Knicks · Kidd Retires! (page 2)

When Felton got injured, Kidd stepped in to play PG, and having to take over the ball handling responsibilities and initiate offense, he got worn down. It was an awful move by Woody. It was obvious from the beginning Kidd wasn't a pg anymore, but a sg. Should've been Prigioni the whole time...

Andrew wrote:

New York Knickerbockers Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations and General Manager Glen Grunwald announced today that 10-time NBA All-Star guard Jason Kidd has retired from playing professional basketball.

“Jason’s value to the Knicks and the National Basketball Association cannot be quantified by statistics alone,” Grunwald said. “Everyone here in New York saw firsthand what a tremendous competitor he is and why Jason is considered to be one of the best point guards, and leaders, the game has ever seen.”

“My time in professional basketball has been an incredible journey, but one that must come to an end after 19 years,” Kidd said. “As I reflect on my time with the four teams I represented in the NBA, I look back fondly at every season and thank each every one of my teammates and coaches that joined me on the court.”

“Veteran leadership on and off the court was a huge factor for our team that recorded 54 victories and an Atlantic Division crown,” Head Coach Mike Woodson said. “Jason provided an incredible voice inside our lockerroom and I considered it an honor to say I coached him.”

Kidd, 6-4, 220-pounds, holds averages of 12.6 points, 8.7 assists. 6.3 rebounds and 1.93 steals with Dallas, Phoenix, New Jersey and New York. These Springfield-caliber career numbers have solidified his place among the greatest of the great in NBA history. On the League’s all-time leaders lists he ranks: second in season-appearances (19), sixth in games played (1,391), third in minutes (50,111), second in assists (12,091), second in steals (2,684), third in three-point field goals (1,988), 50th overall in rebounds and first overall amongst guards (8,725), 71st in points scored (17,529) and third in triple-doubles (107).

He appeared in 158 postseason games, averaging 12.9 points, 7.8 assists, 6.7 rebounds and 1.91 steals and led the Dallas Mavericks, along with current Knicks All-Star center Tyson Chandler, to the 2011 NBA Championship. He also is a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist, leading Team USA in 2000 at Sydney and in 2008 in Beijing. As a member of the New Jersey Nets, Kidd appeared in back-to-back NBA Finals in 2002 and 2003.

Kidd is a 10-time NBA All-Star (1996, 1998, 2000-04, 2007-08, 2010), a five-time All-NBA First-Team selection (1999-02, 2004) and earned All-NBA Second Team honors in 2003. He was named to the NBA’s All-Defensive First Team four times (1999, 2001, 2002, 2006) and Second Team five times (2000, 2003-05, 2007) and was the 1995 Co-Rookie of the Year. On Apr. 30, Kidd became the first-ever back-to-back recipient of the Joe Dumars Trophy presented to the 2012-13 NBA Sportsmanship Award winner, an honor voted-on by all current players.

In his first and only season with the Knicks, Kidd provided trademark backcourt leadership and stability both as a starter and off the bench. Recording averages of 6.0 points, 3.3 assists, 4.3 rebounds and 1.64 steals in 76 games, the San Francisco, CA native became just the third Knicks player to celebrate his 40th birthday in the orange and blue (joining Kurt Thomas and Herb Williams).

Thank God! At this stage in his career, he would be better a better coach than player. I hope he sticks around to mentor our pgs.

His play with New Jersey was incredible! True that his stats don't tell the whole story or even close!

It was a pleasure wathching him play in spurts this year.

Can we trade him?

Finestrg wrote:Nothing but respect to this guy -- GREAT PLAYER, GREAT CAREER.

Nothing but respect to this player. Very smart, always calm and collect, dedication to redevelop his game over the years and become 3rd all time in 3 pointers made. The game will miss him.

As a person...not sure he gets a ton of my respect.

Why would we buy him out? He's got a 3-year contract and decides he only wants to play one. Fair enough. His reasons are reasonable and he has tons of credibility. But don't come asking us for pay for a portion of years 2 and 3. He's the one who's breaking the terms of the contract. He should buy us out! Man, I'd like a contract that I can break and still get paid.

Andrew wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Good for the Knicks. Insurance picks up the last 2years of his contract, unless I am mistaken.

The question of his contract, cap hit etc have been discussed without a clear understanding of how exactly it all works. Maybe now we find out.

My understanding is if the Knicks want to still pay him, or agree to a buyout, any money paid counts vs the cap. I dont think insurance comes into play here.

Wonder if he will coach? If Mark Jackson can coach a playoff contender, JKidd should be able to.

Anyone think this this solidifies Grunny's ability to match whatever Pablo might fetch?

tkf wrote:No Surprise, both he and Grant hill.. Both great players, Too bad Grand had all of the injuries, but Kidd is a lock HOF player....

I knew he was done when he signed the deal and what transpired shortly afterwards....

I hope this helps our cap situation somewhat in regards to our Tax ThresHold....this could play a factor for S&T.

Now we need this BUM to GET TO STEPPIN too..

