Knicks · George Karl FIRED (page 6)
loweyecue wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.
Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody
He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!
Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.
BUT BUT...I thought you built dynasties in the mold of the young nuggets!
Youth and speed and ball movement and depth and...
WHAT!??!!
Both GM and Coach shown the door!!!
Well, there goes that theory...
The bubble is strong with this one.
What is this bubble you speak of?
TeamBall wrote:loweyecue wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.
Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody
He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!
Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.
BUT BUT...I thought you built dynasties in the mold of the young nuggets!
Youth and speed and ball movement and depth and...
WHAT!??!!
Both GM and Coach shown the door!!!
Well, there goes that theory...
The bubble is strong with this one.
What is this bubble you speak of?
The happy bubble, filled with blue, orange and white Homer gas, that makes Sombers and Melohaters all nervous and irritable.
Especially when one of their not-so-secret favorite franchises is taking a dump.
jrodmc wrote:TeamBall wrote:loweyecue wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.
Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody
He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!
Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.
BUT BUT...I thought you built dynasties in the mold of the young nuggets!
Youth and speed and ball movement and depth and...
WHAT!??!!
Both GM and Coach shown the door!!!
Well, there goes that theory...
The bubble is strong with this one.
What is this bubble you speak of?The happy bubble, filled with blue, orange and white Homer gas, that makes Sombers and Melohaters all nervous and irritable.
Especially when one of their not-so-secret favorite franchises is taking a dump.
I like the sound of that bubble. I dont know why loweyecue was making it sound so bad.
nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this. 
ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
Kemp in his prime makes Blake Griffin look average
ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.
They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.
nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.
Of course Payton was below Jordan, but as a player he was defenfinely a first teir player.
Kemp was one of the best forwards in the game, that team had versatility solid shooter and more than enough defense.
To not even make the WCF multiple times is criminal.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.
Of course Payton was below Jordan, but as a player he was defenfinely a first teir player.Kemp was one of the best forwards in the game, that team had versatility solid shooter and more than enough defense.
To not even make the WCF multiple times is criminal.
Your comments are too general with regard to how that team performed. It's one thing to say that under Karl the team played at a high level, but you have to really break it down to figure out if they didn't advance BECAUSE of Karl as opposed to just losing because of something the players didn't do. It would take much more research than i'm willing to do in order to determine that. All I know is that it's not a indication of poor coaching to lose in 6 to the Jordan Bulls in the NBA Finals!!! 6 times other teams and Coaches failed to beat the Jordan Bulls in the Finals, which only emphasizes my point about beating the leagues best player with a lesser team.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.
Of course Payton was below Jordan, but as a player he was defenfinely a first teir player.Kemp was one of the best forwards in the game, that team had versatility solid shooter and more than enough defense.
To not even make the WCF multiple times is criminal.
I don't think guys on here understand how good Gary Payton was. The guy was all time great.
Defensive Player of the year (1996)
9x all star
2x All NBA 1st Team
5x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
9x All NBA Defensive Team
NBA Steals Leader (1996)
he was ranked in the all-time NBA top 10 in many categories:
21st in points (21,813)
7th in assists (8,966)
3rd in steals (2,445)
7th in minutes played (47,117)
8th in games played (1,335)
15th in overall win shares (417)
Guys are treating Payton like he was just a run of the mill guard...he's in all time great territory!
A shame Karl couldn't do shyt with him, except for '96.
nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:nixluva wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's teamThis. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:
The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.
This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.
He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.
So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!
What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!
Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.
The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.
By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.
you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.
How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.
Of course Payton was below Jordan, but as a player he was defenfinely a first teir player.Kemp was one of the best forwards in the game, that team had versatility solid shooter and more than enough defense.
To not even make the WCF multiple times is criminal.
Your comments are too general with regard to how that team performed. It's one thing to say that under Karl the team played at a high level, but you have to really break it down to figure out if they didn't advance BECAUSE of Karl as opposed to just losing because of something the players didn't do. It would take much more research than i'm willing to do in order to determine that. All I know is that it's not a indication of poor coaching to lose in 6 to the Jordan Bulls in the NBA Finals!!! 6 times other teams and Coaches failed to beat the Jordan Bulls in the Finals, which only emphasizes my point about beating the leagues best player with a lesser team.
Only you are focusing in on one year, my point is that sonics team was good enough to get there ultiple times, and didn't get anywhere close.