Knicks · Reasons To Be Optimistic... (page 1)

1.) For all the negative spin about us not having players that make other players better, we sure have had a number of guys have breakout seasons that get vastly overpaid in their contract years e.g. Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak and soon enough, Chris Copeland; possibly Pablo Prigioni, Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. Even the guys that aren't overpaid, like Shawn Williams, have generated a healthy amount of league-wide interest in their services when there was none the season before. This trend should definitely encourage players to sign with us in hopes of improving their visibility/future earnings.

2.) With a supporting cast of players enrolled in the AARP, we still managed to win 54 games and make the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a little stroke of luck with our health, we should be able to duplicate that performance and surpass it.

3.) For all the talk of us lacking flexibility to make trades, we have the means to create sizeable trade exceptions to help re-tool on the fly. Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Marcus Camby's contracts total approximately $22 million and could net us a theoretical package for as much as $26 million. Upstart teams like the Blazers or teams that are deluded enough to think that they can make the playoffs (the Cavs), would willing trade for these 3 and have the cap space to not send back any contracts. In fact, there are 16 teams that can at least trade for either Novak or Camby without sending back contracts in return, which bodes well in our favor especially when considering that more than half won't sign their free agent targets and be forced to resort to plan B and C. Add to the fact that we have about $3 million in non-gauranteed contracts to also trade and I think it becomes difficult to contest the fact fact we have options.

4.) As much as Amar'e has been a dud for us, his contract is manageable enough to move to a team looking to gamble. A team like the Nets, with a win-now mandate and a GM with a history of poor, short-sighted decisions would be a perfect partner. It'll come at the cost of Shumpert and future assets but it could be worth it if we have a 2nd tier free agent we could target via a sign and trade. I could see something like Amare, Shumpert and future draft picks for Humphries, Marshon Brooks and either Gerald Wallace or contract filler working.

5.) We seem to have finally established a niche in the foreign markets. Although we could potentially lose a number of key contributors from last season but could easily replace them via this market. Our improved eye in the draft should also allow us to grab a key contributor at 24.

6.) We still have one of the best players in the league (Melo) who has consistently gotten lesser teams to the playoffs. If we ever put a decent no.2 player with him (Igoudala and/or Smith), we can easily make the 2nd round of the playoffs and probably the Conference Finals.

7.) Impact players are constantly waived midseason and is another avenue for us to improve our team.

We won 54 games with a team hampered with injuries and also a very inconsistent rotation/starting lineup partly because of the injuries. We need a few things to happen this season. We need Shumpert to improve, which i think he will. We need Amare to be healthier, even if its not 82 games. We need to pick up a couple guys who can be rotation players. And we need to find a rotation and stay with it. Woodson needs to decide if Amare is starting or not, and find his 9/10 guys to commit to. That will go along way in keeping this team to winning 50-60 games.

Reasons to be pessimistic. Thin at ph. Thin upfront. That is recipe for disaster

NardDogNation wrote:1.) For all the negative spin about us not having players that make other players better, we sure have had a number of guys have breakout seasons that get vastly overpaid in their contract years e.g. Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak and soon enough, Chris Copeland; possibly Pablo Prigioni, Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. Even the guys that aren't overpaid, like Shawn Williams, have generated a healthy amount of league-wide interest in their services when there was none the season before. This trend should definitely encourage players to sign with us in hopes of improving their visibility/future earnings.

2.) With a supporting cast of players enrolled in the AARP, we still managed to win 54 games and make the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a little stroke of luck with our health, we should be able to duplicate that performance and surpass it.

3.) For all the talk of us lacking flexibility to make trades, we have the means to create sizeable trade exceptions to help re-tool on the fly. Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Marcus Camby's contracts total approximately $22 million and could net us a theoretical package for as much as $26 million. Upstart teams like the Blazers or teams that are deluded enough to think that they can make the playoffs (the Cavs), would willing trade for these 3 and have the cap space to not send back any contracts. In fact, there are 16 teams that can at least trade for either Novak or Camby without sending back contracts in return, which bodes well in our favor especially when considering that more than half won't sign their free agent targets and be forced to resort to plan B and C.

4.) As much as Amar'e has been a dud for us, his contract is manageable enough to move to a team looking to gamble. A team like the Nets, with a win-now mandate and a GM with a history of poor, short-sighted decisions would be a perfect partner. It'll come at the cost of Shumpert and future assets but it could be worth it if we have a 2nd tier free agent we could target via a sign and trade. I could see something like Amare, Shumpert and future draft picks for Humphries, Marshon Brooks and either Gerald Wallace or contract filler working.

thank you for being optimistic but

1) shawne took more $ from the NETS instead of resigning with us, then had an injury plague season and they brought him out

2)the cavs are getting varejao back, and are probably drafting a big with there #1 pick and nobody on the cavs or balzers roster is worth going after for the likes of ty and shump

3)humphries and brooks were both bench for a good portion of the season because of there motor and lack of defense, wallace is ok but i would rather take my chance with Amare playing 65 games..