Sheed
Kidd
?
?

40 is not the new 30

Andrew wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Good for the Knicks. Insurance picks up the last 2years of his contract, unless I am mistaken.

The question of his contract, cap hit etc have been discussed without a clear understanding of how exactly it all works. Maybe now we find out.

My understanding is if the Knicks want to still pay him, or agree to a buyout, any money paid counts vs the cap. I dont think insurance comes into play here.

I seem to remember when Houston retired that insurance had picked up the remained which allowed New York to start the spending spree all over again

DurzoBlint wrote:

Andrew wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Good for the Knicks. Insurance picks up the last 2years of his contract, unless I am mistaken.

The question of his contract, cap hit etc have been discussed without a clear understanding of how exactly it all works. Maybe now we find out.

My understanding is if the Knicks want to still pay him, or agree to a buyout, any money paid counts vs the cap. I dont think insurance comes into play here.

I seem to remember when Houston retired that insurance had picked up the remained which allowed New York to start the spending spree all over again

It doesn't matter because Houston still counted against the cap. Probably the only thing that opened up is a roster spot.

So, are we off the hook for the salary or are we waiting for the buyout first?

Vmart wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Andrew wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Good for the Knicks. Insurance picks up the last 2years of his contract, unless I am mistaken.

The question of his contract, cap hit etc have been discussed without a clear understanding of how exactly it all works. Maybe now we find out.

My understanding is if the Knicks want to still pay him, or agree to a buyout, any money paid counts vs the cap. I dont think insurance comes into play here.

I seem to remember when Houston retired that insurance had picked up the remained which allowed New York to start the spending spree all over again

It doesn't matter because Houston still counted against the cap. Probably the only thing that opened up is a roster spot.

The knicks were liable for only 20% of his contract. I don't know if that was because of injury but, they got a major discount when he retired.

DurzoBlint wrote:

Andrew wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Good for the Knicks. Insurance picks up the last 2years of his contract, unless I am mistaken.

The question of his contract, cap hit etc have been discussed without a clear understanding of how exactly it all works. Maybe now we find out.

My understanding is if the Knicks want to still pay him, or agree to a buyout, any money paid counts vs the cap. I dont think insurance comes into play here.

I seem to remember when Houston retired that insurance had picked up the remained which allowed New York to start the spending spree all over again

There is a difference between retiring due to a career ending injury, and plain old retiring.

According to Coon, the guaranteed money is still due to Kidd even in retirement, unless they agree on a buyout:

“Most retirements before a player’s contract is up come in the form of a buyout. The reason for this is that while a guaranteed contract obligates the team to pay the player, it also requires the player to render his services as a professional basketball player…the compromise arrangement players & teams make is for the team to agree to let the player walk, while the player agrees to take less money. These buyout amounts then count against the team’s cap…For contracts signed under the current CBA the buyout is paid across two times the number of remaining seasons plus one (i.e., a contract with one year left is paid out over three years, and a contract with two years left is paid out over five), and the team can also elect to spread the cap hit out over those same years.”

A little more space.

kidd should become a coach for the knicks and take over eventually for woodson if he falters. Kidd knows basketball better then anyone

Kidd was signed to mentor Lin ,instead, his priorities changed

1- starting SG, to back up PG, to a player/coach that was unable to penetrate, defend a position, and was a liability on both OFF and DEF
He did have great hands for steals, decent rebounding, and when no one was defending him, he tried to push the ball before the defense could get set
In the end, he was unable to hit a shot (while whoever defended Pablo/Tyson, was always cheating on them), was unable to penetrate and/or run a PnR, but he is still a future HOFer

2- improve the team with BALL MOVEMENT, getting players to play TEAM BALL, and sharing his experience/leadership to the TEAM as a whole and guide/mentor Felton/Iman/JR/Melo
In the end, the offense was reverted back to Melo standing in one spot waiting for the ball to be delivered to him as the other 4 players on the court stood still and waiting for Melo to make a move, With JR, he was unable to get to the rim with Hibbert protecting it and the man Hibbert was defending was unable to pull him out or make him pay for cheating, instead JR reverted back to his 1v1, dribble dribble, off the dribble, step back jumper at a 30% or less rate

3- Baby sitting Melo and JR came with job, he was unable to change their poor habits/bad BB IQ, and add to their super hero strengths, in fact they attributed to his bald/shiny head, and Kidd in return influenced JR on being a drunk in the play offs and finding a future woman to beat on
Seriously though was hoping Kidd could have furthered the development of Iman Shumpert and improve his vision, facilitating skills, but with Melo NOT MOVING and standing still to receive the ball, there really isn't much he could do
Felton who is about 29 years old, isn't going to improve much while his development has more or less peaked
In fact, he more likely would be even worse, while he is a SG stuck in a PG's body, while without the speed/quickness needed to defend the PG
In his earlier years, he was able to hide his lack of PG skills with his athleticism/speed/strength but since he is nearing 30, his physical abilities are going to catch up more and more each year as he gets older

