very efficient. It's very hard to have a usage as High as Melo's and stay efficient TS wise. His usuage needs to drop and hockey assist and regular assists needs to come up.

We just had this discussion in the "efficiency vs. effectiveness" thread. The available evidence indicates that there is only a very slight relationship between shot totals and efficiency.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

"Top" means you're great at it - you're at the top of the league. You'll have to score a lot and do so efficiently for that. "High" just means your point totals are high regardless of shot attempts. Unfortunately, many websites post lists of scoring totals - so it's easy for people to think that the high volume is all that matters.

Once you mention efficiency you're talking about shooting.

melo is a top 5 scorer, there should be debat on that.

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

I think Bonn is referring to the volume of his shots and his efficiency but go to his ppp and it's pretty high and very efficient. It's very hard to have a usage as High as Melo's and stay efficient TS wise. His usuage needs to drop and hockey assist and regular assists needs to come up.

Do they keep track of hockey assists?
I also agree. There are certain situations where he shows lack of trust in his teammates and lack of effort on the defensive end. I think he could fix both but he needs to be consistent with it.

TeamBall wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

I think Bonn is referring to the volume of his shots and his efficiency but go to his ppp and it's pretty high and very efficient. It's very hard to have a usage as High as Melo's and stay efficient TS wise. His usuage needs to drop and hockey assist and regular assists needs to come up.

Do they keep track of hockey assists?
I also agree. There are certain situations where he shows lack of trust in his teammates and lack of effort on the defensive end. I think he could fix both but he needs to be consistent with it.

Teams do. Teams keep track of all kinds of things. Some teams even keep track of what they call "Kobe assists". Basically when a guard or wing attacks the rim but misses the shot but because his attack on the rim drew the defending big it open up a easy put back for the offensive big

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

Melo shot more FT/game than Lebron did last season.

yellowboy90 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

I think Bonn is referring to the volume of his shots and his efficiency but go to his ppp and it's pretty high and very efficient. It's very hard to have a usage as High as Melo's and stay efficient TS wise. His usuage needs to drop and hockey assist and regular assists needs to come up.

Do they keep track of hockey assists?
I also agree. There are certain situations where he shows lack of trust in his teammates and lack of effort on the defensive end. I think he could fix both but he needs to be consistent with it.

Teams do. Teams keep track of all kinds of things. Some teams even keep track of what they call "Kobe assists". Basically when a guard or wing attacks the rim but misses the shot but because his attack on the rim drew the defending big it open up a easy put back for the offensive big

Ah you're right. I remember Durant saying their team kept track of hockey assists during the season. I remember Melo doing a very good job of this on a consistent basis in the beginning of the season. I dont know why it stopped.

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

The scout didnt watch most of the games?

If the scout said Melo was a chucker you'd be co-signing him. You are hilarious.

yeah unless i am mistaken they don't have john q public, an employee of the pacers, sit and watch knick games all season long, be they live or on tape.

why don't you enlighten me if i am mistaken.

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

The scout didnt watch most of the games?

If the scout said Melo was a chucker you'd be co-signing him. You are hilarious.

yeah unless i am mistaken they don't have john q public, an employee of the pacers, sit and watch knick games all season long, be they live or on tape.

why don't you enlighten me if i am mistaken.

How do you know the scout didnt watch most of the games?

That's why teams are employing analytical teams and buying sportsvu cameras to track and analyze things people on the couch do not see. I do not know the scout and what his job is.

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:not just you. the scout didn't watch most of the games. the hockey assist angle has validity only so far as melo does it consistently and especially in the playoffs. he didn't.

The scout didnt watch most of the games?

If the scout said Melo was a chucker you'd be co-signing him. You are hilarious.

yeah unless i am mistaken they don't have john q public, an employee of the pacers, sit and watch knick games all season long, be they live or on tape.

why don't you enlighten me if i am mistaken.

How do you know the scout didnt watch most of the games?

He doesnt know. He's just reaching as usual.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I honestly like Melo. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the nba. He is tough since he had to play at the 4 all year where he got beat up by centers and he never gets foul calls like lebron and durant get. However i have noticed even back from his days in denver that his overall game falls short of elite. look we know nobody is lebron. lebron is a one of a kind talent like mj or bird. I just wish melo's defense and ability to get others involved was better because if they were he would easily be a MVP.

He isn't one of the top 5 scorers. He's one of the 5 highest scorers.

care to explain the difference?

"Top" means you're great at it - you're at the top of the league. You'll have to score a lot and do so efficiently for that. "High" just means your point totals are high regardless of shot attempts. Unfortunately, many websites post lists of scoring totals - so it's easy for people to think that the high volume is all that matters.

Once you mention efficiency you're talking about shooting.

melo is a top 5 scorer, there should be debat on that.

If all you care about is volume, then yes.
If all you care about is efficiency, he's probably not top 100.
If you care about actually finding a useful way to weight both efficiency and volume, then there can actually be a meaningful discussion.