BRIGGS wrote:Reasons to be pessimistic. Thin at ph. Thin upfront. That is recipe for disaster

If we simply re-sign our free agents, depth wouldn't be an issue. For concern of the luxury tax, I'd look to sign and trade them while taking a look at the 2013 version of themselves the year before (on the out-and-out, bargain basement signings). Let's not also forget that the midseason waiver wire produces some pretty good rotation players. Guys like Chris Andersen, Kenyon Martin and Patrick Beverly had sizeable impacts with their new, playoff teams and I'm sure we can look forward to that this upcoming season if we can't find what we need in the offseason.

NardDogNation wrote:1.) For all the negative spin about us not having players that make other players better, we sure have had a number of guys have breakout seasons that get vastly overpaid in their contract years e.g. Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak and soon enough, Chris Copeland; possibly Pablo Prigioni, Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. Even the guys that aren't overpaid, like Shawn Williams, have generated a healthy amount of league-wide interest in their services when there was none the season before. This trend should definitely encourage players to sign with us in hopes of improving their visibility/future earnings.

2.) With a supporting cast of players enrolled in the AARP, we still managed to win 54 games and make the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a little stroke of luck with our health, we should be able to duplicate that performance and surpass it.

3.) For all the talk of us lacking flexibility to make trades, we have the means to create sizeable trade exceptions to help re-tool on the fly. Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Marcus Camby's contracts total approximately $22 million and could net us a theoretical package for as much as $26 million. Upstart teams like the Blazers or teams that are deluded enough to think that they can make the playoffs (the Cavs), would willing trade for these 3 and have the cap space to not send back any contracts. In fact, there are 16 teams that can at least trade for either Novak or Camby without sending back contracts in return, which bodes well in our favor especially when considering that more than half won't sign their free agent targets and be forced to resort to plan B and C. Add to the fact that we have about $3 million in non-gauranteed contracts to also trade and I think it becomes difficult to contest the fact fact we have options.

4.) As much as Amar'e has been a dud for us, his contract is manageable enough to move to a team looking to gamble. A team like the Nets, with a win-now mandate and a GM with a history of poor, short-sighted decisions would be a perfect partner. It'll come at the cost of Shumpert and future assets but it could be worth it if we have a 2nd tier free agent we could target via a sign and trade. I could see something like Amare, Shumpert and future draft picks for Humphries, Marshon Brooks and either Gerald Wallace or contract filler working.

5.) We seem to have finally established a niche in the foreign markets. Although we could potentially lose a number of key contributors from last season but could easily replace them via this market. Our improved eye in the draft should also allow us to grab a key contributor at 24.

6.) We still have one of the best players in the league (Melo) who has consistently gotten lesser teams to the playoffs. If we ever put a decent no.2 player with him (Igoudala and/or Smith), we can easily make the 2nd round of the playoffs and probably the Conference Finals.

Your banking on past trends to continue. I suppose there are other teams doing similar things that we are doing.

Last year we did it very well. JR Smith for the money was the best value in the.

Reasons to be pessimistic have not presented itself yet, as for optomistic future, we also know way too little to be there either.

Lets see what smith does, and how we draft.

Be nice to return our core and think Amare will give us 70 games and give us 15-7. Chandler was good last year, he just got the flu "Again"!

Its the bench, as Briggs said, our back ups are yet to be seen.

BRIGGS wrote:Reasons to be pessimistic. Thin at ph. Thin upfront. That is recipe for disaster

We have the draft and free agency to address each. Shouldn't be an issue.

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:1.) For all the negative spin about us not having players that make other players better, we sure have had a number of guys have breakout seasons that get vastly overpaid in their contract years e.g. Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak and soon enough, Chris Copeland; possibly Pablo Prigioni, Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. Even the guys that aren't overpaid, like Shawn Williams, have generated a healthy amount of league-wide interest in their services when there was none the season before. This trend should definitely encourage players to sign with us in hopes of improving their visibility/future earnings.

2.) With a supporting cast of players enrolled in the AARP, we still managed to win 54 games and make the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a little stroke of luck with our health, we should be able to duplicate that performance and surpass it.

3.) For all the talk of us lacking flexibility to make trades, we have the means to create sizeable trade exceptions to help re-tool on the fly. Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Marcus Camby's contracts total approximately $22 million and could net us a theoretical package for as much as $26 million. Upstart teams like the Blazers or teams that are deluded enough to think that they can make the playoffs (the Cavs), would willing trade for these 3 and have the cap space to not send back any contracts. In fact, there are 16 teams that can at least trade for either Novak or Camby without sending back contracts in return, which bodes well in our favor especially when considering that more than half won't sign their free agent targets and be forced to resort to plan B and C.