His leadership comes at a cost, at 3m per year for 3 years, and not including the taxes, while he is a liability in every other aspect
Considering we could have had Bayless at that price, it was a huge loss just because the ego issues were more important than talent
We now have one less dead weight on our roster and hopefully we can still keep his leadership as an assistant for us while saving a roster spot

With that said, let that dead weight be transferred to Chris Smith

yellowboy90 wrote:

According to Coon, the guaranteed money is still due to Kidd even in retirement, unless they agree on a buyout:

“Most retirements before a player’s contract is up come in the form of a buyout. The reason for this is that while a guaranteed contract obligates the team to pay the player, it also requires the player to render his services as a professional basketball player…the compromise arrangement players & teams make is for the team to agree to let the player walk, while the player agrees to take less money. These buyout amounts then count against the team’s cap…For contracts signed under the current CBA the buyout is paid across two times the number of remaining seasons plus one (i.e., a contract with one year left is paid out over three years, and a contract with two years left is paid out over five), and the team can also elect to spread the cap hit out over those same years.”

A little more space.

Hmm, I wonder if everyone will continue to tell my I'm wrong about his salary staying on the cap.

RonRon wrote:Kidd was signed to mentor Lin ,instead, his priorities changed

1- starting SG, to back up PG, to a player/coach that was unable to penetrate, defend a position, and was a liability on both OFF and DEF
He did have great hands for steals, decent rebounding, and when no one was defending him, he tried to push the ball before the defense could get set
In the end, he was unable to hit a shot (while whoever defended Pablo/Tyson, was always cheating on them), was unable to penetrate and/or run a PnR, but he is still a future HOFer

2- improve the team with BALL MOVEMENT, getting players to play TEAM BALL, and sharing his experience/leadership to the TEAM as a whole and guide/mentor Felton/Iman/JR/Melo
In the end, the offense was reverted back to Melo standing in one spot waiting for the ball to be delivered to him as the other 4 players on the court stood still and waiting for Melo to make a move, With JR, he was unable to get to the rim with Hibbert protecting it and the man Hibbert was defending was unable to pull him out or make him pay for cheating, instead JR reverted back to his 1v1, dribble dribble, off the dribble, step back jumper at a 30% or less rate

3- Baby sitting Melo and JR came with job, he was unable to change their poor habits/bad BB IQ, and add to their super hero strengths, in fact they attributed to his bald/shiny head, and Kidd in return influenced JR on being a drunk in the play offs and finding a future woman to beat on
Seriously though was hoping Kidd could have furthered the development of Iman Shumpert and improve his vision, facilitating skills, but with Melo NOT MOVING and standing still to receive the ball, there really isn't much he could do
Felton who is about 29 years old, isn't going to improve much while his development has more or less peaked
In fact, he more likely would be even worse, while he is a SG stuck in a PG's body, while without the speed/quickness needed to defend the PG
In his earlier years, he was able to hide his lack of PG skills with his athleticism/speed/strength but since he is nearing 30, his physical abilities are going to catch up more and more each year as he gets older

His leadership comes at a cost, at 3m per year for 3 years, and not including the taxes, while he is a liability in every other aspect
Considering we could have had Bayless at that price, it was a huge loss just because the ego issues were more important than talent
We now have one less dead weight on our roster and hopefully we can still keep his leadership as an assistant for us while saving a roster spot

With that said, let that dead weight be transferred to Chris Smith

Once again, saying a lot and very little at the same time.

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i disagree that he knew when to leave,

he should've left before this season, but he had so much class that he wanted to eek out another payday and drive drunk around long island,

yea, great career, but not sad to see him go.

my 2 cents.

Kidd was playing well for most of this season and was a big part of this teams success. Drunk or not he has infinitely more class than you have shown on this board, blob.

i disagree that he was a big part of the team's success this season,

maybe early on, but he went something like 200 minutes without a basket when it mattered most.

Felton credits Kidd for helping him have one of his best seasons ever, (sorry holfresh) and his 3pt shooting helped us win plenty of games. I was as disappointed in his playoff performance as anyone but that doesn't mean he didn't make a contribution to the team's success. Doesn't mean he should be disrespected like that.

+1 ...

VCoug wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

According to Coon, the guaranteed money is still due to Kidd even in retirement, unless they agree on a buyout:

“Most retirements before a player’s contract is up come in the form of a buyout. The reason for this is that while a guaranteed contract obligates the team to pay the player, it also requires the player to render his services as a professional basketball player…the compromise arrangement players & teams make is for the team to agree to let the player walk, while the player agrees to take less money. These buyout amounts then count against the team’s cap…For contracts signed under the current CBA the buyout is paid across two times the number of remaining seasons plus one (i.e., a contract with one year left is paid out over three years, and a contract with two years left is paid out over five), and the team can also elect to spread the cap hit out over those same years.”

A little more space.

Hmm, I wonder if everyone will continue to tell my I'm wrong about his salary staying on the cap.

But it says his buyout counts against the cap, not his salary.