4.) As much as Amar'e has been a dud for us, his contract is manageable enough to move to a team looking to gamble. A team like the Nets, with a win-now mandate and a GM with a history of poor, short-sighted decisions would be a perfect partner. It'll come at the cost of Shumpert and future assets but it could be worth it if we have a 2nd tier free agent we could target via a sign and trade. I could see something like Amare, Shumpert and future draft picks for Humphries, Marshon Brooks and either Gerald Wallace or contract filler working.

thank you for being optimistic but

1) shawne took more $ from the NETS instead of resigning with us, then had an injury plague season and they brought him out

2)the cavs are getting varejao back, and are probably drafting a big with there #1 pick and nobody on the cavs or balzers roster is worth going after for the likes of ty and shump

3)humphries and brooks were both bench for a good portion of the season because of there motor and lack of defense, wallace is ok but i would rather take my chance with Amare playing 65 games..

Regardless of how Shawne Williams performed after leaving the NYK, he still had a breakout season with us that increased his visibility and future earnings. We have consistently managed to help do this with players, which should serve as an excellent recruitment tool.
About Chandler to POR, I wouldn't take anything back but draft picks. I'd only do this if we had a real shot at making a sign and trade for another 2nd tier player like Igoudala and/or Josh Smith; trade for Pau Gasol.
About Amare, I'd much rather trade him to the Nets and be done with him. He simply makes too much and is hampering our ability to bring in players that can help. In an offseason where so many teams have cap space, I'd immediately try to pedal off the smaller contracts we'd receive for more flexibility and an opportunity to build with this free agent class.

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:1.) For all the negative spin about us not having players that make other players better, we sure have had a number of guys have breakout seasons that get vastly overpaid in their contract years e.g. Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak and soon enough, Chris Copeland; possibly Pablo Prigioni, Kenyon Martin and JR Smith. Even the guys that aren't overpaid, like Shawn Williams, have generated a healthy amount of league-wide interest in their services when there was none the season before. This trend should definitely encourage players to sign with us in hopes of improving their visibility/future earnings.

2.) With a supporting cast of players enrolled in the AARP, we still managed to win 54 games and make the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a little stroke of luck with our health, we should be able to duplicate that performance and surpass it.

3.) For all the talk of us lacking flexibility to make trades, we have the means to create sizeable trade exceptions to help re-tool on the fly. Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Marcus Camby's contracts total approximately $22 million and could net us a theoretical package for as much as $26 million. Upstart teams like the Blazers or teams that are deluded enough to think that they can make the playoffs (the Cavs), would willing trade for these 3 and have the cap space to not send back any contracts. In fact, there are 16 teams that can at least trade for either Novak or Camby without sending back contracts in return, which bodes well in our favor especially when considering that more than half won't sign their free agent targets and be forced to resort to plan B and C. Add to the fact that we have about $3 million in non-gauranteed contracts to also trade and I think it becomes difficult to contest the fact fact we have options.

4.) As much as Amar'e has been a dud for us, his contract is manageable enough to move to a team looking to gamble. A team like the Nets, with a win-now mandate and a GM with a history of poor, short-sighted decisions would be a perfect partner. It'll come at the cost of Shumpert and future assets but it could be worth it if we have a 2nd tier free agent we could target via a sign and trade. I could see something like Amare, Shumpert and future draft picks for Humphries, Marshon Brooks and either Gerald Wallace or contract filler working.

5.) We seem to have finally established a niche in the foreign markets. Although we could potentially lose a number of key contributors from last season but could easily replace them via this market. Our improved eye in the draft should also allow us to grab a key contributor at 24.

6.) We still have one of the best players in the league (Melo) who has consistently gotten lesser teams to the playoffs. If we ever put a decent no.2 player with him (Igoudala and/or Smith), we can easily make the 2nd round of the playoffs and probably the Conference Finals.

Your banking on past trends to continue. I suppose there are other teams doing similar things that we are doing.

Last year we did it very well. JR Smith for the money was the best value in the.

Reasons to be pessimistic have not presented itself yet, as for optomistic future, we also know way too little to be there either.

Lets see what smith does, and how we draft.

Be nice to return our core and think Amare will give us 70 games and give us 15-7. Chandler was good last year, he just got the flu "Again"!

Its the bench, as Briggs said, our back ups are yet to be seen.

Fair assessment but I think it is because of past trends that we be optimistic even though so much is up in the air. We've consistently managed to beat the odds, so why should this season be different?

Where do you get the "tyson to portland stuff"?

Keeps coming up as if it was "Your" decision.

We are all about the here and now and taking on draft choices in most cases is a luxury one must make investments which need time.

To me, we can keep using our "credit cards" to keep this going but at some point we don't replenish the assets with a youthier mix we gonna pay a steep price. I agree with you but my take is we not trading Tyson. Limited as his offense is, I just don't see an higher upside in the short term.

I doubt we "rebuild" after a 54 win season.

Nalod wrote:Where do you get the "tyson to portland stuff"?

Keeps coming up as if it was "Your" decision.

We are all about the here and now and taking on draft choices in most cases is a luxury one must make investments which need time.

To me, we can keep using our "credit cards" to keep this going but at some point we don't replenish the assets with a youthier mix we gonna pay a steep price. I agree with you but my take is we not trading Tyson. Limited as his offense is, I just don't see an higher upside in the short term.

I doubt we "rebuild" after a 54 win season.

I endosed the Tyson Chandler to POR idea as many others have on this board. I think yellowboy came up with it but I didn't realize it would be a problem agreeing with the rationale behind (even though I initially hated the idea). I also believe we need to augment the roster with draft picks; something I directly mentioned trading Chandler for. I'm not sure how you got the opinion that I was suggesting anything different.

I'm no longer a fan of keeping Tyson Chandler. He is getting up their in age and I think his subpar play in the playoffs is indication of his game deteriorating. We already have to deal with Amare and can't afford to also have Chandler as deadweight on our payroll. I'd rather retool (and not rebuild) with one of the low hanging fruit in free agency (Josh Smith, etc.)

I am optimistic but no one is taking on Amare's deal. The Knicks have the worst contract in professional sports on their roster.

knicks fans are the best in the world IMO. we are very loyal but we also want to win. Yes it was nice to win 54 wins after 13 years of misery but this team underachieved the in the playoffs. We got off to a great 3-0 start vs the celtics and then we werent the same after that. i mean we almost blew a 3-0 series lead to boston without rondo. The pacers just bullied us.

CrushAlot wrote:I am optimistic but no one is taking on Amare's deal. The Knicks have the worst contract in professional sports on their roster.

At least its only for 2 more seasons. One more year of trying to fit him into the mix then next year he becomes a big expiring contract we will have options with.

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I am optimistic but no one is taking on Amare's deal. The Knicks have the worst contract in professional sports on their roster.

At least its only for 2 more seasons. One more year of trying to fit him into the mix then next year he becomes a big expiring contract we will have options with.

I think one of the reasons why we can trade him now is because he only has 2 more years left on his contract. The asking price for additional assets will be a little bit higher than if he were an expirer but I think it would be feasible especially with a team looking to make a splash/has big pockets like the Nets.

CrushAlot wrote:I am optimistic but no one is taking on Amare's deal. The Knicks have the worst contract in professional sports on their roster.

yes thus far, but I'm optimistic about Amare, and his contract is not the worst contract in sports, IT'S NOT EVEN THE WORST CONTRACT IN NY.... that my friend goes to AROD.

Tyson can be moved on draft day if the Knicks really want another pick. I dont see it unless we are getting a center back in return.

AnubisADL wrote:Tyson can be moved on draft day if the Knicks really want another pick. I dont see it unless we are getting a center back in return.

I agree. i mean the pacers abused us in the paint with Tyson imagine without Tyson

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Reasons to be pessimistic. Thin at ph. Thin upfront. That is recipe for disaster

We have the draft and free agency to address each. Shouldn't be an issue.

Let's revisit this on Thursday evening, after the draft. We'll talk about issues at that time

I wish I believed that Grunwald could really think creatively and outside the box and take a chance on making a deal of Tyson, Amar'e or Novak. I just don't know if he's going to be allowed to make a deal like that. of course it remains to be seen, but it's making me nervous.

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Reasons to be pessimistic. Thin at ph. Thin upfront. That is recipe for disaster

If we simply re-sign our free agents, depth wouldn't be an issue. For concern of the luxury tax, I'd look to sign and trade them while taking a look at the 2013 version of themselves the year before (on the out-and-out, bargain basement signings). Let's not also forget that the midseason waiver wire produces some pretty good rotation players. Guys like Chris Andersen, Kenyon Martin and Patrick Beverly had sizeable impacts with their new, playoff teams and I'm sure we can look forward to that this upcoming season if we can't find what we need in the offseason.

You want to re-sign the same FAs? So they can watch next years playoffs from the bench while dressed in suits? Camby is a bargain basement signing? How many minutes of PT did we get for the 5 Mil or whatever we are paying him? How about Rasheed should we waste a roster spot so he can retire again? (And he still is one my all time fav players). Kurt Thomas ?? - between the three of them they couldn't stay healthy for 40 total games.